Patrick's Streak, Ski Travel Priorities

ChrisC said:
Do you usually ski Killington in October, if possible, and deviate if things look too warm by October 15th in a 2-week outlook?
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If you look above, you’ll see all my October days for the last 20 years. At the start of the streak, Sunday River were more consistent than Killington in spinning lifts in October.
ChrisC said:
And then you make the call whether to become a New Jersey Mall Rat? If you are on the North American continent.
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My New Jersey mall experiences have been limited to July 2022 (I had gotten Covid early in that month when there was still snow around) or the official injury recovery period in Aug-Oct 2023 (blame it on Mammoth). ;)
So Big Snow hasn’t really been a factor in the decision process yet.
You are correct on the call being made late in October if nothing is on the horizon and make alternative plan like fly to Colorado (2007 & 2017).
ChrisC said:
Although Killington is no longer reliably opening in October. I am not sure what is impacting it more: management or weather?
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20 years ago, it was more management (for a period, K didnt push as much, this can be seen on their early/late dates, now it is definitely more weather related.
 
Patrick said:
If you look above, you’ll see all my October days for the last 20 years.
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The Whiteface Toll Road seems to be your go-to mountain in October if Killington or Sunday River is not available.

Doesn't the road close around Columbus Day? Like this year, it's October 13th. Do you hike, skin/tour, or can you bypass any barriers? I assume you are skiing on the low-gradient road. The above treeline areas of Whiteface Mountain Ski Area ("The Slides) are very rocky and take a long time to fill in, if at all. That's a lot of work getting up there, assuming a standard ascent rate of 1,000 vertical feet per hour.

You were lucky in 2012 with Superstorm/Hurricane Sandy - the West Virginia snowfall, while expected, was not a certainty.

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ChrisC said:
The Whiteface Toll Road seems to be your go-to mountain in October if Killington or Sunday River is not available.

Doesn't the road close around Columbus Day? Like this year, it's October 13th. Do you hike, skin/tour, or can you bypass any barriers?
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Yes, closure is on Columbus Day. Last year the road had closed the previous day. The gate is down, but only an obstacle for vehicules. Definitely not alone as I've seen skinners, hikers, cross-country and bikers. With the exception of one year, snow made it down to the gate.
ChrisC said:
You were lucky in 2012 with Superstorm/Hurricane Sandy - the West Virginia snowfall, while expected, was not a certainty.
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HurrIcane was blocking the cold air from taking place. Initially snow was suppose to happen in Western NY, but as the hurricane approached, forecast was altered.
 
Patrick said:
With the exception of one year, snow made it down to the gate.
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That seems very low for early season snow. Living in the VT/NH Connecticut River Valley, I rarely saw the snowline dip much below 4000 ft - possibly 3500ft - for October storms.

One Fall (Sept to early December) I was working on environmental research which required weekly climbing and recording measurements at various altitudes on college-owned Mount Moosilauke (a 4,802-foot-high mountain at the southwestern end of the White Mountains. It is the tenth highest and most southwesterly of the 4,000 foot summits in the White Mountains).

It is similar in elevation to Whiteface Mountain, the fifth-highest mountain in New York, with an elevation of 4,867 feet (1,483 m).

The early season snowfall never created a skiable base on hiking trails or the alpine/above tree-line areas. You are lucky to have a gradual road on Whiteface to provide a skiable surface.

Did you ever try the Mt. Mansfield - Stowe Toll Road?
 
ChrisC said:
That seems very low for early season snow. Living in the VT/NH Connecticut River Valley, I rarely saw the snowline dip much below 4000 ft - possibly 3500ft - for October storms.

It is similar in elevation to Whiteface Mountain, the fifth-highest mountain in New York, with an elevation of 4,867 feet (1,483 m).

The early season snowfall never created a skiable base on hiking trails or the alpine/above tree-line areas. You are lucky to have a gradual road on Whiteface to provide a skiable surface.

Did you ever try the Mt. Mansfield - Stowe Toll Road?
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Whiteface is the closest place from home, it takes me about 3hrs (250km) to get to. It also has a webcam and weather station at the mountain.

Jay, Megantic, Stowe or Massif are definitely good place to go, but sometimes the snow doesn't last long or is a total dud. A few guys found out the hard way by hiking the road on October 1 only to ski on rime on pavement.
Just did a quick browse of my pictures. Yes, posting them on the blog is a project.

2025: There was snow on the hills around Titus Mountain. Snow also along the road through the Adirondack south of Malone. Snow to the gate, but melted on the pavement. Snow covered road at 2678ft sign. Close to one foot at 3307ft.

2019: sketchy snow at 3307ft. Few inches at 3893ft.

