Patrick's Streak, Ski Travel Priorities
- Thread starter ChrisC
- Start date
Patrick has been retired (other than from his Dec-Mar ski coaching) for about a decade. Family responsibilities seen to have shifted from his now grown daughters to the mother-in-law in France. The latter situation can actually facilitate some tough months of the streak. Hands-on management of an apartment building would not be my choice in retirement though. In fairness, Liz has rented out her mother's house in Florida for 5 years now and the nuisance value has been quite manageable so far.
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^^^
I own residential investment properties and I dislike them from the hassle factor point of view. (Not to mention their long term return hasn’t matched equities). If I had my time again I wouldn’t have ever gone down that road. I do think it will become less of a bother when I’m not working 50 hours a week for 45 weeks of the year as I’ll have more time to tinker on them though.
I own residential investment properties and I dislike them from the hassle factor point of view. (Not to mention their long term return hasn’t matched equities). If I had my time again I wouldn’t have ever gone down that road. I do think it will become less of a bother when I’m not working 50 hours a week for 45 weeks of the year as I’ll have more time to tinker on them though.
Patrick confirmed he skied Parker Ridge last Friday and Sunday. He should get both September and October in Europe. Val Senales, Hintertux and Pitztal are scheduled to open in late September, and several more glacier areas the first week of October.
Patrick
Well-known member
Missed me? Getting ready for early week trip to Montreal (reno inspection, dealing with permis and contractor plus a 40 people concert to see David J).
The fact that I had major renos plus a sudden change of tenants happening in the same timeframe. We are returning to see my wife's mom in France again; it was planned in the Summer, but heat made use reconsidered and push it back by a few weeks. The idea was initially thinking of going for the eclipse, aversion to extreme heat made want to avoid the memories of our last summer in France in 2019.
The US is the only country that has threaten Canada's sovereignty and kept insulting and trolling us. Openly meeting and advising the Alberta separatist; major backers of the Maple Magas and the truckers convoy. Saying that our country wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the US, we don't have a military, etc. Pretty insulting considering that Canada answered and died when the US invoked NATO's article 5 in Afghanistan. Canada entered WW1 and WW2 way before the US. 32 months prior in WW1 and 27 months for WW2.
Trump said that he didn't need Canada or Canadians and Canada never gave anything in return; with that attitude, I decided to answer with my wallet and stop traveling to the US like many of my compatriots. It sucks for many border states, but it also sucks for industry workers on this side of the border.
As many Canadians, I've traveled and spent much time and money going to the US since I was born; I am definitely not alone in this attitude.
I was curious, all my ski days since 1981 and until Trump 2.0 came was elected, the US accounted for 496 ski days over 2090 days. In over 40 years, almost one quarter of my ski days have been in the US.
Four of the top 11 of my most skied areas are in the US; Killington (5th), MRG (7th), Jay (10th) and Whiteface (11th). Rounding out the top 20, Mammoth (14th), Sunday River (17th) and Smuggs (20th).
So in summary,
Yes I would have gone to the Andes if I could have made it happen. Two weeks prior I have at 40% odds to booking for Santiago and 0% for Oceania. I had already looked into the following places for either a return visit or take advantage to the extra snow.
Places looked at:
Portillo
Above Santiago
Chilan
Corralco
Other places considered for 1 day as it has been an exceptional snow year.
Chapa Verde
Antuco
Antillanca
Araucarias
Osorno
I wasn't considering crossing the border, but Los Penitentes (Argentina, close to Portillo) which I skied (2009 prior to Las Lenas) and enjoyed reopened after being close for many seasons.
And for August, it always pleasant to travel in Banff/Jasper. One of my favorite scenery on Earth. Easy flight on points, left at end of day Wednesday back on the red-eye Monday. A lot of snow left, longest patch was about 1km with one break in the sharp change in slope and creek. Trying to return to writing, if I have time and energy.
My flight to YYC was booked w points on Aug 12. Even though I was hoping to make it happen to the Andes, the risks of a TISA factor at a short trip are greater. I was grounded a few days in Termas in 2007 and in Las Lenas in 2009. Unfortunately there is no longer direct flights from Canada to Chile/Argentina which also increase travel time with one extra layover. Air Canada Toronto to Santiago was the easier, 10h+ overnight flight leaving just prior to midnight. Same timezone. AC option now has a connection in Bogota with 3-4h layover.
