PeakRankings: Trips

I thought it was interesting that PeakRankings has moved into Travel.

Essentially, most of its money comes from its YouTube Channel; you can serve up a lot of ads during an hour-long video, no matter how well-produced.

jamesdeluxe said:

I agree; it takes almost as long to read that novella-length transcript as to watch the video. Still (and we've discussed this before), it's much more efficient to read the content of a documentary-style clip than to sit through it. We've used former admin's Grand Adventure travel series as Exhibit A -- they're really well done and he puts a ton of work into them but I'm not going to spend 45-60 minutes watching the whole thing. I prefer an article with photos and a short youtube clip.

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Anyways, I agree they need to find multiple revenue streams. The list of Trips: PeakHouse can be found here Link

Some were quite interesting:

Austrian Alps based on the new Epic Pass expansion (This was the same reason I bought an Epic Pass this year) Link




However, they created this super-masochistic Telluride and Silverton Trip that sounds like hell on earth to me. Great idea! But too intense and no respect to elevation, even if you are in good/great shape at sea level: Pre-trip in Bear Creek Backcountry (oh no! could be deadly), 2 Days of death hikes in Telluride, and more death-hiking in Silverton (My brother and I joke that Palmyra Peak can be a 2-Hour Hike to the World's Highest Mogul Field if it has snowed recently; It's very constricted at the summit) Link

I will definitely watch the one-hour video on this shitshow and how it will devolve into nothing resembling the below itinerary.

Day 1 – Tuesday, Mar 24: Arrival and Welcome + Optional Telluride Backcountry​

• Early arrivals get an extra day to explore Telluride Ski Resort
• Optional backcountry day: Reserve a guide through us, or ski/ride with partners if you are comfortable with the area
• Everyone else arrives in Telluride and checks into the chalets; settle in and meet the group
• Welcome dinner prepared by the PeakRankings team – hearty, home-cooked meal to fuel the trip
• Evening: Trip briefing, Q&A, and optional stroll through Telluride

We’ve secured some pretty sick condos for this trip.

Day 2 – Wednesday, Mar 25: Telluride Day 1 + Gold Hill Chutes Hikes​

• Breakfast at the townhouse – fresh coffee, eggs, oatmeal, fruit, and more
• Full-day skiing at Telluride:
  • Start with warm up laps on the “relatively tame” terrain off the Plunge and Apex Lifts
  • Midday: Explore the gorgeous terrain off of Gold Hill Express and Revelation Lift
  • (Optional) Lunch at Alpino Vino Restaurant (on-mountain) or bring sandwiches to the Revelation lookout
  • Afternoon: Explore the extreme steeps of the Gold Hill Chutes (hike-to). We are thinking 2-4 hikes of 15-20 minutes in length.
• Après-ski in the Telluride Village – slope-side drinks and snacks
• Dinner at the chalet – home-cooked comfort food and casual evening hang

Day 3 – Thursday, Mar 26: Palmyra Peak hiking experience and drive to Silverton​

• Breakfast at the chalet
• Full-day skiing at Telluride:
  • Morning warm-up lap in Prospect Bowl
  • Bootpack up to Palmayra Peak (~2 hours) and ski some of North America’s best hike-to terrain
  • For those with more gas left in the tank, hike again up to Black Iron Bowl for more low-traffic extremes (~40-45 mins)
  • Spend the rest of the day unwinding on whatever terrain we have not yet explored
• After skiing: Hop in the car and drive to Silverton (~1:45). Check in and unwind at another townhouse

See this bootpack? This could be you in March.

Day 4 – Friday, Mar 27: Silverton Guided Day (optional) or Unguided Exploration​

• Breakfast at the chalet
• Full day at Silverton, guided (optional add-on cost) or unguided exploration of resort. Optional hikes of 2+ hours
• Lunch: Silverton has no on-mountain facilities, bring sandwiches to slopes (materials provided by PeakRankings team) or walk to town for nicer meal
• Dinner in Silverton condos prepped by PeakRankings team

Day 5 – Saturday, Mar 28: Silverton Heli Drop​

• Breakfast at the chalet
• Unguided day at Silverton to start; optional hikes of 2+ hours
• (Optional) Heli drops at Silverton
• (Optional) Group photo session + trip highlights recap
• Farewell dinner at the chalet – final feast with the crew and celebration of a great trip

Day 6 – Sunday, Mar 29: Departure Day + Optional Unguided Silverton Day + Optional Silverton Heli Drop #2​

• Light breakfast at the chalet
• Check-out and return to Montrose
• Optional: Morning or full ski session at Silverton (and day 2 of heli drop for those who did not use both drops on Saturday)
• Goodbyes + trip wrap-up

ChrisC said:

Optional Trip Add-Ons: 1 pre-trip Telluride night;

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This trip needs a one week non-optional pre-trip sleeping at least at 8,500 feet.

