Been following this board for years, but this is my first post. I'm looking for some advice on a possible trip west next year. My family and I have been skiing Jay Peak in VT since the kids were teeny, and while we love Jay, we're starting to want something new. The kids (11 and 9) are good enough that it could be time to head west. But they're also getting old enough that it's increasingly difficult to pull them from school for a ski week. The only week they get off that I'm also free is over the Christmas holidays. The money it would cost to fly the whole family west is another consideration, particularly over the holidays. A possible solution is the perhaps mildly insane idea of driving (!) the whole family west from Pennsylvania, where we live, to someplace in Colorado or Wyoming or maybe, at a stretch, Utah. Within that range we could make the drive in about 3 days each way, giving us still probably about 7 ski days if we pull the kids from school a day or two on one end or the other of the Christmas break. So the question is: where to go? We're pretty solid skiers, though not as aggressive as we used to be. My wife and I have skied Jackson, Alta, Breckenridge, and Winter Park (she's also skied Taos and Mammoth and Switzerland). We probably enjoyed Jackson and Alta the most of those places. Our 11-year old is quite good, and would enjoy a real challenge. He skis all the unmarked trails off the ridge at the top of Jay with no problem. I suspect he could handle a lot of what Jackson has to offer. Maybe not Corbet's, though he thinks he could! The younger would likely ski a lot of blues and not too challenging blacks out west (he's just progressing to Jay's black runs). I worry a little that they may find really deep powder (Little Cottonwood) tough, but maybe not. Other criteria: something that's not too insanely crowded over Christmas; something that's as likely as possible to have decent snow early in the season; something we can drive to without crossing any major passes, given that we're driving a mini-van, and would rather not re-enact the Donner party. I suspect these things might be mutually exclusive, as something with reliable early season snow that's not too far off the beaten path and therefore driveable is also likely to attract the most holiday crowds. I had been eyeing Jackson, but recently read some stuff on this site suggesting that it might be pretty nuts over Christmas (I've never been there that time of year), plus I suspect there are areas that have more reliable early season snow, based on the stats on bestsnow.net. Anyone have any particular suggestions? Last thought - one option might be to just wait until December and see how the snow is shaping up before booking lodging. A brief look this year suggested there was still a little availability in the condos at Jackson as late as mid-December for the Christmas holidays. But perhaps leaving it until then would be pretty risky? Would love to hear what the long-time users of this site think....
Advice on driving west to ski
- Thread starter rufus
- Start date
rufus":3jg049t7 said:
Rufus, first of all, welcome to Liftlines. Apologies for my tardiness in approving your first post. Your further posts will no longer be moderated. We have to do that to avoid spam posts, which would quickly take over these forums if we didn't moderate a user's first post.
Second, with all due respect I think you're nuts. And that's coming from someone who has driven cross-country multiple times, in all seasons. All you need is one winter storm in the Plains states and your timing is all screwed up. Three days is reasonable (perhaps even a bit generous to Colorado's Front Range -- I made it from Albany to SLC in 3 days driving a Penske truck towing a car, including a blizzard from Albany to Ohio), but that's on dry roads. If you've never crossed the high plains of western Nebraska or Wyoming in a snowstorm you can't possibly imagine how bad it can be. Stretches of I-80 in those two states frequently close due to weather, and often for days at a time. And when that happens in Wyoming, there really isn't a viable alternative route. I'd never give any consideration to driving west to ski from the East unless you're not on any schedule whatsoever.
Keep shopping around for airfare -- you can still find good prices if you watch fare trends and book at the right time. I got my mother out here from Providence, RI (which is not the cheapest airport to fly out of) last month on Dec. 21, and returning on Jan. 5 for around $360 round-trip including taxes and fees (Southwest). She got a slight discount as she's a senior, but not a big one. I got her that ticket 3-4 weeks in advance. Any airports serviced by Southwest are likely to have cheaper airfares than those that don't, plus Southwest still doesn't charge extra for checked baggage -- the only U.S. airline to not charge. That's even a larger factor if you plan to check skis. In Gettysburg you're close enough to Baltimore/Washington to consider BWI, DCA or IAD as a departure airport, any of which would allow you to select a non-stop (and relatively cheap) flight to SLC or DEN on Southwest.