The fact that I had major renos plus a sudden change of tenants happening in the same timeframe. We are returning to see my wife's mom in France again; it was planned in the Summer, but heat made use reconsidered and push it back by a few weeks. The idea was initially thinking of going for the eclipse, aversion to extreme heat made want to avoid the memories of our last summer in France in 2019.
Yes.
TISA factor on a short trip. Imagine being stuff in Portillo with no way to ski. There is just so much drinking and playing cards I can take (memories from Termas 2007 and Las Lenas 2009). I have a good friend that was in Portillo in 2006(?), managed to ski very little before the resort was shutdown. You are correct with the psychological effect of the negative experience, but I managed to get over it, but it is definitely there. It would have definitely added extra stress with all the life stuff going on in Montreal and France.
Chile and Argentina has never threaten Canada.
The US is the only country that has threaten Canada's sovereignty and kept insulting and trolling us. Openly meeting and advising the Alberta separatist; major backers of the Maple Magas and the truckers convoy. Saying that our country wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the US, we don't have a military, etc. Pretty insulting considering that Canada answered and died when the US invoked NATO's article 5 in Afghanistan. Canada entered WW1 and WW2 way before the US. 32 months prior in WW1 and 27 months for WW2.
Trump said that he didn't need Canada or Canadians and Canada never gave anything in return; with that attitude, I decided to answer with my wallet and stop traveling to the US like many of my compatriots. It sucks for many border states, but it also sucks for industry workers on this side of the border.
As many Canadians, I've traveled and spent much time and money going to the US since I was born; I am definitely not alone in this attitude.
I was curious, all my ski days since 1981 and until Trump 2.0 came was elected, the US accounted for 496 ski days over 2090 days. In over 40 years, almost one quarter of my ski days have been in the US.
Four of the top 11 of my most skied areas are in the US; Killington (5th), MRG (7th), Jay (10th) and Whiteface (11th). Rounding out the top 20, Mammoth (14th), Sunday River (17th) and Smuggs (20th).
So in summary,
Yes I would have gone to the Andes if I could have made it happen. Two weeks prior I have at 40% odds to booking for Santiago and 0% for Oceania. I had already looked into the following places for either a return visit or take advantage to the extra snow.
Places looked at:
Portillo
Above Santiago
Chilan
Corralco
Other places considered for 1 day as it has been an exceptional snow year.
Chapa Verde
Antuco
Antillanca
Araucarias
Osorno
I wasn't considering crossing the border, but Los Penitentes (Argentina, close to Portillo) which I skied (2009 prior to Las Lenas) and enjoyed reopened after being close for many seasons.
And for August, it always pleasant to travel in Banff/Jasper. One of my favorite scenery on Earth. Easy flight on points, left at end of day Wednesday back on the red-eye Monday. A lot of snow left, longest patch was about 1km with one break in the sharp change in slope and creek. Trying to return to writing, if I have time and energy.
ChrisC
Well-known member
Short? Both of my trips to Chile were 4 or 5 days, with both arrival and departure days including skiing.
I suspect the rugged, high-altitude, above-treeline terrain of the Andes creates more operational challenges for resorts than the TISA factor. I imagine that is the same reason you faced closures during your New Zealand trip (vs. a TINZ factor). Or we do on Alps trips. (vs. a TIEU factor).
Outside the USA Rocky Mountains and Japan, where the treeline is high, 1.5-2 ft+ of snow is problematic globally.
After the July storm, most of Chile has been operating normally; again, the southern volcanoes can have a down day or only lower mountain open - but similar to any ski season and any volcano anywhere. I believe the Santiago resorts have had zero closure issues since late July/August.
Portillo is such an outlier in terms of terrain and exposure that it will likely continue to struggle with reliability perceptions. The difficulty for the Chilean ski industry is that many travelers will mistakenly assume all regional resorts were impacted by the same month-long closure. This is especially unsettling for Portillo since the road was plowed, and policy prevented day-skiing travel.
It also helps little that an army of social media influencers stranded themselves in Chile for a week with no ski footage, trying to justify it as an amazing experience. But that is more ignorance.
Patrick
Well-known member
This is based on my personal experience of 2 NZ and 5 Andes trips.
NZ shutdown for 1 or 2 odd day at the most which I used as travel days last year.
I’ve been shutdown for 2 days of more at Chillan, Las Lenas and Pucon. Chapelco shutdown for the day after maybe 3 runs. I wasn’t at Portillo when they shutdown for a number of days in 2006(?). Chillan shutdown even the pomas due to wind. My friend basically traveled to Portillo for one week and barely skied locked down at the hotel for almost his entire trip. Very similar to the situation experienced by those stuck at Portillo earlier this season.
