Americans Moving to Florida?

My youngest daughter went to school in New Orleans. Go there in Aug. when you exit the airport it feels like someone wrapped you in hot wet towel.
Been to Hawaii twice. Damn I like that place.
Coldest place I have been to, London in March.
 
Coldest place I have been to, London in March.
Is that a corollary to Mark Twains: "the coldest winter I ever spent was summer in San Francisco" 🤣

I spent some Feb time in London and felt that it was cool but decent... Maybe I lucked out.

New Orleans. Go there in Aug. when you exit the airport it feels like someone wrapped you in hot wet towel.
Big no on that one!

I've had business in Vegas in summer before though. Feels like you are inside a pizza oven. It my not be humid, but its so ridiculously hot that it is very uncomfortable anyway.

Also lived in Atlanta where you could literally drink as much beer as you wanted at outdoor parties since you'd be drenched and sweat it out 5 min later even at midnight.
 
Is that a corollary to Mark Twains: "the coldest winter I ever spent was summer in San Francisco" 🤣

I spent some Feb time in London and felt that it was cool but decent... Maybe I lucked out.


Big no on that one!

I've had business in Vegas in summer before though. Feels like you are inside a pizza oven. It my not be humid, but its so ridiculously hot that it is very uncomfortable anyway.

Also lived in Atlanta where you could literally drink as much beer as you wanted at outdoor parties since you'd be drenched and sweat it out 5 min later even at midnight.
Interesting comparison. So did you find you perspired badly in the Vegas pizza oven like you did in the the Atlanta humidity?
 
So did you find you perspired badly in the Vegas pizza oven like you did in the the Atlanta humidity?
The reality is that you perspire at least as much in Vegas but won't notice it as much as most of it evaporates instead of soaking your clothing. So you need to be vigilant about both hydrating and electrolytes.

There are heat index tables measuring the increased risk with the humidity.
Apparent-temp_vs_air-temp_and_humidity.png

So 29C(84F) with 70% humidity is equivalent to 35C(95F) at 20% humidity.
And 32C(90F) with 70% humidity is equivalent to 43C(109F) at 20% humidity.
I'd guess those are typical humidity ranges for Atlanta and Vegas.
 
The reality is that you perspire at least as much in Vegas but won't notice it as much as most of it evaporates instead of soaking your clothing. So you need to be vigilant about both hydrating and electrolytes.

There are heat index tables measuring the increased risk with the humidity.
View attachment 41226
So 29C(84F) with 70% humidity is equivalent to 35C(95F) at 20% humidity.
And 32C(90F) with 70% humidity is equivalent to 43C(109F) at 20% humidity.
I'd guess those are typical humidity ranges for Atlanta and Vegas.
Interesting. I had no idea that you perspired a lot in dry heat but don’t notice it due to evaporation.
 
The evaporation is what cools your body and makes you more comfortable at higher temperatures with low humidity. But you need to keep up with it with hydration. On days like the past two at Mammoth it is not uncommon for me to hit the drinking fountain at every gondola but never need to pee all day.

I would be surprised if Sbooker has not experienced high heat low humidity desert conditions in the Outback.
 
I have mtb in Arizona and the deserts of Utah. I carry 3 times the amount of water with me. I always ran out. Oh these rides were early mornings temps in upper 70/low 80’s.
I had a conversation with my doc friend about dehydration. He said , when exercising you loose as much liquid breathing as sweating.
 
Feels like you are inside a pizza oven. It my not be humid, but its so ridiculously hot that it is very uncomfortable anyway.
My personal experience with living in desert environments is that "it's a dry heat" applies up to about 95 degrees. Above that, it doesn't matter and you get the unpleasant pizza-oven effect. Also, I generally lived in houses with swamp coolers, which are a fabulous invention -- a tenth of the electricity of AC and nothing that harms the environment -- however, they don't do much (or they didn't 30+ years ago) when the temp goes above the high 80s.

Of course, I preferred the two summers I spent teaching at the Thunderbird Lodge in Taos Ski Valley, torn down in 2007. Does anyone remember walking by it on the way to the lifts? From the length of the guy's long boards in the lower left hand corner and the cars in the pic below, that looks like a shot from the late 70s?

1715770647646.png
 
Sunny staters complain about bugs and humidity, but then want a pipeline from the Great Lakes (or where ever) to bring in the water they need to live in the desert. Big cities were built on rivers because that is a key ingredient for life.

This map is pretty dramatic:

 
Sunny staters complain about bugs and humidity, but then want a pipeline from the Great Lakes (or where ever) to bring in the water they need to live in the desert.
Yep. While living in Albuquerque, an older neighbor told me that he and many other people moved there in the 50s partially because his allergies were insane. Of course, the city and residents ended up planting trees brought in from the east, which negated that advantage. Even though I'm an avid golfer, it makes my head spin to see courses put into desert locations. Allegedly, they're irrigated with gray water but I wonder if that's always the case.
 