ChrisC said:

too intense and no respect to elevation, even if you are in good/great shape at sea level

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Tony Crocker said:

This trip needs a one week non-optional pre-trip sleeping at least at 8,500 feet.

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How's it possible that no one even considered this detail or is something buried in the fine print?

My one sea-level-to-high-elevation dalliance without an adjustment day was Mirkwood Basin at Monarch to almost 12,000 feet; however, that one was comparative small potatoes: gradual and on a cat track (but it was still 40 minutes of huffing and puffing for me). Those Telluride hikes sound spicy.

jamesdeluxe said:

How's it possible that no one even considered this detail or is something buried in the fine print?

My one sea-level-to-high-elevation dalliance without an adjustment day was Mirkwood Basin at Monarch to almost 12,000 feet; however, that one was comparative small potatoes: gradual and on a cat track (but it was still 40 minutes of huffing and puffing for me). Those Telluride hikes sound spicy.

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I don't know. I am going to write to him to discuss the risks and offer some suggestions, as well as terrain choices.

I can see from the Telluride Lodging photos that they are staying in Mountain Village, rather than the Town of Telluride, which is at a higher elevation of 9600 ft. It can be difficult to sleep at that altitude.

This is not giving anyone enough time to acclimate. I assume everyone on his trip will be from near sea level.

From my climbing days, medically, at least 25% of the population will experience some form of altitude sickness above 10,000 feet. These hikes often begin at elevations of 12,000 feet and can reach heights of up to 13,400 feet. I always pop some Advil before hiking above 12,000 ft for prevention.

And then trying to hike 2 hours per day consecutively - ouch.


And he knows the difficulty. Perhaps he hasn't been to Silverton yet.

One Trip they planned, which I think is intelligent, is to South America - specifically Chile in 2026 - and heading south to the volcanoes. This region (Chilean Patagonia?) seems somewhat similar to our Pacific Northwest and has a more dependable moisture flow. Again, the volcanoes might have some down days due to the weather.



Chile 2026

• Dates: August 6 - 12, 2026
• Location: Corralco & Nevados de Chillán, Chile, with optional addendums to Pillán and Ski Arpa
  • Corralco, Nevados de Chillán, and Pillán are the top three ski resorts for annual average snowfall in the Southern Hemisphere, with 300+ inches over a four-month season.
• Accommodation: Private homes
• Transport: Private vehicles for group travel
• Highlights: Skiing on active volcanoes with expansive alpine terrain; natural hot springs at the base of the slopes
  
  Bonus Activities: Santiago city exploration; après in thermal baths

ChrisC said:

I am going to write to him to discuss the risks and offer some suggestions, as well as terrain choices.

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I look forward to hearing about his reaction to a rando (well-informed as you are) questioning his choices. Maybe he'll take it in a professional way and engage in a cordial dialogue?

ChrisC said:

I don't know. I am going to write to him to discuss the risks and offer some suggestions, as well as terrain choices.

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Interesting talk about altitude sickness. I’ve only stayed as high as Snowmass but have been there a few times. I’ve never had one hint of it. Nor has any of my family. And we live at sea level. We’ve always had time in SLC prior though.

Sbooker said:

Interesting talk about altitude sickness. I’ve only stayed as high as Snowmass but have been there a few times. I’ve never had one hint of it. Nor has any of my family. And we live at sea level. We’ve always had time in SLC prior though.

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Not everyone is affected by it. But a decent enough sized portion of the population is that it needs to be taken into consideration if you are running group trips.

I might breathe much harder than normal at altitude if I'm out of shape, but no altitude sickness. Others I've hiked with have had to turn back from attempting 14'ers (14,000 foot high peaks) due to the beginnings of altitude sickness part way up.

