Mt Shutt.
Oz/NZ 2025
- Thread starter Sbooker
- Start date
This from a local of the NSW ski hills on the Aussie ski forum just now. Suggesting Spencer’s Creek is no longer a reliable indicator of snow conditions. Under-
Personally as long as the prevailing wind is from the west I couldn't care less what it does on the alps. I don't ever wanna see another high pressure, easterly-dominated winter like 2024 ever again. May it rest in pieces.
From a weather enthusiast's perspective it is infuriating that we can't seem to get snowfalls below 800 m anymore in NSW (and I mean snowsnow, not glorified sleet showers). In the 2000s & 10s this used to be a common altitude for snow and even heavy snow at times, with reliable flurries to 600 m. I know youse hear it so often but it really is sad what we've lost. Peak snow depth @ Spencers doesn't even begin to scratch the surface.
The comparison with Pacific Northwest is not appropriate. The worst location Government Camp in the PNW is comparable to the best location Spencer's Creek in Australia. There is lots of Northwest skiing thousands of feet higher than Government Camp. Spencer's Creek represents the highest possible skiing in Australia.
I may have heard that nickname way back on my first visit in 1982.
Could say the same for ski resorts with slopeside lodging in New England (VT, NH, ME) during holiday periods. Especially true for Christmas week. Of course, there are families that shell out the money since that's the only times their kids are available to travel more than a couple hours away from home to hit the slopes.
I believe sbooker suggests that it's not only holiday periods that lodging in Aussie ski resorts is expensive. Several years ago he posted some examples and they were indeed in the Aspen/Vail range. I'm sure Patrick commuted, but I don't recall from what distance.
Thredbo for 4 midweek nights next week. Not school holidays. 2 people.
Lunacy. I paid 20% of those lower prices when I stayed on snow at Tignes last March.
It could be argued that Tignes is a better ski hill than Thredbo too.
ChrisC
Well-known member
I tried to price out Aussie skiing last year out of curiosity, preliminarily:
It appeared a visit to New Zealand would be easier. A layover in Auckland and a flight to Queenstown. One could ski on both the North & South Islands and add other activities.
- Relatively high lift tickets - greater than Europe/Japan/NZ/South America
- Fees for parking and/or National Park usage? Unclear to me.
- Very high lodging costs
- Long drives to ski resorts
- Resorts are spread out
- Smaller mountains
- Questionable Snowfall
It appeared a visit to New Zealand would be easier. A layover in Auckland and a flight to Queenstown. One could ski on both the North & South Islands and add other activities.
ChrisC
Well-known member
I do not know any other geography in North America where the snow level fluctuates constantly.
New England/Northeast snow is more influenced by the storm track, which will determine if the resorts receive all rain, a mix, or heavy snow. Except for Alberta Clippers, most storms are followed by wind & plunging temperatures.
Patrick
Well-known member
All prices in Australian dollars and based on cost I paid in 2022.
Chains need to be carried regardless of time in ski season.
$44 AUD at bottom of Hotham access road. Cost for multiple days are much less. It cost me $56 for one week in Jindabyne.
NSW areas:
Commuted from Jindabyne: Thredbo, Perisher/Charlotte).
Mostly stayed in Jindabyne (30-34km / 30 minutes drive). Stayed 1 or 2 nights in Thredbo in 2018. Reasonable price booking was difficult. Didn’t find vacancies in 2022.
Park fees. All these areas are within the Kosciusko National Park and require pass. Pass was $29 AUD for 24hrs.
You can avoid the park fees and mandatory chains carried by using the Perisher skitube (funicular) which cost approx $60 and saved about 12km/15min on the drive.
There are some ski club or ski houses that don’t show on regular booking sites.
Chains need to be carried when entering the park regardless of time in ski season.
Victoria areas:
Bus from outside resort (Buller, Falls Creek, Hotham*).
Not in park, but resort toll fees ($62 AUD/day for Hotham in 2022).
Stayed basically at closer town outside resort and took the ski bus (except Hotham ‘22)
Buller: stayed in Mansfield (48km). Bus to resort was $92.