So did you find you perspired badly in the Vegas pizza oven like you did in the the Atlanta humidity?
you perspire at least as much in Vegas but won't notice it as much as most of it evaporates instead of soaking your clothing
Agreed. Especially when days are 114 and evenings are still over 100!

I have mtb in Arizona and the deserts of Utah. I carry 3 times the amount of water with me. I always ran out
Sounds about right.

they're irrigated with gray water but I wonder if that's always the case.
I doubt its always the case, but over the years a great many have switched to that. Interestingly, Arizona Ski Bowl also uses grey water from Flagstaff for their snowmaking systems.
 
I have mtb in Arizona and the deserts of Utah. I carry 3 times the amount of water with me. I always ran out. Oh these rides were early mornings temps in upper 70/low 80’s.
May through September in New Mexico, I made sure that my rides were done by 9 am. No CamelBaks back then!

Arizona Ski Bowl also uses grey water from Flagstaff for their snowmaking systems.
IIRC, that was a major issue for years with a local indigenous tribe.
 
would be surprised if Sbooker has not experienced high heat low humidity desert conditions in the Outback.
I’ve not spent much time there at all. Especially in the summer. I am leaving touring Oz extensively for when I have time ( multiple weeks and months) to do so with no work commitments.
 
high heat low humidity desert conditions in the Outback
The interwebz says Australia is the driest inhabited continent in the world with approximately 70% considered to be semi-arid, arid, or desert. This is what I always envision that most of it looks like (with a helpful soundtrack!).

3893824563_4305051374.jpg
 
Florida: Ugh. It's a ridiculous state.

It used to be like Horace Greeley said: "Go West, young man!" Now, Florida is the nation's escape valve.

I have a small home / rental property in Fort Lauderdale on a waterway—maybe 2.5 bedrooms in good sunlight. After the real estate crash, you could buy on the water/canal in FtL for 350-550k. I don't use it much, so I've let snowbirds (VRBO 1-3 month rentals / No AirBnb) pay my mortgage for the last 10+ years over the winter season. My parents are 20-30 minutes away in Boca Raton, so I visit them regularly. I visit between renters.

I (we) did a Florida residency (50%+1 time) for a year during COVID-19 because California did not open anything (2020-2022). Year 2 was a slog for a 9% tax bonus. I did appreciate Florida's open-air approach to the pandemic, but the state is uniquely situated for that.

Some good things:
  • Florida does have beautiful, accessible beaches. However, the Panhandle/Gulf Coast likely has the best ones - Naples, Pensacola, Destin, Sarasota-Anna Maria. SE Florida (Broward/Dade) is too urban, although I like Delray Beach.
  • Scuba Diving is decent/pretty good. The reefs are trashed but still have decent sea life. I like doing the wrecks of the keys: Spiegel Grove, Duane, Bibb, Eagle, Vandenberg, etc. The Goliath Grouper season is amazing on wrecks/reefs. Lots of sharks off of Jupiter - Lemon/Blacktip (migratory), Bulls and Hammerheads. There are lots of lobsters.
  • Tennis. Lots of courts.
  • Golf. I am horrible, but golfing along the public beach in Boca Raton is exceptional.
  • Caribbean Access. I spent $150 on JetBlue, SW, and Spirit - to Cuba, Barbados, Cancun, Belize, etc. Going to the Caribbean is a much better value than the Florida Keys. Key West is incredibly expensive at $400-600/night and is not very good.
  • Weather: November 1st to May 1st.
Some bad things:
  • Florida is scary politically. There are a lot of aggrieved Trump voters whose worldview is anti-Black, Gay, Trans, Tax, Disney. I doubt they like Trump; they are just angry. I try not to trigger when engaged. Florida north I-4 (Tampa-Orlando-Daytona) becomes Alabama/Mississippi - avoid besides beaches. I cannot tell you how many neighbors are trying to 'recruit' me based on my height, looks, maleness, etc - but they get weird quick about hanging Obama or Biden. WTF? Multiple times.
  • Cubans, Venezuelans, and Nicaraguans migrants —those guys LOVE Trump! They love 'The Apprentice' and think everything else is 'Socialista.' Anyway, they think they will be rich via Trump and love the idea of it. I might, too, if I was born in Cuba. Mostly males. You have to watch for massive dishonesty...a big no most times
  • Abortion. Floridians are not responsible enough for just 6 weeks. It is a messy state - and needs much longer periods of time for decision-making.


