Europe 26/27

[Sbooker]

Sorry to be out of the blocks early but I’ve got many moving parts for our trip next year as the two kids and their partners will be meeting us for a week. (The two partners haven’t seen snow yet so I’ll have to pick somewhere for that week that will be suitable for beginners doing lessons).
The main question though is relating to the end of our trip. We will go to Cham for the specific purpose of me doing the Vallee Blanche with Kylie. There’s no way I’ll get her to agree to descend that ridge in anything but nice fine weather. I can’t allow a full week in Cham because we will have been in other destations prior. Given normal weather patterns would three days/four nights be enough to score a clear day given normal weather patterns at the end of March? I won’t be able to leave the previous destination early as I’ll commit to a half days guided week with Snoworks while the kids are in ski school.

The priority for the trip is spending some time skiing with my kids for the first time since January 2025 and getting the partners past the pizza/french fry stage.

 

[ChrisC]

Given normal weather patterns would three days/four nights be enough to score a clear day given normal weather patterns at the end of March?

This seems like a reasonable expectation. @jimk spent a similar amount of time in Chamonix with good results: https://www.skitalk.com/ams/skiing-the-vallee-blanche-in-chamonix-france.374/

Again, the issue is that the popularity of the Vallee Blanche increases as one gets into Spring, since all the crevasses are filled in, and it offers some of the best and highest-elevation skiing in the Chamonix Valley. In January/February, you can game/bet on the weather and book maybe a week out or less (less so on the weekends). However, by March, many guiding outfits will book up weeks in advance, and you will not really get to choose a fair-weather window. Maybe some last-minute availability? The guides will not take you up there in truly inclement weather (high winds close the cable car, snow can prevent guided groups from going out). In short, the weather will be decent. IDK Kylie's comfort zone, but I hope @jimk conditions would suffice. I am not sure how accommodating guides are to only skiing/showing up for "Goldilocks'/excellent/perfect ski conditions.

Frankly, I would schedule Day 1 for the Vallee Blanche in Chamonix and work with any guide company to reschedule the date if the weather does not cooperate. Not sure. Again, one starts competing with non-skiing tourists for Cable Car reservation times in Spring.

Alternatively, you could forget/miss Chamonix's Aiguille du Midi arete and use Courmayeur's Skyway to Point Helbronner to access the Vallee Blanche (no ropes, no crampons, no heights). I did this after a morning on the frontside Youla Glacier via Skyway and skied the Vallee Noir variant (steeper, less-skied) with a guide. However, you then have to figure out a guide (Courmayeur-based? Chamonix-based? likely not part of a group) and a bus ride (cab $$?) from Chamonix to Courmayeur.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Frankly, I would schedule Day 1 for the Vallee Blanche in Chamonix and work with any guide company to reschedule the date if the weather does not cooperate.

This seems like the correct advice. Late March should be more filled in and less sketchy than what Jimk reported, surely within Kylie's comfort zone from a skiing perspective more like Liz and I had in 2018.

In short, weather will be decent.

I agree. Guides surely won't commit to a 5-6 hour day with significant odds of bad visibility as there are crevasses and no bright colored piste markers. Make the reservation well in advance; worst case you will be refunded if weather is bad.

 

[Sbooker]

Thanks for the above comments. I'll be sure to book ahead for the VB. I didn't think that would be needed to be honest.

Because I am shelling out for 6 airfares I want to book early for the best price so I'm trying to work this out now. The first week will be just me and Kylie so we can leave that until last minute. Because there are six of us for the second week I'll want to book lodging in advance in a ski area that is very suitable to the two that have never seen snow and is also suitable to my kids who haven't skied in a while but are relatively proficient. I'll need that area to marry up with somewhere that I might be able to join a guided group for a few half days. I'm thinking Tignes but have reservations for the beginners who will be in ski school if there is a couple of days of snow. A lack of visibility could make learning that bit more difficult. Maybe Les Arcs might be better because there is a lot more tree cover?

We'll be driving but the kids will meet us and will be using public transport.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Because I am shelling out for 6 airfares

Gah! I'm sure you're glad to do it for people you care about but at the same time I know how much that must hurt a fellow cheapskate.

I mentioned recently how dedicated you two are to fly brutal distances on your two typical destinations so I checked your options:

Brisbane (BNE) to Geneva (GVA)

• Total Travel Time: 24 to 30+ hours (including layovers)
• Typical Route: No direct flights exist. You will typically have 1-2 layovers. The most common paths route through major Middle Eastern hubs like Doha (via Qatar Airways) or Dubai (via Emirates).