Maybe the reliability of operations might have improved in SA in the 15-20 years, I couldn’t say.
ChrisC
Well-known member
I agree that the Andes’ topography creates significantly more operational challenges than New Zealand’s, even though both are susceptible to wind and storm-related closures.
However, I don't believe the TISA (South American) factor should be a primary reason to avoid a short trip. The best strategy is simply to steer clear of resorts known for questionable weather reliability, such as the southern Chilean volcano resorts (Chillán and Corralco) or, in New Zealand, the North Island volcanoes and Mt. Hutt. Given that the U.S. equivalent—Mt. Bachelor—only operates its summit about 30–40% of the time, that likely represents the best-case operational scenario for high-alpine volcanic terrain.
The smarter approach is to target areas with resort clusters where at least one option is likely to be open weather-wise, such as the Santiago group (Valle Nevado, El Colorado, La Parva), the Bariloche area (Catedral, Bayo, Chapelco), or the Queenstown region (Remarkables, Coronet Peak, Cardrona, Treble Cone).
That said, your trip to Banff seems like an excellent choice, especially following such a big winter.
This "streak" mindset seems well aligned with the Turns All Year (TAY) community. I’ve recently started following their forums; most members there seem to pivot to Pacific Northwest glacier skiing once the Rocky Mountain snowpack fades. Some Euro glacier experiences. Less indoor.
However, I don't believe the TISA (South American) factor should be a primary reason to avoid a short trip. The best strategy is simply to steer clear of resorts known for questionable weather reliability, such as the southern Chilean volcano resorts (Chillán and Corralco) or, in New Zealand, the North Island volcanoes and Mt. Hutt. Given that the U.S. equivalent—Mt. Bachelor—only operates its summit about 30–40% of the time, that likely represents the best-case operational scenario for high-alpine volcanic terrain.
The smarter approach is to target areas with resort clusters where at least one option is likely to be open weather-wise, such as the Santiago group (Valle Nevado, El Colorado, La Parva), the Bariloche area (Catedral, Bayo, Chapelco), or the Queenstown region (Remarkables, Coronet Peak, Cardrona, Treble Cone).
That said, your trip to Banff seems like an excellent choice, especially following such a big winter.
This "streak" mindset seems well aligned with the Turns All Year (TAY) community. I’ve recently started following their forums; most members there seem to pivot to Pacific Northwest glacier skiing once the Rocky Mountain snowpack fades. Some Euro glacier experiences. Less indoor.
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Patrick
Well-known member
I found that out in 2007 & 2008; Las Lenas was in 2009 and there was no real option way to go elsewhere. The 2010 storm was centred again around Pucon/Chapelco latitudes so I headed straight thru Patagonia when I arrived in SA.
The wind storms in NZ last year was shutting basically everything between Remarks and Hutt including the smaller areas like Ohau, Roundhill and Dobson. I think I timed it perfectly last year. Hutt then use the shutdown day to drive to Qtown. Next weather event, drive back up to Methven near Hutt. For the 4 days I skipped due to weather, 2 were shutdown days, 2 of them became travel days. 9 days of skiing in 13.
No to the Andes was more stress and financial related. It didn't make sense to travel so far for limited time when I could go to Banff on a fraction of the cost and entirely on points. My 6 days cost me about half price of an Ottawa-Santiago plane ticket one week out.
Not aiming for an indoor streak; Big Snow in late July happened due to circumstances. Hit with covid in early July 2022, so I didn't have any energy to try to hike for turns once I was no longer sick. July to October, I was medically not suppose to ski due the the injury suffered at Mammoth on Memorial day.
Last year, I was landing in Brussels as we had planned to visit in the previous year's trip, but couldn't when we changed our plans and flights departure due a family emergency. Landergraaf is also claim as Europe's biggest indoor area. We could have shifted out plans, but wanted to be in Zermatt for my wife's bday on Dec 1st.
In the TAY crowd; I know a few and some of them also just rely on Mt. Hood. Liftserved then earned turns until the lifts start spinning again. I prefer my variety.
I aim to get my Sept-Oct turns outdoor somewhere in Europe. Flying to my mom-in-law's for 3 weeks on Sept 15.
