2023-24 Season Plans

[ChrisC]

You have to keep in mind that St. Anton is a completely different kettle of fish from Lech/Zürs/Warth. St. Anton is the Austrian version of Alta/Snowbird with much higher powder competition, lots of expert terrain onpiste and off, and a big après-ski scene.

The worst agro-powder competition in Europe is nowhere near as bad as Alta/Snowbird or Jackson Hole.

I thought Grands Montets/Chamonix is the worst - outside of vertical drop - it's a relatively small area for Europe (smaller than Jackson - maybe even Snowbird and Alta) - yet the entire Chamonix Valley descends upon it on a powder day.

Verbier (8-16" new) was somewhat busy on a weekday morning , but no lines. After a 3-hour rush, it emptied out. Not skied out.

St. Anton (6-18" new on 3 mornings) - very busy on powder days in St. Anton proper when they could not open the upper lifts. But everyone makes their way quickly to Zurs! Zurs connects as efficiently to St. Anton as Lech by lifts. Or Stuben.

Other places in Europe: almost no competition in Ischgl, St. Moritz, Davos, Andermatt, Engelberg, Laax/Flims, Arosa/Lenzerheide, Zermatt, Courmayeur, La Grave, Les 2 Alpes, Serre Chevalier.

I thought Val d'Isere/Tignes and 3 Vallees were moderately busy off-piste - not crazy, but not vacant.

If I had to give "Powder Panic" awards to 3 areas in Europe: 1. Chamonix/Les Grands Montets, 2. St. Anton and 3. Verbier. But these are still far from North American experiences where everything gets tracked by noon.




My favorite choices in ski life in the morning: Whistler Village - Whistler or Blackcomb?, St. Anton - Rendl, St. Anton - Kapall, Valluga....or make your way to Stuben or Zurs?

 

[ChrisC]

Those guides from Cham that broke my confidence in Courmayeur in January this year have cured me of gnarly skiing I think.

I still want to know where they took you skiing in Courmayeur. Thought I saw some photos in the woods. WTH?! No one goes to the Alps to ski the trees. It's a snowy day thing or two. I was only in the woods briefly near the treeling of Courmayeur coming down from the bowls - maybe 500 vertical ft. Anyways, you will not get a repeat of that misadventure.

Arlberg - they will take you to open powder fields/bowls/faces. The only trees I skied were from the Summit of Stuben - Albonagat - through bowls into woods going to Langen. Easy skiing on powder days.

I realized I've lost some tree skiing skills/comfort over the years. Pacific Coast trees in Washington/Oregon/California are really wide open. Telluride has been selectively clearing trees all over. Northeast trees are small and cause less injury. Japan is easier too. But I do not like North American regrowth from logging - very tight - especially if I do not know the terrain.

 

[Tony Crocker]

We found the tree skiing in the Alps this year: the larch forests in Sauze d'Oulx and Serre Chevalier mentioned on the Powderhounds website. We told ChrisC about those too! But those are exception to the rule. I had never seen any tree skiing in Europe that appealed to me until this recent trip.

The easterners think I'm wimpy about the trees as I'm used to those well spaced at Baldy. Most places in the Rockies have maybe 500 vertical below tree line with decent spacing, then close out below that. The region that is best IMHO is interior Northwest/"Powder Highway." In terms of larger areas, Red Mt., Schweitzer, Fernie and Whitefish specifically. Even better are several of the cat/heli places in the Selkirks and Monashees.

But I do not like North American regrowth from logging - very tight - especially if I do not know the terrain.

+1 Revelstoke is Exhibit A. There is no question in my mind that Mt. MacKenzie was logged and that's why the trees there are conspicuously tighter than in the surrounding cat/heli tenures.

 

[Sbooker]

I still want to know where they took you skiing in Courmayeur. Thought I saw some photos in the woods. WTH?! No one goes to the Alps to ski the trees. It's a snowy day thing or two. I was only in the woods briefly near the treeling of Courmayeur coming down from the bowls - maybe 500 vertical ft. Anyways, you will not get a repeat of that misadventure.

I was disorientated. By looking at the trail map I’m sure the skiing through the trees was down to Val Veny. All I know is it was very step with very tight trees and there were lots of obstacles like tree roots to try avoid.
They did take us on some really nice runs prior to that. A couple of lovely steepish areas with nice snow.

Arlberg - they will take you to open powder fields/bowls/faces. The only trees I skied were from the Summit of Stuben - Albonagat - through bowls into woods going to Langen. Easy skiing on powder days.