Brisbane (BNE) to Salt Lake City (SLC)

• Total Travel Time: 15 to 20+ hours (including layovers)
• Typical Route: No direct flights exist. You will usually have 1-2 layovers, with common transfer hubs including West Coast US cities (like Los Angeles or San Francisco), Canada (Vancouver), or other domestic US cities. Airlines servicing this route include Qantas, Virgin Australia, and various US carriers.

If I were you, I'd go to Japan more often like many of your compatriots. In addition to the flight-time and reckoned (look at me using Aussie speak!) cost savings, there's no jet lag with the one-hour time difference. All of those combined would be huge to me.

 

[ChrisC]

I'll be sure to book ahead for the VB. I didn't think that would be needed to be honest.

I find that if I want a guided group in St. Anton, Val d'Isere, Andermatt, etc., I need to book ahead - 4 weeks - or I might not get my dates (It's either a $125-150 group spot vs. a $600-800 guide; the math incentivizes me to book).

Again, everything changes once you are in the resort - people get injured, canceled, guides want to work, etc, and sometimes last-minute spaces open up. One can find something, but would not rely on it. Spend thousands $$$ and get cheap and sloppy on a 'guide fee' which can make or break your trip? (Again, Vail/Alterra have collectively trained US skiers to spend $200-300/day on a lift ticket, with signage handling navigation and ski patrol handling collective safety. It's a minimum of $1-1.5k per year, and maybe one can drive down the price and feel good to $50/day. Total economies of scale. Meanwhile, Europe is the opposite model - a bare bones lift ticket, and a hired guide does safety and navigation for off-piste navigation.)

If you went the private route, which is a consideration, since you can pace yourself/sightsee/etc, pay a reduced rate for Vallee Blanche only, and do not have to deal with clueless, over-their-head skiers (who might hear Vallee Blanche is intermediate and expect a Vail cruiser). Assume 5-10%+ of Vallee Blanche skiers over-rate themselves. Mostly, it's tolerable since the scenery is great, and it's not a race. Expect this always to be an option, even at the last minute.

Again, I have never skied the Aiguille du Midi in March, but I have been told by guides that it's prime season: snow, crowds, weather, etc. Also, the off-piste itineraries that descend under the cable car come into play: Glacier Ronde, Cosmiques, etc. (which are much more difficult than the Grand Envers, Petit Envers, etc. routes).

Note: If one looks at current Aiguille cable care bookings, most days this summer over the next month are booked from 8-11 am. Tourists can choose 7 am or the afternoon (when clouds roll in).


Again, Italy is cheaper (the guide fee), and you can generally hire a guide for a day in Courmayeur on short notice. Valle Blanche access from Skyway Monte Bianco/Punta Hebronner. No crampons, no arete, no skis on pack....no fuss.

I only rode the cable car to Aiguille du Midi in 2024 because there was no way in hell my partner and friends were going to hike out of Mer de Glace for 20-30 minutes to catch the train back to Chamonix. Moguls, powder, guides (who function as entertainment/instructor/navigator) - great. Paying for a lift ticket and hiking - no! The problem was solved in late 2024 when the new Gondola at the level of the receded glacier finally opened.

I'm thinking Tignes but have reservations for the beginners who will be in ski school if there is a couple of days of snow. A lack of visibility could make learning that bit more difficult. Maybe Les Arcs might be better because there is a lot more tree cover?

Yes, Arc 1650 and 1800 have more trees. Arc 2000 - not really.

Although I have no idea, sometimes a beginner sees snowfall and says, "Not today!" A fire and hot chocolate are on order. The beginner/low-intermediate terrain at elevation, specifically Val d'Isere/Tignes' Bellevarde or Solaise, always looks ideal to me: gentle, sunny, good snow, and lodges.

I always brought/taught friends at Squaw Valley 8200 - same (high altitude, better snow, aesthetics). Versus crowded, hidden, beginner runs at Northstar. Frankly, while a much easier mountain, I think Northstar is a totally lacking experience for a beginner skier.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Because I am shelling out for 6 airfares

This is why I at sbooker's reluctance to rent skis on powder days.

If I were you, I'd go to Japan more often like many of your compatriots.

That would be in January. Sbooker has scheduled this trip for late March, which might be the only time all 6 people are available.

Italy is cheaper (the guide fee)

Yes, but if staying in Chamonix you're doing a round trip through the Mont Blanc tunnel.

A lack of visibility could make learning that bit more difficult. Maybe Les Arcs might be better because there is a lot more tree cover?

This is late March, like our 2022 trip. Lower slopes could be bulletproof in the morning and slop later on (Arc 1600 and 1800). Or starting to lose cover (Les Menuires and Meribel). In spring you have to to roll the dice with the visibility and opt for the more reliable snow surfaces.

sometimes a beginner sees snowfall and says, "Not today!"