rufus":3jg049t7 said:
IMO your adversity to holiday crowds clearly rules out the Front Range of Colorado, further complicating your idea of driving. It's pricey to fly into Jackson, so the cheaper flying option would be to drive the 5 hours from SLC if you're dead set on going there. But if you're doing that, why not ski Utah and skip the 10 hours of driving round-trip? The holiday crowds in the Cottonwoods are eminently manageable assuming that Utah isn't the only place to get early snow, as was the case this past Christmas. And you've got 10 resorts within 75 minutes of SLC, 7 of which are in the 30-45 minute range. Lodging is cheap in the Valley (you can still find rooms without roaches for ~$50/night) and always has availability. The savings on lodging alone will pay for your airfare.
rufus":3jg049t7 said:
Bingo. And airfare, too. In that case, maybe no later than late November instead of early December.
Having done a fair amount of plains snowstorm driving, I second Admin's thoughts on the subject. High winds and a color pallet that make it almost impossible to discern the road, from the plains, from the sky, can make for driving that is every bit as white- knuckle as mountain driving.
No spring break?
Our family went to Banff for Spring break last year at the end of March and beginning of April. The favorable exchange rate and the abundance of very affordable lodging option in Banff (it is mostly a summer resort town) more than made up the difference in airfare to fly to Calgary rather than Denver or SLC. Booked through Ski 3 Banff, our costs on the ground for 8 nights lodging in a very dated, but comfortable, 2BR condo and 5 days lift tickets (good at all 3 area resorts) for 2 adults and our 9-year old daughter were under $1,300 U.S. We're considering returning this Spring and it looks like our costs may be a bit higher this year, I think mostly because more of our break this year overlaps with Easter weekend.
IMO Banff would be too dark and likely too cold for many at Christmas. With its comparatively moderate snowfall, Banff is also not usually the best early-season destination. The latitude and altitudes favor the Canadian Rockies in late Winter/early Spring. We found conditions were just about perfect for a variety of activities: predominately midwinter up at SSV and LL, but the valleys were starting to bloom, making for fun easy hiking with good wildlife viewing down low.
Crowds weren't much of an issue, even with the Calgary public schools on Spring break also. For example, on Good Friday, at SSV, with the parking lot full, lift lines were short all over the hill and without intimate knowledge of the resort, I was able to find and ski several laps of this early in the afternoon:
No spring break?
Our family went to Banff for Spring break last year at the end of March and beginning of April. The favorable exchange rate and the abundance of very affordable lodging option in Banff (it is mostly a summer resort town) more than made up the difference in airfare to fly to Calgary rather than Denver or SLC. Booked through Ski 3 Banff, our costs on the ground for 8 nights lodging in a very dated, but comfortable, 2BR condo and 5 days lift tickets (good at all 3 area resorts) for 2 adults and our 9-year old daughter were under $1,300 U.S. We're considering returning this Spring and it looks like our costs may be a bit higher this year, I think mostly because more of our break this year overlaps with Easter weekend.
IMO Banff would be too dark and likely too cold for many at Christmas. With its comparatively moderate snowfall, Banff is also not usually the best early-season destination. The latitude and altitudes favor the Canadian Rockies in late Winter/early Spring. We found conditions were just about perfect for a variety of activities: predominately midwinter up at SSV and LL, but the valleys were starting to bloom, making for fun easy hiking with good wildlife viewing down low.
Crowds weren't much of an issue, even with the Calgary public schools on Spring break also. For example, on Good Friday, at SSV, with the parking lot full, lift lines were short all over the hill and without intimate knowledge of the resort, I was able to find and ski several laps of this early in the afternoon:
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jamesdeluxe
Administrator
Is that Goat's Eye? ^^^
Thanks for the feedback! I guess I'm not too surprised to hear that the idea of driving is even more insane than I thought it might be (and my wife always appreciates it when other people agree with her that I'm nuts). Guess I'm also not surprised to hear Admin suggest SLC as a destination! But interesting that you've found such low flight prices even around Christmas, and it's good to know that the crowds aren't usually crazy that time of year at the SLC resorts. I'll definitely check that out. We fly Southwest out of BWI a fair bit, and it's generally quite convenient. If going to SLC, I would have gravitated towards avoiding a rental car, just picking one resort, and hunkering down there for the week (maybe Goldminer's Daughter?). But the idea of staying in the valley with much cheaper lodging is worth considering. Downside seems to be more driving and fighting the traffic up the canyons each morning. Upside is saving cash and having more choices of where to ski. Totally agree that flying into SLC just to do a round-trip drive to Jackson makes little sense. Flyover: love the idea of Banff, but spring break isn't an option (unfortunately). PA doesn't have a spring or winter week off for the kids, and my own ability to take time off in the spring is limited. And I think you are correct that Banff over Christmas may not be ideal. Thanks again!