Hotham: stayed in Bright (56km). Didn’t take the bus in 2022. Price was similar to the Mansfield-Buller bus in 2018.
Falls Creek: stayed in Mount Beauty (30km) Bright is 60km.
From these various towns to the respective resorts is 45-60min drive. Mountain roads, but paved, better and easier than those in NZ.
Patrick
Well-known member
I believe prices are higher than in NZ, but varies with fluctuations between the Australian and NZ dollars.
Fees: detailed in previous post.
Australian lodging cost is basically in resort towns with no commute to the hill versus drives in NZ. Towns outside the resorts price difference might not be that great.
Snowfall: from experience, Australian hills get less precipitations (snow and rain) than NZ).and shutdowns.
Looking at my Oz/NZ trips:
Oz Aug/Sept 2018: skied 7 out of 8 days in Australia. Rained one day which I used to drive from Victoria to NSW.
NZ South Island Aug/Sep 2016: out of 8 days, I skied 5 days. One of those in total whiteout conditions. Prior to those 8 days, I delayed my arrival in Qtown and did other activities (like Milford Sound in the rain) due to the weather.
For the time I was staying in Queenstown/Wanaka, I lost 3 days.
On the North Island, I skipped my first day due to heavy downpour at Whakapapa.
Queenstown airport is definitely close to skiing. Auckland less so if you want to ski outside (there is indoor skiing) is 350km /4.5 hrs to reach Whakapapa compared to 240km / 3hrs between Melbourne and Mount Buller.
Concentrations of ski areas and lodging towns.
Australia:
Perisher, Thredbo, Charlotte Pass : you can stay at Perisher, Thredbo and Jindabyne.
Hotham, Falls Creek can be done town in the valley.
Mount Buller is somewhat on the tail end of the mountain range with Mt Baw Baw.
NZ:
Remarks, Coronet from Qtown with Cardrona and Treble 50km and 90km away.
These two are closer to Wanaka which is 75km north of Q.
Hutt is over 100km that close to Christchurch. About the same distance for the other hills.
North island: Whakapapa and Turua might be on the same mountain, but on two different sides. From base to base is about 1h.
Patrick
Well-known member
South America : 5 trips, 15 areas
Oceania : 4th trip coming up, 13 areas so far.
As a North American, I find it pretty cool seeing kangaroos when you’re driving up to the hill.
Or maybe skiing destinations from June to October.
Afriski is also on the radar, but again, it would even more touristy trip with 1 day of skiing. 2 if Tiffindell ever reopens.
Per our previous discussions here, that's ^^ not in my wheelhouse (lately, I've had enough challenges skiing during the northern-hemisphere winter); however, I'm glad that you've found your true skiing-related passion.Or maybe skiing destinations from June to October.
Patrick
Well-known member
Found? It was always there, but like I’m somewhat retired (if you don’t count my ski coaching job), I’m pretty free to travel the 8 months that I’m not coaching.
As the US President said, we don’t need Canadians, so I’ve moved my travel bucks elsewhere than the US. I know that I’m far from the only Canadiam not crossing the border.
Everywhere in western North America the snow level fluctuates constantly. But for most places it rarely reaches the base of ski resorts. In the Pacific States from SoCal to Alyeska it often reaches at least the base of many ski resorts. The table I published compares the relative risks of those resorts.
The Alps have even more exposure to fluctuating snow levels because the altitude range of their ski resorts is much greater. Only the inner core of the Alps has rain immunity comparable to the Rocky Mountains.
Yes. I think among the world's ski regions, that's an unusual pattern. The only other one that comes to mind is Japan's midwinter concentrated "Lake Effect." New Zealand and South America are just like western North America and Australia with sensitivity to fluctuating snow levels based upon altitude and latitude.
My first skiing outside the US was in NZ in 1982, then again in 1997. Post divorce I skied in the Southern Hemisphere in 2005, 2006 and 2007. My Southern Hemisphere skiing tailed off just as Patrick's was beginning.