True, but beginners REALLY don't like icy snow and those lessons will start at 9AM!

I'm thinking Tignes

Reasonable, but for the overall composition of your group, Val Thorens might be better. It's less expert-weighted, and after a day or two of guiding you can navigate a lot of the off-piste on your own, assuming a relatively safe avalanche rating.

 

[Sbooker]

Gah! I'm sure you're glad to do it for people you care about but at the same time I know how much that must hurt a fellow cheapskate.

Thanks for the condolences. To be clear I'm only paying for their airfares and the accommodation for the week they are with us. Maybe I'll shout the newbies the lessons. They rest is on them. Both 'couples' will be going other places in Europe before and/or after.
They are all good kids and it will be fantastic to ski with my two again and perhaps get the other two into snow sports.

If I were you, I'd go to Japan more often like many of your compatriots. In addition to the flight-time and reckoned (look at me using Aussie speak!) cost savings, there's no jet lag with the one-hour time difference. All of those combined would be huge to me.

Kylie and Myself plan to ski in Japan semi regularly in the future. The reasons I'm opting for France for next year is -
1. The kids have a hard road ahead of them financially and it is more expensive to go to (and ski) Europe so I'll try to give them that experience that they may not get again in the future. They will be a better chance to be able to take themselves to Japan in the future.
2. My daughter and my wife have an interest in the language. My daughter hasn't been to France in a few years.
3. The kids will be able to go other places in Europe before or after the trip. They might not get that chance again anytime soon.
4. March is the best time work wise for my lad as January is a busy time for the business he works for. Japan and March don't go as well together generally for ski conditions.
5. Two of the kids have never seen proper mountains. (Even the Aussie Snowy variety). In my opinion the really big pointy mountains are the most impressive.

I find that if I want a guided group in St. Anton, Val d'Isere, Andermatt, etc., I need to book ahead - 4 weeks - or I might not get my dates (It's either a $125-150 group spot vs. a $600-800 guide; the math incentivizes me to book).

I love the Snoworks weeks because of this. They are fantastic value. Unfortunately they don't have anything that is perfectly suitable for my dates next year. They have full day 'backcountry' in Les Arcs but I won't be able to ski with the kids if I do full days.

and do not have to deal with clueless, over-their-head skiers

Cough. That would be me. The only thing a dislike about group guiding is that I sometimes feel I'm holding better skiers back. I have bad memories of a day in Courmayeur when guides took the group into very sketchy terrain and conditions and I really struggled.......myself and another English fellow definitely were handbrakes.

Again, Italy is cheaper (the guide fee), and you can generally hire a guide for a day in Courmayeur on short notice. Valle Blanche access from Skyway Monte Bianco/Punta Hebronner. No crampons, no arete, no skis on pack....no fuss.

Interesting. I'll consider that. Thanks.

The beginner/low-intermediate terrain at elevation, specifically Val d'Isere/Tignes' Bellevarde or Solaise, always looks ideal to me: gentle, sunny, good snow, and lodges.

Couldn't agree more. If there are better beginner runs anywhere on the planet than those under the Borsat lift on the Tignes/Val border I don't know about them. Wide, gentle pitch, superb scenery.

This is why I at sbooker's reluctance to rent skis on powder days.

What can I say. I'm a contradiction. But to defend myself I will point out that Kylie is tighter than me and in the past it has been her decision not to rent fat skis.

That would be in January. Sbooker has scheduled this trip for late March, which might be the only time all 6 people are available.

You assumed correctly.

Yes, but if staying in Chamonix you're doing a round trip through the Mont Blanc tunnel.

There's a bus that costs 15 Euro one way apparently.

This is late March, like our 2022 trip. Lower slopes could be bulletproof in the morning and slop later on (Arc 1600 and 1800). Or starting to lose cover (Les Menuires and Meribel). In spring you have to to roll the dice with the visibility and opt for the more reliable snow surfaces.

Fair point. I was figuring Les Arcs would offer cover in the event of a storm above Arc 1800..............

Reasonable, but for the overall composition of your group, Val Thorens might be better. It's less expert-weighted, and after a day or two of guiding you can navigate a lot of the off-piste on your own, assuming a relatively safe avalanche rating.

I hadn't really considered that to be honest as I didn't really like the feel of the village when I stayed there with Snowheads. But it's a good call. Kylie has not skied Three Vallees so it would tick that box too.

 

[Tony Crocker]

There's a bus that costs 15 Euro one way apparently.

Yes, and I should have realized you're only taking it one way if skiing Vallee Blanche from that side.