2014: not much snow except higher up. Enough for turns. I don't have any pictures of the elevation signs, but based on the pictures, there wasn't much under 3800ft. Snow on the grass, but nothing on the road lower.

2010: snow almost to the gate.
TR from 2010:
madpatski.wordpress.com

Whiteface Toll Road NY, Monday October 18, 10

In honour of the first World Statistics Day yesterday, I presented you with the first TR posted directly on the Ski Mad World. October snow: Skiing by numbers. California actuaries to New York Stat…
madpatski.wordpress.com madpatski.wordpress.com
 
Patrick said:
Whiteface is the closest place from home, it takes me about 3hrs (250km) to get to. It also has a webcam and weather station at the mountain.
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That's interesting - Whiteface is so much closer to Canadian cities (Ottawa, Montreal) than America's East Coast cities, allowing for day trips. And if you can see snow depths on a webcam, then it's an obvious choice.

I did not know there was an auto road there. I was more familiar with Mt. Mansfield and Mt. Washington.

Assume you get lucky if there is early snow at Whiteface. October snow is not all that reliable in the East.

Also, surprised you make the trek to Sunday River. Thought they had an inferior product compared to Killington (when Killington decided to try to open). The Locke Triple and mid-station to ski T2 is a bit clunky and lower elevation.
 
ChrisC said:
That's interesting - Whiteface is so much closer to Canadian cities (Ottawa, Montreal) than America's East Coast cities, allowing for day trips. And if you can see snow depths on a webcam, then it's an obvious choice.

I did not know there was an auto road there. I was more familiar with Mt. Mansfield and Mt. Washington.

Assume you get lucky if there is early snow at Whiteface. October snow is not all that reliable in the East.
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There is also a road that lead to the top of Mt. Mégantic where there is an observatory on the summit.
ChrisC said:
Also, surprised you make the trek to Sunday River. Thought they had an inferior product compared to Killington (when Killington decided to try to open). The Locke Triple and mid-station to ski T2 is a bit clunky and lower elevation.
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The travel time from Ottawa /Montreal to Killington and Sunday River are approximately the same. 5hrs from Ottawa, 3hrs from Montreal.
 
Note for those interested on October snow options, top of Whiteface got snow. I will not be getting my October turns there as we are flying to Brussels tomorrow. Will be bringing some skis.
 
Patrick is in Belgium and the Netherlands. He e-mailed me a map showing at least 10 indoor ski areas in those countries. He will get to some real mountains in November.
 
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Tony Crocker said:
He e-mailed me a map showing at least 10 indoor ski areas in those countries.
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Would you even bring your own gear on such a trip? While it might be interesting for an hour or two at an indoor area, I cant imagine anything but just renting stuff given the enormous hassle factor of your own gear on such a trip. I'm curious if Patrick did take his gear; I just figure that he probably did and is likely schlepping all that crap all over Europe for weeks at a time for the lowest of low end skiing possible. Some version of OCD type thinking involved in his streak choices forcing so many of his decisions.
 
Tony Crocker said:
Patrick is in Belgium and the Netherlands. He e-mailed me a map showing at least 10 indoor ski areas in those countries. He will get to some real mountains in November.
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I did look up indoor skiing in Belgium and saw the largest was in The Netherlands about 1 hour from Brussels. They are a lot of indoor ski areas in Europe - more than I would think.

The largest Dutch indoor ski resort is SnowWorld Landgraaf, which features 35,000 square meters of skiable terrain and a 1 km total slope length. It includes five slopes, eight lifts, a FIS World Cup run, a terrain park, and a four-star hotel.
  • Size: It covers 35,000 square meters (8.6 acres) of skiable terrain.
  • Slopes: There are five slopes, including an FIS racecourse and the world's longest indoor slope.
  • Lifts: It is equipped with eight lifts.
  • Amenities: The resort features a terrain park, ski school, rental center, restaurants, and a four-star hotel.
  • Other Activities: Visitors can also enjoy activities like climbing and a mountain coaster during the summer.

I would rather go to the dentist, walk on glass, etc. then drag skis thousands of miles to another continent for indoor skiing - or really pack any gear...maybe lug my boot backpack and some basics that are in their already.

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I guess Patrick will be running gates if he brings personal gear/skis.
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Does it only count as part of his streak if he is on his own gear/stuff?! Is that the cutoff?

I was always wondering how he defines it. How big a patch? If a ski counts itself as 'open' - it counts? Some of the patches at Copper or Avila are pretty small. It's all personal.


BTW - Tony, did you ski on you own gear in Dubai?

If I were doing an 18-36 hour layover, I might just be willing to let the airline keep possession and rent. Especially getting skis into a taxi/Uber in a warm country.
 