I'm not especially advocating Utah, per se, but it really does fit with what you're looking for. If you choose accommodations on the ski bus route in Fort Union, for example, you still don't need a rental car. And that way you leave the driving up Canyon to someone else anyway. It's really not that big a deal. If you package those accommodations with a Ski Salt Lake Super Pass, that way you have lift tickets good at four different resorts to choose from.
Marc_C
Active member
I would still get a rental as dining options and night life (even if it's a movie) can be quite limited if you need to walk from you lodging. And you can certainly save money on the rental if you'll take the UTA ski bus on the days that require 4x4/chains.Admin":2w1nttyj said:
+1. LCC traffic issues are really overblown in visitor's minds. We locals might complain about it, but we complain whenever the experience is anything less than perfect!Admin":2w1nttyj said:
I have never heard of school districts with no spring break. A Google search for Pennsylvania revealed that both Phildelphia and Pittsburgh get Easter Week in 2016. With Easter being March 27, this is an outstanding time to ski in many resorts.
Now is far from too late to arrange something. I agree SLC can't be beat for the ratio of ski quality to expense.
I know I'm rather militant on this subject but I lived this advice with my own kids, one a very avid skier. Nearly all the one week destination trips were during his spring break and virtually never do you have put up with the excessive crowds, price gouging and sometimes inadequate snow of Christmas Week.
This is a recurring issue for families. If you can't make it happen this year, start planning for the future so you're not in this box every year.
Now is far from too late to arrange something. I agree SLC can't be beat for the ratio of ski quality to expense.
I know I'm rather militant on this subject but I lived this advice with my own kids, one a very avid skier. Nearly all the one week destination trips were during his spring break and virtually never do you have put up with the excessive crowds, price gouging and sometimes inadequate snow of Christmas Week.
This is a recurring issue for families. If you can't make it happen this year, start planning for the future so you're not in this box every year.
TC- Not sure about Philly and Pittsburgh, but our schools just give a long weekend over Easter. And that often gets trimmed because they use those days for snow day makeups. And it's kind of irrelevant, because I can't take time off work then anyway (I teach at a college, and our spring break doesn't coincide with Easter). Up until now, we've always just taken the kids out of school during my spring break weeks in early March, for precisely the reasons you describe, and headed north to Jay. And we've found that timing to be fantastic for skiing - two years ago we caught a joyous week with over 3 feet of fresh and the best glade skiing I've ever had at Jay. But as the kids head into middle school, we're getting more and more pushback about yanking them for a week to ski. Seems they don't view a ski week as being a legitimate "educational field trip." Go figure. Of course, one option is to just tell the schools to kiss off and go skiing in March anyway!
jamesdeluxe
Administrator
Admin":26zgded3 said:
Never a dull moment around here.
EMSC
Well-known member
flyover":c1gfdxtm said:
He doesn't even have to go to Austria. Growing up, my home school district complained bitterly and drove my parents nuts whenever we even left a period early for evening race training let alone taking a few days off to do a multi-day race (like a DH with mandatory weekday training). At one point my parents moved my older brother an hour away (my parents had a small townhouse at the ski area 8 miles from there) and into that school district which was totally fine with that scheduling need for a student athlete.
Some school districts simply have little to no common sense. And most of the rest are getting to the point of ever less common sense in recent years IMO.
At least you're not in the UK, where parents are fined heavily for taking kids out of school. But of course the UK schools get a mid-February week AND Easter Week off. The former is notorious in the French Alps for being as crowded and pricey as Christmas, but at least it's in peak season with usually optimal snow conditions.
Some US schools similarly get President's Week. And some schools with few breaks after Christmas get 3 weeks at Christmas, allowing people to ski a week before Christmas or after New Year's. At any rate, having no week breaks Jan-Apr AND being limited to Dec. 36-31 for Christmas puts this school district in a <1% minority IMHO. So In that scenario I'd continue taking that early March week, at least until the kids hit high school. And I'd point out that rare minority status if they push back.
