Epic Pass - Vail now Controls(?) Most of Austria

[ChrisC]

Most areas, even top tier ones like Val d'Isere and the Arlberg, have more like $75-85 window prices

The Euros are getting upset over day pass prices in Austria:

Zillertal 24/25: https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=170407&start=280

 

[jamesdeluxe]

At the now far less advantageous exchange rate, €79 = $90. To quote the Chernobyl TV series, "not great, not terrible" compared to the U.S. I mentioned earlier how some people on the Swiss Alpinfans forum are concerned that the Magic Pass is priced too low (for the coming season CHF 482 = $588, which includes skiing and summer activities), leading to what they see as adverse effects on certain indie mountains.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Interesting to see the Montafon region getting notice stateside ten years after my visit due to the megapass effect. Here's a recent Bloomberg article about an American couple doing the same Madrisa Tour that I did back then.

I'll need to return at some point because I didn't actually ski the lift-served Gargellen ski area.

 

[ChrisC]

Here's a recent Bloomberg article about an American couple doing the same Madrisa Tour that I did back then.

I think the writer is a bit overreactive about the notion that Epic = Hordes of Americans in the Montafon Valley and even in the smaller Gargellen.

During The Storm Journal's interview, Vail CEO Rob Katz laughed when asked if these Euro partnerships move the needle or are significant to the Epic Pass. He quickly dismissed the topic as irrelevant. 3 Vallees - maybe interesting. Austrian resorts most Americans do not know exist—maybe a couple hundred redemptions per season.


Again, this writer, Gordy Megroz, exaggerates, and I begin to question his knowledge of the Alps in general. He writes:

But these days hardly any ski area is immune to Big Skiing, particularly as companies such as Vail Resorts Inc. have started to wrap their corporate tentacles around European mountains. Andermatt, Switzerland, for example, has gone the way of Whistler Blackcomb in British Columbia, Canada: badly overdeveloped and a place best avoided.​

​

Sure, the Andermatt-Sedun-Desintis ski resort has been rightfully upgraded and expanded, but only for the best. Most of this terrain is newly lift-served. Disentis is well-preserved and unchanged. Meanwhile, the jewel of Andermatt - Gemsstock - has had almost no improvements, and is still served by low-capacity cable cars that prevent its 360-degree terrain from getting skied out for weeks after a storm.

And has he walked the streets of Andermatt? Yes, some new upper-end development, but when you look, nearly one-third of the inns in Andermatt proper are not even online, and you cannot make a reservation electronically. They are all adequate, walking distance, and typically <100 CHF weeknight.

I find the refrain of "Vail = Ski Resort Desuction" a very tired, uninsightful diatribe that plays to the ill-informed Internet meme 'Bro' culture. Corporations are evil, the mountains should be free!


And this is the real kicker:

I was worried about my own visit. Would writing about the area for an eager American audience disrupt its gentle ecosystem? Bitschnau assured me it wouldn’t be a problem. “We only have so many beds in this valley,” he said. “Americans are welcome if they can find a bed.”​

​

It took Telluride nearly two decades, hundreds of articles, Top 10 Lists, Films (Zudnick?), government funding for infrastructure, etc., to be 'discovered' - and a lot remains unchanged. Same with Jackson.

One writer behind a Bloomberg Paywall is not going to change anything.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

I find the refrain of "Vail = Ski Resort Destruction" a very tired, uninsightful diatribe that plays to the ill-informed Internet meme 'Bro' culture. Corporations are evil, the mountains should be free! (...) One writer behind a Bloomberg Paywall is not going to change anything.

Agreed but when you're there on a press trip paid for by someone else, the typical move is to come up with a premise in advance and find data points during your visit that support it while, as you note, ignoring any info that refutes it. Since it's behind a paywall and is part of an unknown-to-Americans region, there won't be a lot of people to call BS.

 

[Tony Crocker]

this writer, Gordy Megroz

is the one who wrote about our 2017 eclipse wedding in Jackson.

the newer Piz Val Gronda cable car

we rode only once because it was in fog. We did get some powder in the E1 sector ChrisC circled though you had to be careful as it was a bit low tide in 2017.

 

[Tony Crocker]

It took Telluride nearly two decades, hundreds of articles, Top 10 Lists, Films (Zudnick?), government funding for infrastructure, etc., to be 'discovered' - and a lot remains unchanged. Same with Jackson.

I thought it was ChrisC who says Jackson has changed a lot with the doubling of skier visits in the past 20 years.

I also found the comparison of Andermatt to Whistler inappropriate. Lift capacity and terrain at Andermatt-Sedrun were expanded far more than the bed base was. Andermatt in no way has the industrial ambience that James tries to avoid.

Vail Resorts Inc. have started to wrap their corporate tentacles around European mountains.

This is the most ridiculous statement. Switzerland is the only alpine country where Vail will likely be allowed to buy a ski resort. Vail's North American vertical integration and lift ticket pricing models are complete non-starters in in the Alps. Vail's dissident shareholders have critiqued the Swiss investments as overpriced and a poor allocation of resources.

 

[ChrisC]

I thought it was ChrisC who says Jackson has changed a lot with the doubling of skier visits in the past 20 years.

Yes, there is a bit of 'Paradise Lost' in Jackson Hole, with its skier days rising to 800k skiers/year without meaningful expansion of terrain boundaries—definitely a breaking point on some Winter Weekends. Every meaningful lift is now a modern High-Speed quad.

Telluride has taken the opposite approach. It cut off all capital funding for enhancing the ski resort in 2010, and has stayed at 450-500k skiers/yr. Although no one takes ownership of this direction, it is the default outcome due to ownership decisions—or non-decisions.

Andermatt in no way has the industrial ambience that James tries to avoid.

I think both Engelberg and Andermatt have stayed true to their roots, especially given their location, only 1-2 hours from the Swiss cities of Zurich, Lucerne, and Bern.

This is the most ridiculous statement. Switzerland is the only alpine country where Vail will likely be allowed to buy a ski resort. Vail's North American vertical integration and lift ticket pricing models are complete non-starters in in the Alps. Vail's dissident shareholders have critiqued the Swiss investments as overpriced and a poor allocation of resources.

I have some thoughts about Vail, almost quixotic expansion into Europe - another post.

is the one who wrote about our 2017 eclipse wedding in Jackson.

I had not read that article before. Or possibly didn't get very far with the eclipse subject matter. Nice!

 

[ChrisC]

We did get some powder in the E1 sector ChrisC circled though you had to be careful as it was a bit low tide in 2017.

I believe this is the E4 Chairlift / Gampenbahn.

Even in a record Winter 2018/19 for Austria, one can still see a couple of rocks protruding. There were ZERO rocks in the Arlberg on an easily 100-200-inch base. To me, this demonstrates the snow shadow, and - likely - the Ischgl subsurface might be quite rocky in parts. O maybe wind-impacted.