American Election 2024

S

Sbooker

Well-known member
I am conscious that political discussion may be a little unwelcome on this site so I’ve chosen this thread as it’s touched on political things previously.
I’m really curious what the reaction is on the ground to last week? Here in Oz even politically apathetic people have suddenly become engaged to US politics.
My question is why did the Dems not see this coming? The rest of the world could. Now we’re facing the unthinkable. (I get that 80 million Americans and probably some reading this won’t see another Trump presidency as unthinkable. Apologies if I have offended anyone).
 
Sbooker said:
I am conscious that political discussion may be a little unwelcome on this site so I’ve chosen this thread as it’s touched on political things previously.
I’m really curious what the reaction is on the ground to last week? Here in Oz even politically apathetic people have suddenly become engaged to US politics.
My question is why did the Dems not see this coming? The rest of the world could. Now we’re facing the unthinkable. (I get that 80 million Americans and probably some reading this won’t see another Trump presidency as unthinkable. Apologies if I have offended anyone).
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Can we can discuss this cordially? I think we can because we've established a small, friendly online community over a shared love of skiing.

I consider myself a political independent, but I usually vote for conservatives/Republicans. I'm displeased with both candidates at the top of the ticket for America's next general election. My dilemma is that one is a nice, old man who supports many policies that I don't like. The other is an egotistical jerk who supports a few policies that I do like. I think the country will survive four more years under whoever wins and I hope by then new leadership will emerge with the ability to reach across the political aisle to develop consensus on some of our most pressing issues.
 
jimk said:
Can we can discuss this cordially? I think we can because we've established a small, friendly online community over a shared love of skiing.

I consider myself a political independent, but I usually vote for conservatives/Republicans. I'm displeased with both candidates at the top of the ticket for America's next general election. My dilemma is that one is a nice, old man who supports many policies that I don't like. The other is an egotistical jerk who supports a few policies that I do like. I think the country will survive four more years under whoever wins and I hope by then new leadership will emerge with the ability to reach across the political aisle to develop consensus on some of our most pressing issues.
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I’m encouraged that you think there is light at the end of the tunnel. You have got a wonderful country in so many ways. It deserves to have good people pulling the levers.
 
As an American living in Canada, I wish both of these leaders would have recognized thats its time to pass the leadership to a younger generation. Ages 78 and 81 should not be running for this high stress, important and demanding position. I am sure the country can survive 4 years of either, however we have a lot of world issues that require their attention. I am concerned that neither is really up for the job.
 
As you know SBooker, America is not alone in what seems to be a global trend in the emergence of populist, right wing, reactionary type politicians in various democracies. It's a strange phenomena, somehow related to a disenfranchised lower-middle class.
 
jimk said:
As you know SBooker, America is not alone in what seems to be a global trend in the emergence of populist, right wing, reactionary type politicians in various democracies. It's a strange phenomena, somehow related to a disenfranchised lower-middle class.
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Yes. We had a populist right wing leader with a generally poor government before we traded them in for a well meaning but completely out of touch with reality progressive government in 2022. Our election next year could well see us in the hands of those on the right again….
 
Due to my current travels in Africa, I'm going to resist extensive engagement in this topic before I come home.

I suspect Sbooker is not offending anyone here, even our former admin if he were still around. I will say that his reaction is the same as essentially any foreigner who mentions the subject in our travels, here or in Europe. They are absolutely horrified. Our former admin may not care what the rest of the world thinks, but it does matter, particularly since the president is responsible for ~90% of foreign policy.

In Johannesburg we toured many sites related to South Africa’s struggle against apartheid. When our guide expressed his alarm at the US political situation, I commented that after all those years in prison, Nelson Mandela served one term as president, departing at …. age 81.
 
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jimk said:
I think the country will survive four more years under whoever wins and I hope by then new leadership will emerge with the ability to reach across the political aisle to develop consensus on some of our most pressing issues.
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I wish I were as optimistic about the part in bold. Culturally and politically, the U.S. is broken into two separate countries that don't understand or tolerate each other. Not sure how that'll be solved anytime soon.
 
We did politics at NYSB for about 2 years as an experiment several years ago and it created deep divisions that still remain, although they do seem to be fading. When one member (who lobbied hard for politics in the forum) said he couldn't stand it anymore, I killed it. That said maybe I shouldn't post here.

I'll leave Trump's motivations aside, except to say IMO he doesn't care too much about others, and he has few firmly held beliefs.

The real question is why does so much of the country support a guy who gives a middle finger to the system? If you leave the small number super rich out of it, who are potentially in it for the deregulation and tax cuts, it's because uneducated white males feel left behind by the natural progression of capitalism that continually widens income inequality. Many of those voters don't see the system working for them and don't care about preserving it. You can't blame them, or at least IMO it's understandable.

Building my house has been a real eye opener for me. I'm generally left of center (not as much as I used to be) and my builder will definitely vote for DJ again. But he's taught me something. He's everything I thought republicans stood for for years. Self-made, hard working, a great human. When covid happened he was having trouble getting the excavating he needed to continue building. He borrowed money to buy a excavator (not cheap) and set up his stepson in the excavating business. The son excavates for him and other builders. That to me is the kind of self-reliance that was part of the republican brand. It's forced me to reconsider stereotypes about Trump supporters.