Every ski area within a resort cluster is likely to have bad season at the same time. There is no Southern Hemisphere region safe to target far ahead. Nonetheless I followed that advice personally only for the two Las Lenas trips in 2005 and 2015 and the one upcoming. The others?
late August 1982 New Zealand, general tourism but tied to ski season
late July 1997 Oz/NZ, Adam's choir trip to Sydney/Canberra
late August 2006 NASJA trip to New Zealand, highly subsidized price. This was the one with outstanding snow conditions.
early September 2007 NASJA trip to Chile cancelled. When it was cancelled I had already purchased airfare and scheduled the Inca Trail in advance, so arranged Chile skiing independently.
mid-July 2010 New Zealand, after a July eclipse, same situation coming up in 2028, same Saros series so eclipse 10 days later!
Santiago is the only southern ski destination IMHO that makes sense for less than two weeks and can be put together easily on short notice.
As for Las Lenas now, the snowpack is not as deep as in 2005 but definitely more than in 2015. If you prioritize technical skiing and long steep lines, this is a year to carve out those two weeks for Las Lenas. I'm beyond the Warren Miller years for that, grateful I skied what I did in 2015.
late August 1982 New Zealand, general tourism but tied to ski season
late July 1997 Oz/NZ, Adam's choir trip to Sydney/Canberra
late August 2006 NASJA trip to New Zealand, highly subsidized price. This was the one with outstanding snow conditions.
early September 2007 NASJA trip to Chile cancelled. When it was cancelled I had already purchased airfare and scheduled the Inca Trail in advance, so arranged Chile skiing independently.
mid-July 2010 New Zealand, after a July eclipse, same situation coming up in 2028, same Saros series so eclipse 10 days later!
Santiago is the only southern ski destination IMHO that makes sense for less than two weeks and can be put together easily on short notice.
As for Las Lenas now, the snowpack is not as deep as in 2005 but definitely more than in 2015. If you prioritize technical skiing and long steep lines, this is a year to carve out those two weeks for Las Lenas. I'm beyond the Warren Miller years for that, grateful I skied what I did in 2015.
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ChrisC
Well-known member
Sure, my comments were on weather windows.
Once you reach a certain base (mid/late June for Northern Chile/Argentina resorts) and, finally, (early/mid August for Southern Chile/Argentina; really, Argentinian Patagonia was just in the last week or so), a cluster of ski resorts is better. One will be open/ski better than the others.
I don't think Chillán and Corralco are close enough to pick one over the other or get an accurate report early enough.
Peak Rankings also discussed this in a video, noting that Pucón essentially doesn't function as a reliable ski area—it's more of a summer tourist lift than a destination for serious skiing.
ChrisC
Well-known member
I had to make some decisions by early August for Andes -specifically Chile- skiing: A few key factors for a no vote:
- Southern areas Chillan and Corralco did not have adequate coverage until early/mid August to warrant a visit. For example, at Chillan the Otto summit lift did not open until until this period.
- Regradless of snow, I assume 30% of my time would be down days, and 30% partial-opening days. Only 100% for maybe 1-2 days.
- Portillo looks completely unreliable for day skiers this year. Unfortunate with even more lines are skiable this year vs. 2023.
My decision might have been different if Portillo had been more accessible or if the southern resorts had received snow earlier in the season—such as during the July mega-storm.
I would assume
routinely for those areas.
I would be very surprised if Portillo and/or Three Valleys have road problems when we arrive mid-September. September climatology in central Chile is like April in the Sierra. Yes you can get a big storm, but the odds are way down vs. mid-winter.
Of course ChrisC scored big at these areas just 3 years ago I think. I had a mixed conditions trip in 2007 and Liz struggled a lot with weather and logistics in 2010, so we are more eager to do this now while we can.
I flew to Utah for Christmas with my wife's aunt in December 2024 and was told skiing would be dire. It turned out to be a whole lot of fun despite sub par conditions. Sometimes you've got to commit ahead. The key is to set your expectations accordingly.
I'm booked for Chile in a couple of weeks and have myself conditioned that we might only be doing general tourist things and it will be a bonus if we can get anything to slide on. There's no way to be disappointed that way.
I'm booked for Chile in a couple of weeks and have myself conditioned that we might only be doing general tourist things and it will be a bonus if we can get anything to slide on. There's no way to be disappointed that way.
That is way too pessimistic. There's no way Portillo or Valle Nevado snowpack melts out by then. Worst case scenario is the storm/road closure situation, but odds of that decrease every day in September. Second worst would be cloudy/windy with snow remaining hardpack. That was my final ski day in El Colorado in 2007.
My initial inclination was to reserve just a night or two in Three Valleys so we could bail and do more tourism before Portillo or add on if skiing is good. But pricing/availability are so much worse than in 2007 I decided to take my chances with 4 days/3 nights at the start of the trip.
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