There are also occasions when newcomers to Colorado have had to pack up and leave after a month or two because they could not adjust even at Denver's low altitude. Also know someone that came down with a long term medical condition that required them to move to sea level after living in Denver Metro for decades.

Basically it's pretty variable, but plenty of random folks can be affected. I've heard two different altitudes over the years that medical types talk about. Some say over 8K feet, others say altitude sickness is concern over 10K feet (Somewhere between ~2,400 to 3,000 Meters).

Sbooker said:

Interesting talk about altitude sickness. I’ve only stayed as high as Snowmass but have been there a few times. I’ve never had one hint of it. Nor has any of my family. And we live at sea level.

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It's individual physiology, maybe genetic, not related much at all to fitness. The people who die on Kilimanjaro are 20-40 year old jock types who think they can do it fast but have altitude sensitivity and get cerebral or pulmonary edema.

ChrisC said:

I always pop some Advil before hiking above 12,000 ft for prevention.

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Yes, 12,000 is the number for both Adam and me where we will not function well climbing without multiple days sleeping at elevation. Adam's experience above Tioga Pass July 3, 2011 after just 2 nights sleeping at Mammoth is illustrative. We also had only 2 nights at Mammoth before taking on Mt. Whitney Labor Day weekend 1999. We were taking Diamox for that one.

EMSC said:

Basically it's pretty variable, but plenty of random folks can be affected. I've heard two different altitudes over the years that medical types talk about. Some say over 8K feet, others say altitude sickness is concern over 10K feet (Somewhere between ~2,400 to 3,000 Meters).

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By observation of many people over decades of skiing, only the more sensitive people will have problems sleeping at 8,000 feet (Aspen, Vail, Mammoth, Snowbird). Over 9,000 (that includes the entire mass tourist Mecca of Summit County CO) most people will notice it and about a quarter will be uncomfortable enough to degrade the experience on a short trip. My ex was in this category at Crested Butte in 1992 and Taos in 1993, so on her last trip to that sleep altitude in 1997 at Keystone she took Diamox to prevent the more severe issues.

EMSC said:

There are also occasions when newcomers to Colorado have had to pack up and leave after a month or two because they could not adjust even at Denver's low altitude.

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You mean just walking around doing everyday-life things? Wow, I never heard that.

jamesdeluxe said:

Wow, I never heard that.

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My college friend Bob lived in Denver late 80's and early 90's. They had their two kids while living there and bought a condo at Keystone. I skied with Bob at A-Basin in 1987 and 1991. Sometime after that he developed a condition where if he rested at Keystone, his heart rate would drop to 29, so he would be gasping for air and could not sleep there at all. So they left Denver and he got a pacemaker. They did not sell the Keystone condo immediately. I stayed there without him in 1995 and 1997.

Tony Crocker said:

Over 9,000 (that includes the entire mass tourist Mecca of Summit County CO) most people will notice it and about a quarter will be uncomfortable enough to degrade the experience

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I had some very good friends of my family have to move from Breck (house at exactly 10K feet) because one of them couldn't get good sleep anymore. This was as they aged (into mid-70's). They are now in their 80's and living in Red Lodge, MT at under 6K feet.

Yes, i have seen this in my own parent. They lived in Silverthorne after retirement, however as they aged the high altitude affected my father and they relocated to Denver suburbs.

Sbooker said:

Interesting talk about altitude sickness. I’ve only stayed as high as Snowmass but have been there a few times. I’ve never had one hint of it. Nor has any of my family. And we live at sea level. We’ve always had time in SLC prior though.

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Having at least a few days in SLC at 4500 ft can help a lot. Compared to flying straight to Denver and driving into the mountains the same day. People from the flatlands going to ski Colorado for the first time are often advised to consider sleeping the first night near Denver. Essentially all lodging for I-70 resorts is at 9000 ft or higher.

I can handle going straight to Alta Lodge, which is around 8000 ft. But it takes 2-3 days to get fully adjusted. Meaning that I can sleep through the night without having to get up to pee 4-5 times. Or stop for a restroom break about once an hour while skiing. If I sleep in Sandy/Midvale, I'm fine after the first 24 hours.

When I go to Taos, slopeside lodging is around 9000 ft. I always stay in town at 7000 ft for at least a couple nights first.

