Ski-Air Travel

[jamesdeluxe]

James a while back said he was able to score a full row in the back to sleep. This is very much a rarity in redeyes from LAX in my experience.

I was able to do that a majority of the time up through the pandemic and now it's similarly a rarity for me. Two likely reasons:

1. They're simply more efficient at filling planes these days. It's anecdotal of course but I can't recall the last time I took a flight that was less than 97% full, both domestically and to Europe.
2. They tend to spread passengers out in the premium economy section and flight attendants really police it these days to make sure that people in economy don't give themselves self-upgrades, which keeps entire rows of steerage seats from opening up.

 

[jimk]

On my 10 hour Delta flights to and from Utah-Europe in late January 2026 my wife and I luckily had an empty seat next to us both directions that we took full advantage of to spread out. We were in the cheap seats near back of plane that were assigned by the airline. I don't sleep well on overnight flights and still only got an hour or two of sleep either direction

 

[EMSC]

It's pretty amazing how different that different people can be for jetlag.

I'm not sure if it is due to my extensive and complex business travel over a lot of years but I don't really even notice time changes domestically (of course that's a max of two hour time change headed east for me).

Headed over the Atlantic pond I typically get 4-5 hrs of sleep which is enough to get me through the 1st day, though I get suddenly and wildly tired at ~5p and have to force myself to stay up til ~8-9p. If I force staying up that evening I'm good to go and on-schedule the rest of the trip. Headed home I simply stay up all day for the 'long day' of travel and while more tired than usual by bedtime, I have no other effects.

Headed west over the Pacific pond I have a similar experience to heading East to Europe (though with several sleep periods for maybe 7ish hours total on the flight). First day there I suddenly get crazy tired about 3p and suffer through dinner and the early evening, but then get back on track pretty quickly. However coming home from Asia for me is brutal, despite sleeping on the plane for a bit. I will wake up at 3-4a the first night and instantly KNOW that I will not be getting back to sleep. That middle of the night wake up shifts for me by ~1 hour each night for the next several nights (so 4-5a, then 5-6a, etc...). And by the time I wake up at my normal time of ~7-7:30a I have lost so much sleep that It still takes a couple more nights to get fully rested. Basically the better part of a week.

 

[berkshireskier]

For years, decades actually, I had hideous jet lag upon landing in Europe, usually because I was awake during the entire redeye. Then I figured out the way to sleep at least four hours.

Which is? I just don't sleep well (or at all) on airplanes, even with a lie flat seat. Just too much light and ambient noise and commotion in the cabin to be able to really sleep. It's not a conducive environment for me to sleep. Maybe I could try taking a sleeping pill.

 

[MarzNC]

Which is? I just don't sleep well (or at all) on airplanes, even with a lie flat seat. Just too much light and ambient noise and commotion in the cabin to be able to really sleep. It's not a conducive environment for me to sleep. Maybe I could try taking a sleeping pill.

I know people who take Benadryl or Melatonin when they fly.

I need dark more than anything else. So I always have good eye shades with me on flights.

Lately been using a Trtl neck wrap after trying assorted other options.

 

[MarzNC]

It's pretty amazing how different that different people can be for jetlag.

Headed west over the Pacific pond I have a similar experience to heading East to Europe (though with several sleep periods for maybe 7ish hours total on the flight). First day there I suddenly get crazy tired about 3p and suffer through dinner and the early evening, but then get back on track pretty quickly. However coming home from Asia for me is brutal, despite sleeping on the plane for a bit. I will wake up at 3-4a the first night and instantly KNOW that I will not be getting back to sleep. That middle of the night wake up shifts for me by ~1 hour each night for the next several nights (so 4-5a, then 5-6a, etc...). And by the time I wake up at my normal time of ~7-7:30a I have lost so much sleep that It still takes a couple more nights to get fully rested. Basically the better part of a week.

That's how flying to China from the east coast went for me. I would turn the long flight, usually from Detroit or Chicago, into two "short days." Idea was to get at least 4 hours of sleep after the first meal. Then stay awake the rest of the flight.

My father didn't worry about jet lag at all. For the trip when I went with him to Bejing when he was 90, we got to the hotel about 9:30pm local time. After a 5 hour delay leaving Detroit. He went to bed soon after we got into the room and slept through until about 7am the next morning. Meanwhile I was wide awake by 5:00am and went for a walk. He was always a good sleeper in general. My mother said that when he head hit the pillow, he would be asleep almost immediately. She always had sleep issues in general.

