BC Heli/Cat Operations 2023/24

Fri 1/5/2024 6:50 AM:

Small Groups Steep Chutes Program

We have 2 seats available for our January 8th to 11th trip, with arrival to the lodge on January 7th, which we are discounting $700/day!!!
 
Sat 1/6/2024 12:20 PM:

We have 2 seats available for our January 8th to 11th trip, with arrival to the lodge on January 7th (TOMORROW), which we are discounting $1000/day!!! 50% off!!

Pattern is established. Max discount is 50% on the day before lodge arrival.
 
I glanced at Mustang today. Nice amount of new snow (>10"), but ~2 feet below normal snowpack. Or stated differently ~3 weeks behind their normal settled snowpack curve for the season...
 
I've lost the plot on this thread. Correct me if I'm wrong:
The cat/heli ops have lost nothing -- all of their seats have been sold (?). What we're observing is: conditions are perceived to be so far below expectations that customers would prefer to cancel, have the ops sell off their reservations at a discount, and take a 50 to 75% loss?
 
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jamesdeluxe said:
I've lost the plot on this thread. Correct me if I'm wrong:
The cat/heli ops have lost nothing -- all of their seats have been sold (?). What we're observing is: conditions are perceived to be so far below expectations that customers would prefer to cancel, have the ops to sell off their reservations at a discount, and take a 50 to 75% loss?
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Likely or there may be other reasons they have canceled such as illness, injury, etc.
 
Skieric said:
Likely or there may be other reasons they have canceled such as illness, injury, etc.
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Once we're much into January, cancellations are definitely injury, illness, family emergencies etc. In December I suspect the ops were not full but were not getting the local bargain hunters (remembers those dates are already discounted vs. high season) due to conditions and thus discounted further.
have the ops to sell off their reservations at a discount, and take a 50 to 75% loss?
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Due to conditions? I doubt that. You know very little about conditions until about 2 weeks out, and if the base is adequate make that one week. The 201cm base right now is the same as the average Dec. 15-21, so Mustang is presumably skiing on about 15,000 acres, which is more than most cat operators have when fully open. Given that 201cm base and that weather so far in January is very favorable, I don't see that these Jan. 8-11 dates became available due to conditions, and whoever grabs them is not going to regret doing so.
 
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OpenSnow models say Island Lake (where Liz and I are going) has had 21 inches and Mustang (where EMSC and his brother are going) has had 24 inches since the high elevation rain at the end of January. I suspect particularly in Mustang's case that the models underestimate some of these snowy microclimates. I expect below average but not terrible conditions.
 
jamesdeluxe said:
I wonder what the incidence of below-average conditions is at BC cat/heli operations over the decades: a tiny percentage?
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My personal track record from 31 heli days and 87 snowcat days is only 6 with unpleasant conditions. There are another 16 which I would call mixed/variable. This can mean there's powder but shallow with a firm subsurface, bad weather constraining skiing to areas that are tracked out, less consistent or a significantly shortened day of skiing.

My seat-of-the-pants estimate before the above review was 85% excellent skiing. 11 of the 31 heli days were not in Canada, as were 5 of the 87 snowcat days. The Canadian snowcat days are nearly all remote lodges, often selected with snow reliability as a priority, so overall a biased upward sample. I would not tell anyone who signs up in advance for a day operation near resorts that they have an 85% probability of untracked/no subsurface powder.

I expect the upcoming 3 days to be added to that group of 16. I think EMSC at Mustang might do better. My 31 days at Mustang contain none of the unpleasant days and just one in that group of 16. My 17 days at Island Lake and my 16 days at Chatter Creek each have three in the variable group of 16.
 
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What classification would you put for my 3 days last year? Certainly mixed for day one and probably day two due to extreme constraints on terrain. Day three was much more normal though.

This year was pretty mixed surfaces for especially day 1 with day 2 better and day three being the best of the bunch again despite no new snow while there. I'll have to write it up later though. Huge amounts of stuff at work and at home to catch up on, unlike last year when I could post right away.
 
The objective of cat or heli and the reason for spending the $$$ is for untracked powder. The 6 bad days had zero powder and 16 subpar days had much of the powder degraded in some way: wind effect, hard subsurface or in case of day 1 for us this year mostly tracked out.

EMSC had the “ too much snow” scenario last year. While that may limit vertical and/or terrain selection I would not call that “subpar.”
 
I discovered my brother was invited on a 40th birthday cat skiing trip to Chatter Creek, BC (work/industry friends). It's a 4-Day Tour on March 1-5th, 2024, and I believe the group secured an entire cat. Curious how it will turn out. This group has been to Chatter Creek a few times previously, around early March.

My brother has yet to visit a more remote cat or heli lodge and operation. (Alaska is not quite in the same league lodge-wise. Food was good, but lodging was quite basic - either in Valdez or a rustic Lodge on a lake on the road to Thompson Pass).

Current conditions look a bit low tide, but there should be fresh snow during his trip. Try to get a report.

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He was going to try to ski Revelstoke and Kicking Horse before trip?!

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I have been to Chatter Creek 4x, 2007-2010. 2008 had probably the best conditions I've ever seen cat skiing. Chatter Creek is in the Rockies, a continental climate different from nearly all the other cat operators. That means light and dry snow and no rain. Chatter has more alpine terrain than any other cat operation. The downside of the continental climate is less snowfall and more wind effect and snow instability.

I'll be very interested to hear how much vertical ChrisC's brother's group gets. Chatter Creek's 50,000 acres are not efficient; it takes time to move from one sector to another. The truly epic conditions of Feb. 3, 2008 yielded 14K. Average over 16 days was 10,800 and we did not have slow skiers delaying the group.
 
Tony Crocker said:
I'll be very interested to hear how much vertical ChrisC's brother's group gets. Chatter Creek's 50,000 acres are not efficient; it takes time to move from one sector to another.
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Not sure who might record runs or vertical in his group.

Rough estimates +/- a few runs might be as good as it gets. His one co-worker might pay attention.
 
Run count is not a good estimate. The key reason vertical is usually more at Mustang is that the runs are generally longer.
 
Tony Crocker said:
Run count is not a good estimate.
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Yes, agree.

My brother writes nothing down - all talk.

I’ll see if his friend Adam records things. Skied with him in Japan and he actually did go out night skiing and went to the backside of Niseko onsen - then ski toured to the lift system.

Otherwise, they are a bit hopeless when it comes to any sort of record keeping - photos, runs, vertical, etc.
 
My brother was able to get on a standby heli seat at Eagle Pass Heli, Revelstoke. Before a Chatter Creek transfer soon.

Likely it will be trees, but with 5-10” forecasted today and 9” in the last 24 hrs and 33” in last 5 days - it should be good!
 
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Early morning Eagle Creek Heli photo.

In Alaska - you’re done! Find something else to do.
 
My brother seems impressed with Chatter Creek so far - likely helped by the 60 cm in the 2-3 days before arrival.

“Yep, found my first tree well of the trip. 60cm before we arrived. Best conditions of the season according to the guides. Got 10 yesterday after all the training (started at 10:30). Leaving at 8:30 so big day ahead. Tenure is crazy awesome.”



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Nice tree well!
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