One reason I had little interest in skiing in Colorado when I only had time for a single mid-season 1-week ski trip was the high altitude. Went with my husband when he had a conference in Denver in late March during that period. After a few days, I drove up to Loveland Pass just to take a look around. The short walk from the parking area can be only 5 minutes. Took me a lot longer because I was so out of breath at 11,991 ft.

I was in Colorado this summer for 2 weeks. Stayed in a mix of elevations ranging from 5500-9200 feet. It took exactly 14 days to get fully acclimated to Denver elevation. I have found that the most telling sport for acclimatization is lap swimming as you can’t really increase one’s respiratory rate. It was only at day 14 that I could lap swim and not feel air hungry.

jamesdeluxe said:

I look forward to hearing about his reaction to a rando (well-informed as you are) questioning his choices. Maybe he'll take it in a professional way and engage in a cordial dialogue?

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Ben/Peakrankings sends out update emails and asks for feedback, promising to respond. (Comparatively, the emails are less snarky than Stuart's/Storm Journal (his tone, although humorous, sometimes goes too far for an entire article, which annoys me)). I have written him before.

Most of his other trips appear to be fine. People can ski together or do their own thing—nothing to say.

I was going to recommend certain Gold Hill Chutes and bail-out suggestions. And how does he plan to enter the Bear Creek Backcountry - does he have a map? Gear? I know the photographer who created all the maps that are not always available in stores.

Also, Silverton heads into Unguided Season. Since Silverton is closed Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, he should have tried to schedule their first day there for Thursday to set themselves up for easy powder pickings if it snows earlier—no hiking required. Instead, you are going to have the masses tracking everything up. Can they shift anything schedule-wise?


For example, I would not want to take six people down Gold Hill #8 - too narrow. They would slough snow from above, causing a fall. I barely want one skier above me.



Take them down something with some room - like Gold Hill #6. Steep, but wider - no train wrecks.


We will see....

His plans just struck me as overly aggressive - especially when you don't know everyone's abilities and tolerances.

Anyways, I'll share the: F-off rando! He's free to say whatever.

I created a quick chart that outlines what to expect when hiking/climbing/skiing regarding Altitude Sickness with a group. Again, it is highly individualistic and can subside with rest, medication, and decreasing elevation, etc.

ChrisC said:

I created a quick chart that outlines what to expect when hiking/climbing/skiing regarding Altitude Sickness with a group

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That is surprisingly linear. I would have expected biology/physiology to be a bit less linear.

EMSC said:

That is surprisingly linear. I would have expected biology/physiology to be a bit less linear.

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This was just rough data from the web. It's a smoothed/fitted line from a bunch of data points.

What shape do you expect or want? Some Stair-steps? Oxygen Saturation in the Blood is linear.
Perhaps the incidence of altitude sickness would not be linear because those who do not get sick are going higher - self selection. I think it would be difficult to do studies including populations above 12k.


Acute mountain sickness
AMS is the most common form of altitude illness, affecting, for example, 25% of all visitors sleeping at altitudes >2,450 m (>8,000 ft) in Colorado.

Diagnosis

Diagnosis of AMS is based on a history of recent ascent to high altitude and the presence of subjective symptoms. AMS symptoms are like those of an alcohol hangover; headache is the cardinal symptom, usually accompanied by ≥1 of the following: anorexia, dizziness, fatigue, nausea, or, occasionally, vomiting. Uncommonly, AMS presents without headache. Symptom onset is usually 2–12 hours after initial arrival at a high altitude or after ascent to a higher elevation and often during or after the first night. Preverbal children with AMS can develop loss of appetite, irritability, and pallor. AMS generally resolves within 12–48 hours if travelers do not ascend farther.

Oxygen Saturation in the Blood

Figure 3.5.1: Expected range of arterial oxygen saturations on ascent to high altitudes, after 1–2 days of acclimatization
SOURCE: "From NEJM, A Luks and P Hackett, Medical conditions and high-altitude travel; 386(4):364–73. Copyright © (2022) Massachusetts Medical Society. Reprinted with permission."

ChrisC said:

What shape do you expect or want?

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Not necessarily a shape I want. Just that biological systems rarely behave linearly. I figured it would show either that AMS symptoms in the population either increase rapidly (Steep at first, then flatter); or that it would show low incidence until 14K or so feet then steep curve.

Didn't know what to expect exactly, just that almost exactly linear was not it.