That trip in 2000 was when I first started using No JetLag. Found it in a local luggage store. Clearly helped shorten the jet lag period so since then I use it on any flight across an ocean. There is a competitor called No JetZone that is the same stuff.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Which is?

Sorry, I thought that I'd mentioned it before. It's a variant of what Germans call "Sauf und Lauf," which basically translates to booze (the verb) and cruise (the verb i.e. to walk). It's often used in apres-ski establishments when they're recommending that you not drive after imbibing. My far from innovative method is to have dinner and a few drinks in the airport lounge, take a sleeping pill while boarding the plane, don a travel pillow to keep my head upright, and then cover up with a sleep mask, a light fabric COVID mask, and earplugs (avoiding beverages and dinner, which isn't worth staying up for unless you're in business class).

Yes, it's a bit of a mummy (or Claude Rains) effect but it works for me and I don't care what other people think because I'll be skiing on arrival day!

I just don't sleep well (or at all) on airplanes, even with a lie flat seat. Just too much light and ambient noise and commotion in the cabin to be able to really sleep. It's not a conducive environment for me to sleep. Maybe I could try taking a sleeping pill.

Not sure how you can't sleep on a flat seat! Try a sleep mask and ear plugs?

 

[Tony Crocker]

Does James' method still work for him without a flat seat?

I'm not consistent. About half the time my experience is like EMSC's, the other times more erratic, "shallow sleep" off and on for 2-3 hours. Liz really needs a good seat setup to get decent sleep on a plane, usually meaning lie flat. But the Emirates A380 seats a year ago were just spacious enough for her to get a decent 5-6 hours.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Does James' method still work for him without a flat seat?

LOL, I've only been in a lie-flat seat one time! Lying flat across three seats is far better than being upright, but a long way from a business class seat.

"shallow sleep"

Yes, that is a thing and very unsatisfying; however, when it happens to me (about a third of the time) my body seems to recognize it as sleep given that I can ski the next day. On our recent trip, my wife and I were on-snow from 10 am to 4 pm, although that may be at least partially due to the extraordinary experience provided by the Skiwelt!

 

[Tony Crocker]

Lying flat across three seats

is lie flat as far as I'm concerned, even though it didn't work that well for me when we paid $200 apiece for it flying Frankfurt - Johannesburg in 2024. But Liz said it was well worth it for her. The other time we got it (for free) was Perth - Melbourne in 2023, both slept soundly the whole time though only a 3.5 hour flight.

 

[Sbooker]

I don’t suffer greatly from jet lag as I almost always get at least 6 hours sleep crossing the Pacific or at least 8 hours going to Europe.
My method is to wait until after meal service then take a 5mg Valium, don the eye mask and ear plugs and lay the seat back the 15 degrees.
I like the suggestion by James to wear the face mask. The dry air in planes messes with my sinuses. I’m going to try that.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

All this discussion about the horror of not sleeping on planes reminds me of the famous Louis C.K. bit (starts at 2:00):

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Also this one:

 

[jamesdeluxe]

On our recent trip, my wife and I were on-snow from 10 am to 4 pm, although that may be at least partially due to the extraordinary experience provided by the Skiwelt!

Final note: my wife barely slept a half hour on the flight over (she binged several seasons of The Office/U.S. version) and didn't have any issues during our full day at the Skiwelt so apparently some people have superhuman powers to reject jet lag. That said; she crashed at 5 pm after checking into our lodging. I made it until 7:30.

Related: someone asked offline why we used Munich as our gateway airport rather than convenient Innsbruck, about ten minutes from our lodging. Here's why:

• The FF award to Innsbruck was 90K miles as opposed to 50K at Munich and we don't have a monster war chest of miles.
• The earliest arrival in Innsbruck was 1:55 pm (thus eliminating arrival-day skiing) as opposed to our 6:30 am landing in Munich.
• We would've had to change planes in Frankfurt or Vienna, which raises the likelihood of delayed baggage.
• We would've had to fly partner airlines Lufthansa or Austrian Airlines and if you're using a United award, they'll hit you for a $75 baggage fee in both directions.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Not superhuman. When you get out on the snow you are active. But when you stop you will probably get sleepy right away.

Early to mid afternoon is when I’m likely to zone out on arrival day if I’m not active.