Jindabyne was reasonable in 1997 even though lift tickets were expensive. Hopefully that has not changed much. I knew about Australia's snow unreliability before I went there with Adam's choir tour. The Aussie Ski Forum was already very active and I had also found the Spencer's Creek data by then. I consider myself lucky with the mid-July conditions I experienced at Thredbo, low tide but nice surfaces.
2005 in Las Lenas was degraded by the A-Factor: less than ideal rental skis plus Marte open one day instead of 3 because they were slow in excavating the lift from a storm the week prior to mine. I returned in 2015 and finally got to ski some of the terrain that I should not be skiing now in my 70's.
2006 was a subsidized NASJA trip to Queenstown with the only uniformly excellent conditions of my 4 NZ ski trips.
2007 in Chile had its highlights but conditions were variable due to zero new snow in the prior 3 weeks, a far from uncommon situation there.
In 2010 I was hosted for a few days by Black Diamond Safaris in New Zealand. I was "in the neighborhood" following an Tahiti eclipse cruise.
All of you know about the bucket list ski cruise to Antarctica in 2011.
In 2014 Liz and I were researching an ambitious 3+ week road safari in South America but scrubbed it when the season started poorly.
Considering what the other 4 months are, that's still a huge hit to quality of skiing available.
But we all have our eccentric priorities, as evidenced by our detour to Afriski a year ago.
I suspect we are done with Southern Hemisphere skiing aside from scoring Liz' 7th continent after the July 2028 eclipse. I have 26 southern ski areas, though 6 of them were ski touring in Antarctica.
I found this article today about aging skiers which definitely hit home. I have commented before about following Garry Klassen's path of being more particular about what snow conditions I'm willing to ski as I get older. Fringe destinations like Uzbekistan this past February are only on the agenda if I'm "in the neighborhood" for other reasons.
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Patrick
Well-known member
4 months of being paid to ski and enough to pay entirely for a 2-trip summer like Scandinavia/NZ plus some industry benefits, however the main reward is also trying to indoctrinate my passion into a new generation of skiers.
Rounding errors at Alta, and don't forget right after a rain event.
The virtue of rolling the dice for a Southern Hemisphere destination is that there's no FOMO of better skiing at home. But that assumes the southern trip is in addition to rather than instead of quality ski destinations during the northern winter.
Book your trip to Sydney a few months in advance. If conditions are good drive down to ski. If conditions are bad jump on a flight to North Queensland and go to the Great Barrier Reef in the best weather conditions of the year. About as conditions proof as you can get for a holiday.
Patrick
Well-known member
The more time I’m away from this summer heat weather in most of North America and continental Europe, the better. The high temperature I had in Scandinavia was between 10-15c with quite a bit of rain. Couldn’t have been happier, especially when I used my Frankfort for a quick visit. It was freaking 36c on June 14.The virtue of rolling the dice for a Southern Hemisphere destination is that there's no FOMO of better skiing at home. But that assumes the southern trip is in addition to rather than instead of quality ski destinations during the northern winter.
See what I wrote above.
Trips with flights in the last 10 years, plus I have never been or what no desire to go to tropics. Closest I’ve been is Miami (lat. 26-27) after the school year in late June 1978, my only time in Florida.
2015 : France with fam (3wks) then Alps in Switzerland, Austria, Germany, Slovenia and a bit of Italy and coastal Croatia with oldest (3wks)
2016 : Yukon (2wks), NZ (3wks)
2017 : Banff (2w), California (2w), Iceland (2w), Oregon (2w)
2018 : Ireland (2w), Australia (2w)
2019 : California (2w), France (3w), PNW (2w)
2020 : no flying, Canada only
2021 : Alta/BC (3-4w)
2022 : California (2w), Australia (3w)
2023 : Alta-BC (4w), California (3w) - injury messed up summer plans.
2024 : Oregon (2w), Europe (5-6w)
2025 : Scandinavia (3w)… NZ?
I would love to that old Swix sticker that a friend had in the early 80s, Summer Sticks, Think Snow. I would take -30c over +30c anytime.