He also cuts against what I said above in the third paragraph. The system has not really left him behind. He's building housing for the affluent and he's doing well. While I don't consider myself to be affluent, when you look at median HH income the US — the richest country in the world — we are in clearly in the upper half.

You can't really solve this problem by defeating Trump at the ballot box. The system has to be reconfigured to work for everyone, not just the wealthy. My own opinion on how to do this won't be popular > regulation. Capitalism, left on it's own, will continue to increase income inequality. AI will accelerate this.

The question "why didn't dems see it coming?" Of course we did. You can see it in poll numbers, few really like either choice. How would you propose I could have acted differently to get say Gretchen Whitmer — a 'young' articulate governor of a purple state — nominated? The system makes it hard to buck the machine.

I will say that dems have done some incredibly stupid shit. Everyone wants a secure border. It seems like the party has confused DJ's hateful rhetoric with solving the problem. They seem to have finally realized it, but way late.
 
Harvey said:
The system makes it hard to buck the machine.
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Good post Harvey.
I first voted in a presidential election in 1972. In that time I've repeatedly been surprised at the long shots that emerged to become president, such as Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Obama. This seemed like evidence that the tried and true two party system could effectively elevate candidates from wide range of reasonable sources. But that machine seems to be broken in recent years. When a far right minority of the GOP can keep pushing Trump to the fore and when an intractable, monolithic Dem party can't pivot away from an octogenarian in decline it seems to me that the two party system is letting the country down in recent years.

I'm not a blind Joe Manchin fanboy, but I like this idea from him that I read in a CNN story today:

[it’s become clear after my 14 years in Washington, DC, that our national politics are broken and both parties are finding it more difficult to compromise and find any common ground. It’s not just me who sees this as a problem: According to a 2023 Pew Research Center survey, 86% of Americans agreed that “Republicans and Democrats are more focused on fighting each other than on solving problems” is a “good description” of our political system.

We need a major overhaul of our extreme partisan system in which the Democratic and Republican parties have a duopoly on high-dollar donors, online fundraising and huge checks from political action committees (PACs).

Today, I am taking an important and immediate step to right one of those wrongs by turning my Country Roads PAC from one that has mostly given to the Democratic Party into a bipartisan PAC to support Democrats, Republicans and independents at all levels of government who are committed to working across the aisle to get stuff done,]
 
I am not commenting, except that you have a nice guy way past his prime versus narcissistic psycho that has a few lost marbles. As James, I’m also concerned that further national and international damage if Trump return to the White House. For example, 10 years ago, no one would believe that the US would roll back abortion rights back to the 1960s or have a President convicted of many crimes.
As a Canadian, there are many things alarming, one of them being the perceived judiciary biais. I’m amazed that you have Supreme Court judges that can accept gifts and fly questionable flags over their property. On a personal note, during my career in Canada Elections agency, I wasn’t allowed to give money, be member of a political party, put a sign on my lawn or any other actions that could be perceived as partisan.
edit: the biggest one, not recognizing the results of the elections and asking people to storm the capitol to stop the transfer of power.
 
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FWIW there's a serious problem with the voters.

And I might be part of the problem, I wonder. I'm a politics junkie... law junkie... fascinated by strategy. We're promised the answer with the passage of time [R or D]... [guilty or not guilty]...

Stop reading if you tend to avoid nuance.

How is it possible to re-elect W after accidentally invading the wrong country (Iraq)?

Why wasn't Trump's criminal defense strategy forthright? I'da suggested they just agree with everything Stormy Daniels and Cohen said. Kinda like agreeing about Trump calling Zelenskyy with a deal to be made. "Yes, that's my voice on the tape."

What I'm saying is Trump was acquitted 2 for 2 of impeachment. For things that were caught on tape. We all saw the Capitol on live TV. If he had strategized as if everything about Stormy Daniels was indeed caught on tape, so just admit it, then I think they woulda said not guilty...
 
It took em so long cuz they had it all written up and looking good, but then Gorsuch said they had to change a few things to prevent the opinion from exonerating Nixon...
 
If Biden were to abandon his run for reelection, everybody's asking who would replace him on the ticket?

Conversely, nobody's written about the process if VP Harris were the answer above: That she shouldn't so much be just the nominee. Wouldn't the obvious strategy be Biden resigns, Harris naturally becomes POTUS, Harris naturally selects VPOTUS? (Then later of course the November election still chooses who would be POTUS re January 2025 inauguration)

To get better at situational awareness and analysis, spend less time learning from what's there and spend more time learning from what's NOT there.
 
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It seems like the media, including liberal operations like NY Times and WaPo, won't let go of the idea of Biden stepping down. I think it's better than 50/50 now that he will step aside from the 2024 race. Logically, that means Harris will take his place at the top of the ticket. She's young and sharp, but further left than him. Unfortunately, that's not the way I lean. A centrist replacement would be of more interest to me.
 
jimk said:
It seems like the media, including liberal operations like NY Times and WaPo, won't let go of the idea of Biden stepping down.
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Agree. It also seems like the conservative media doesn't want him to step down. I interpret that to mean that both sides care more about winning then having a competent president.
 
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