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EMSC said:
I just figure that he probably did and is likely schlepping all that crap all over Europe for weeks at a time for the lowest of low end skiing possible. Some version of OCD type thinking involved in his streak choices forcing so many of his decisions.
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Patrick said:
I will not be getting my October turns there as we are flying to Brussels tomorrow. Will be bringing some skis.
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I thought maybe an overnight train to Alps. Zermatt is on high-speed rail. That might motivate me to do skis.

My friends and partner think I am absolutely nuts for schlepping stuff to Europe for a mostly business trip. And this is when I am targetting serious terrain in the Alps. I just think they don't undestand.

And I occasionally have mailed my ski bag to a hotel in the US via Fedex Ground so I am not dragging it around on to many work trips. That's more OCD behavior.
 
I have never had the opportunity to ski in an indoor ski area. I however, would simply prioritize taking my ski boots. jacket, pants, etc., and don’t think that makes too much of a difference and could rent or improvise. Generally rental skis are high-quality so that would be easy to rent.
 
EMSC said:
the lowest of low end skiing possible (...) his streak choices forcing so many of his decisions.
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ChrisC said:
I would rather go to the dentist, walk on glass, etc. then drag skis thousands of miles to another continent for indoor skiing
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ChrisC said:
I was always wondering how he defines it. How big of patch? If a ski counts itself as 'open' - it counts?
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As mentioned upthread -- we're in:beating-a-dead-horse: territory scrutinizing the "why?" or "how?" of the streak. It has nothing to do with pursuing or maximizing the quality of experience as typically measured. Best to watch from a safe distance!
 
Tony Crocker said:
Patrick is in Belgium and the Netherlands. He e-mailed me a map showing at least 10 indoor ski areas in those countries.
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I think I have now seen everything on this list.

To keep "The Streak" alive, Patrick will become the first skier to knock off 'ski' every indoor ski area in the world. Cannot wait for the China trip ski reports, since they are now building many indoor ski areas there. (Why? So Chinese can ski the Olympic Mountains near Beijing, which receive about 10" of natural snow per year and are as cold as Siberia.)

Although I have to admit, I am somewhat fascinated by skiing in Dubai on an Emirates layover. I think it represents humanity's total excess (giant shopping malls and ski areas in a 120°F desert). An even greater trainwreck fascination, Saudi Arabia is hosting the 2029 Asian Winter Games. Will the country complete the project?

snowbrains.com

2029 Asian Winter Games in Saudi Arabia’s Desert at Risk as Olympic Council Approaches Other Potential Hosts - SnowBrains

Saudi Arabia’s dream of hosting the 2029 Asian Winter Games is likely bursting as construction of the kingdom’s flagship mountain resort, Trojena, faces delays and mounting skepticism about whether it can deliver the region’s first winter sports extravaganza. Set to be built in Saudi Arabia’s...
snowbrains.com snowbrains.com
 
ChrisC said:
BTW - Tony, did you ski on you own gear in Dubai?
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We rented skis and poles. Boots and clothing were in our carry on backpacks so it was simple just to wear those for the quarter mile walk from our hotel to the mall. We had all our gear with us because of the ski week in Uzbekistan.
EMSC said:
Would you even bring your own gear on such a trip? While it might be interesting for an hour or two at an indoor area, I cant imagine anything but just renting stuff given the enormous hassle factor of your own gear on such a trip. I'm curious if Patrick did take his gear; I just figure that he probably did
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I'll defend Patrick here. He's going to be in Europe for at least a month. He's there for family reasons. His mother-in-law lives in Lyon and Patrick will be off skiing for 3 weeks while his wife is with her mother. I'm sure Belgium/Netherlands is because his wife wants to visit those places. They are going to Hamburg and Copenhagen on the back end of the trip too.

November in the Alps is mostly likely glaciers and maybe a few WRODs, not ideal timing. But the timing of this trip was not Patrick's call. And recall Patrick skied June/July in Norway and Sweden and Aug/Sept in New Zealand.
 
Tony Crocker said:
November in the Alps is mostly likely glaciers and maybe a few WRODs, not ideal timing
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Patrick has been to most of the glacier resorts of Europe (from France to Austria). Assume some of the reason is due to family visits at various non-optimal ski times of the calendar.

Europe really lags in the early season, lacking a Thanksgiving-style holiday to incentivize snowmaking, staffing, and terrain openings—practically until late December (i.e., December 26th).

With minimal experience or research, I would likely choose (outside of an obvious early-season blizzard):
  • Les 2 Alpes. An obvious close-by choice, decent length/vertical, but not much pitch.
  • Zermatt/Cervinia. Italy reliably opens 2000 ft advanced pistes/glaciers.
  • Stubai
  • Hintertux
 
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