And Ron DeSantis. Let's unpack him:

In 2018, he barely won by around 32,000 votes against Democratic nominee Andrew Gillum. He likely always overestimated his appeal. DeSantis lost in every major metro area: Jacksonville, Tampa, St. Pete, Orlando, West Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale, and Miami.

1715566180690.png


And his political instincts are awful. Ready to get dirty after hurricane Ian - white-heeled boots? C'mon. There is just something 'off' about him - he is not a natural politician. Driven - yes! Weird things like this - it's not political, just not the right person.

1715869623520.png


When you let Florida be Florida and run by the zealots, this is what you get. Collier Country is home to Naples, FL, one of the wealthiest towns in the United States—and one would assume sophisticated. But I doubt anyone pays attention to what is happening at the school board level.

LIST OF BOOKS BANNED IN COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, INCLUDES: Link (Quite a few of these books were on my High School reading lists.)
  • 16 books by Stephen King, including Carrie, It, The Gunslinger, The Running Man, and The Long Walk
  • 14 books by Ellen Hopkins, including Crank and Tricks
  • 10 books by P.C. Cast and Kristin Cast, including Marked
  • 7 books by Anne Rice, including The Vampire Lestat
  • 7 books by John Updike, including Rabbit Angstrom: A Tetralogy: Rabbit, Run, Rabbit Redux, Rabbit Is Rich, and Rabbit at Rest
  • 4 books by Laurie Halse Anderson, including Speak
  • 4 books by Toni Morrison, including Beloved, Song of Solomon, Sula, and The Bluest Eye
  • 4 books by Amy Reed, including The Nowhere Girls
  • 4 books by Chris Crutcher, including Staying Fat for Sarah Byrnes
  • 3 books by Pat Conroy, including The Prince of Tides
  • 3 books by Edwidge Danticat, including Breath, Eyes, Memory
  • 3 books by Ernest Hemingway, including For Whom the Bell Tolls, In Our Time, and The Sun Also Rises
  • 3 books by Larry McMurtry, including Lonesome Dove
  • 3 books by James Patterson, including Along Came a Spider
  • 3 books by Jodi Picoult, including My Sister’s Keeper
  • 3 books by Coe Booth, including Tyrell
  • 3 books by Gayle Forman, including If I Stay
Well-known books turned into films and TV shows:
  • Dune Chronicles, by Frank Herbert
  • The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, by Stieg Larsson
  • A Game of Thrones, by George R.R. Martin
  • Shopgirl, by Steve Martin
  • How Stella Got Her Groove Back and Waiting to Exhale, by Terry McMillan
  • The Perks of Being a Wallflower, by Stephen Chbosky
  • Forrest Gump, by Winston Groom
  • Outlander, by Diana Gabaldon
  • A Time to Kill, by John Grisham
  • One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, by Ken Kesey
  • 2001: A Space Odyssey, by Arthur C. Clarke
  • Stardust, by Neil Gaiman
  • Girl with A Pearl Earring, by Tracy Chevalier
  • Simon vs. the Homo Sapiens Agenda, by Becky Albertalli
  • The Magicians Trilogy: The Magicians; The Magician King; The Magician’s Land, by Lev Grossman
  • Many Waters (A Wrinkle in Time Quintet #3), by Madeleine L’Engle
  • Whispers, by Dean Koontz
  • Atonement, by Ian McEwan
  • I Am Not Your Perfect Mexican Daughter, by Erika L. Sánchez
  • The Hate U Give, by Angie Thomas
Literary classics:
  • The Handmaid’s Tale, by Margaret Atwood
  • The Man in the Iron Mask, by Alexandre Dumas
  • Shōgun, by James Clavell
  • Ceremony, by Leslie Marmon Silko
  • Invisible Man, by Ralph Ellison
  • Catch-22, by Joseph Heller
  • Brave New World, by Aldous Huxley
  • On the Road, by Jack Kerouac
  • Flowers for Algernon, by Daniel Keyes
  • Their Eyes Were Watching God, by Zora Neale Hurston
  • The Executioner’s Song, by Norman Mailer
  • A Good Man is Hard to Find And Other Stories, by Flannery O’Connor
  • Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead, by Ayn Rand
  • Slaughterhouse-Five, by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
  • Anna Karenina, by Leo Tolstoy
  • The Color Purple and The Temple of My Familiar, by Alice Walker
  • The Once and Future King, by T.H. White
Young adult books:
  • Clap When You Land and The Poet X, by Elizabeth Acevedo
  • The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian, by Sherman Alexie
  • The Rose and the Beast: Fairy Tales Retold, by Francesca Lia Block
  • A Phoenix First Must Burn: Sixteen Stories of Black Girl Magic, Resistance, and Hope, edited by Patrice Caldwell
  • The Belles, by Dhonielle Clayton
  • Alex & Eliza: A Love Story, by Melissa de la Cruz
  • Life Is Funny, by E. R. Frank
  • Grown and Monday’s Not Coming, by Tiffany D. Jackson
  • We Were Liars, by E. Lockhart
  • The Firekeeper’s Daughter, by Angeline Boulley
  • Beautiful Creatures, Beautiful Chaos, Beautiful Darkness and Beautiful Redemption, by Kami Garcia and Margaret Stohl
  • History is All You Left Me, by Adam Silvera
  • Graceling, by Kristin Cashore
  • Mexican Whiteboy, by Matt de la Peña
  • Girl Made of Stars, by Ashley Herring Blake
  • What Girls are Made Of, by Elana K. Arnold
  • Heroine and Not a Drop to Drink, by Mindy McGinnis
  • This One Summer, by Mariko and Jillian Tamaki
  • American Street by Ibi Zoboi
 