Sounds good. The guiding in Tignes was generally in open areas which I was very comfortable with.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

No one goes to the Alps to ski the trees.

As a general rule, that's correct although I've logged a fair number of exceptions due to having visited many mostly intermediate, low-elevation ski areas that you wouldn't bother with. Of course, in addition to visibility on storm days , the other key reason that North Americans tend to ski trees is because that's the last place where the snow gets tracked out. The Alps' huge amount of open terrain at non-"powder panic" (<-- that's a helpful term ) ski areas, which is most of them, doesn't get pillaged so quickly.

 

[ChrisC]

We found the tree skiing in the Alps this year: the larch forests in Sauze d'Oulx and Serre Chevalier mentioned on the Powderhounds website. We told ChrisC about those too! But those are exception to the rule. I had never seen any tree skiing in Europe that appealed to me until this recent trip.

I would say the Larch forests of the Southern French/Italian Alps are an exception.

La Grave 2005 - we skied the woods/Larches a lot in late January (Serre Che, La Grave). It's good.

Switzerland is weird - trees are outlawed - you're skiing scares the animals. ?! I had a vet on my Andermatt ski camp - she was like: 'How do you deal with the animals in Colorado?" Me: there are so many - we want them to get out of our way??? We are not going to close gladed skiing for fear of a Fox.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Switzerland is weird - trees are outlawed - you're skiing scares the animal

For years now in Austria, they've had this environmental initiative at ski areas with variations of this sign, usually in dark green and often only in German.

I can't tell you the number of times I'd stood in front of them and tried to figure out what the hell "It's also your forest" is supposed to mean. I assume it's implying that you should treat the forest protectively, as you would your own property, and not destroy flora or fauna.

Sometimes, like at gorgeous Hochkönig, the signs are just "skiing in the forest is forbidden!" with no explanation why:

Other times, there's lengthy messaging: this one mentions grouse birds who bury themselves in snow to save energy, deer who are frightened away from feeding areas, and young seedlings that are destroyed by skiers/boarders and prevented from regenerating. The last reason seems to be the most convincing.

 

[Sbooker]

I don’t know if this coming October qualifies as 23/24 plans but I have just booked flights in and out of Auckland the in early October. The hope is to drive to Mt Ruapehu and get a few days in but the weather is often terrible which can shut down the mountain. In that case I’ll do some other touristy things. I’m assuming last minute accommodation should be easy to get at that time of year.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Mt. Ruapehu is the southern hemisphere counterpart to Mt. Bachelor: isolated volcanic peak with chronic wind and intense rime.

For the past 3 years I have the number of days Bachelor's Summit has been open per month. 3 years is a small sample size but here's what it's been so far:
Dec. 3%
Jan. 40%
Feb. 30%
Mar. 56%
Apr. 48%
May 65%

Word of mouth from locals has been "open about half the time." Odds increase in spring but only moderately.

I wonder how Whakapapa and Turoa compare? Those areas don't have lifts to the top but they are 100% above tree line. Also, unlike Bachelor, Ruapehu is still an active volcano.

I’m assuming last minute accommodation should be easy to get at that time of year.

I would guess those places are weekend concentrated and can be quite busy. In another thread I observed that Whakapapa's lift infrastructure has been only modestly upgraded since I skied there in 1982. I would definitely try to ski those places midweek.

 

[ChrisC]

For years now in Austria, they've had this environmental initiative at ski areas with variations of this sign, usually in dark green and often only in German.

In Andermatt Switzerland, the Ski Patrol is known to be quite vigilant in enforcement of the 'wild forest' zones. Fines are significantt. Our guide said not to try it.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

In Andermatt Switzerland, the Ski Patrol is known to be quite vigilant in enforcement of the 'wild forest' zones. Fines are significantt. Our guide said not to try it.

Interesting. I've never seen or heard about it being enforced in any of the Alps countries.

 

[EMSC]

So it begins:

Very Specialty racers-only gear/rep sale up in summit county. Still several pieces of gear to pick up, but well on our way.

 

[q]

2024 Ski Trip

Well, nothing is ever fully set in stone I guess but I fly out to Seattle on Friday 1st March 2024. I will stay in Des Moines and race the Des Moines Creek 5k Parkrun on the Saturday morning before heading cross country to Philipsburg MT where I will most likely base myself for the duration. I then leave Philipsburg on Monday 1st April to head back to Seattle where I fly home from on Tuesday 2nd.

I have friends heading over I think for the last 2 weeks of the Discovery season so I will see them for a week before I head home. Here's to another excellent season!