Another option is to extend MLK or President's weekend and only take kids out of school a couple of days instead of a whole week. I did this occasionally with Adam until high school. From the East you're probably limited to Denver or Salt Lake in this scenario to not lose a ski day to travel, but that's still worth doing.
Some US schools similarly get President's Week. And some schools with few breaks after Christmas get 3 weeks at Christmas, allowing people to ski a week before Christmas or after New Year's. At any rate, having no week breaks Jan-Apr AND being limited to Dec. 36-31 for Christmas puts this school district in a <1% minority IMHO. So In that scenario I'd continue taking that early March week, at least until the kids hit high school. And I'd point out that rare minority status if they push back.
Another option is to extend MLK or President's weekend and only take kids out of school a couple of days instead of a whole week. I did this occasionally with Adam until high school. From the East you're probably limited to Denver or Salt Lake in this scenario to not lose a ski day to travel, but that's still worth doing.
Hi Everyone, I've been lurking around here for some time now as well. Thanks Admin for everything you do. You have contributed much to the enjoyment of my family skiing Alta.
I have been bringing my one or both of my kids to Alta for the past six years. I always take them out of school to avoid the holiday crowd. Getting a family to Alta could not be easier. "Exploring Wasatch National Forest" is my go to euphemism to make the ski trip educational. We liketo arrive a day early typically Saturday, and spend time in SLC. We take Trax from the airport to a downtown hotel and do a little sightseeing on Sunday. Its educational! You would also be surprised how much a day at 4000 feet can help your skiing legs on day one. Alta Shuttle to Goldminer's on Monday morning, ski five days, shuttle to the airport Friday for a red-eye and be home for lunch on Saturday. It couldn't be easier. And it is too much fun!!
I have been bringing my one or both of my kids to Alta for the past six years. I always take them out of school to avoid the holiday crowd. Getting a family to Alta could not be easier. "Exploring Wasatch National Forest" is my go to euphemism to make the ski trip educational. We liketo arrive a day early typically Saturday, and spend time in SLC. We take Trax from the airport to a downtown hotel and do a little sightseeing on Sunday. Its educational! You would also be surprised how much a day at 4000 feet can help your skiing legs on day one. Alta Shuttle to Goldminer's on Monday morning, ski five days, shuttle to the airport Friday for a red-eye and be home for lunch on Saturday. It couldn't be easier. And it is too much fun!!
q
Member
Mr Crocker is slightly bending some truths.
The UK does have rules regarding attendance at school and technically you can be fined for unauthorised absence from school. However most reasonable requests through a head teacher seems to be granted. It seems more a law to ensure parents stop truancy.
Indeed a recent court ruling made it clear that missing a week of school did not amount to enough to fine someone as 5 days off for an otherwise regular school attendee was insufficient.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -time.html
Scottish schools I believe also only get 3 days off in February and time off at easter
The UK does have rules regarding attendance at school and technically you can be fined for unauthorised absence from school. However most reasonable requests through a head teacher seems to be granted. It seems more a law to ensure parents stop truancy.
Indeed a recent court ruling made it clear that missing a week of school did not amount to enough to fine someone as 5 days off for an otherwise regular school attendee was insufficient.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -time.html
Scottish schools I believe also only get 3 days off in February and time off at easter
We live in PA and our kids do not get a full week out of school for President's week or Spring Break/Easter. I think our kids get 3 days off at Easter this year. An additional problem is that we do not have days set aside for snow days, so when such events happen, President's Day (now gone because of last weekend's storm) and/or the days at Easter break are lost. They certainly can't extend the school year which would disrupt the vacation plans of the masses who need to go to the Jersey Shore in June. [-X
I had no problem taking them out of school for a week when they were in elementary school. But that becomes more disruptive as they get later in middle school/high school.
I had no problem taking them out of school for a week when they were in elementary school. But that becomes more disruptive as they get later in middle school/high school.
q's reference above is an interesting read. The parents in the cited court case paid spent £1,000 on lawyers' fees to avoid paying £120 in fines.
IMHO £120 in fines is probably cheap vs. the costs of a one week ski trip during a peak holiday week vs. another time. However,
IMHO £120 in fines is probably cheap vs. the costs of a one week ski trip during a peak holiday week vs. another time. However,