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Thanks, Chris! You've now convinced me to NEVER move to Florida (either permanently or for the winter months); I have visited for short periods of time and it can be nice, in certain areas, to spend a week or two in the Winter or early Spring to get out of the Northeast cold.
 
The interwebz says Australia is the driest inhabited continent in the world with approximately 70% considered to be semi-arid, arid, or desert. This is what I always envision that most of it looks like (with a helpful soundtrack!).

View attachment 41265
The little blue/green blotch in eastern central Queensland (surrounded by yellow) is Carnarvon Gorge and the Arcadia Valley. It's recognized as the best cattle area on our continent. Beasts regularly gain 7kg (15 pound) a week in growing season. It's also a spectacular place to visit for hiking.
 
  • Florida is scary politically. There are a lot of aggrieved Trump voters whose worldview is anti-Black, Gay, Trans, Tax, Disney. I doubt they like Trump; they are just angry. I try not to trigger when engaged. Florida north I-4 (Tampa-Orlando-Daytona) becomes Alabama/Mississippi - avoid besides beaches. I cannot tell you how many neighbors are trying to 'recruit' me based on my height, looks, maleness, etc - but they get weird quick about hanging Obama or Biden. WTF? Multiple times.
  • Cubans, Venezuelans, and Nicaraguans—those guys LOVE Trump! They love 'The Apprentice' and think everything else is 'Socialista.' Anyway, they think they will be rich via Trump and love the idea of it. I might, too, if I was born in Cuba. Mostly males. You have to watch for massive dishonesty...
  • Abortion. Floridians are not responsible enough for just 6 weeks. It is a messy state - and needs much longer periods of time for decision-making.
Lol. You've got the deep south and we've got the deep north. We have the same RWNJ people and pollies at the top of our country. In fact I last night saw an advert for Tucker Carlson's Freedom Conference tour that is coming up here soon. He's being supported by our kinda version of DT in Clive Palmer. Clive's an obese mining billionaire that thinks everyone else should be white, male and straight and if they're not a billionaire it's their problem.
 
I (we) did a Florida residency (50%+1 time) for a year during COVID-19 because California did not open anything (2020-2022). Year 2 was a slog for a 9% tax bonus.
Perhaps our paths crossed, though I suspect you were not in Florida June 8 - August 28, 2020 when Liz and I were living with her mother in Belleaire Bluffs just south of Clearwater by the Gulf. My other visits were first week of February 2020, 2 weeks around Thanksgiving 2020, late April/early May 2021 and the last week of June 2021.
Florida does have beautiful, accessible beaches. However, the Panhandle/Gulf Coast likely has the best ones.
I disagree. I was able to bodysurf at Playalinda, Cocoa Beach and Singer Island on the Atlantic side. The Gulf at Clearwater/Belleaire is like a lake, rideable one foot waves maybe 3x in the 3 months there. Interestingly there were waves at Orange Beach, AL on 4th of July 2021; maybe I got lucky there.
Scuba Diving is decent/pretty good. The reefs are trashed but still have decent sea life.
Yes and those reefs like the one we dived off Palm Beach are on the Atlantic side; none of that on the Gulf side AFAIK. The Gulf Stream has a moderating effect on the Atlantic side: water temps are warmer in winter and not quite as hot in summer.

Now for the politics. :smileyvault-stirthepot:

I did not find Pinellas County (very high senior population) in summer 2020 to be much different from SoCal in the spring. Newsom and DeSantis both did a lot of posturing in 2020 but both of them usually deferred to the counties in their states. After all I was skiing Mt. Baldy in San Bernardino County in April 2020 when Liz had to sneak past police tape to swim in the Gulf. Newsom shut down Orange County's beaches during that April heat wave but let them reopen 4 days later under the same rules as Ventura/San Diego (no sitting on the beach but you could walk, run, swim or surf).

Restaurants in L.A. County were limited to takeout while Pinellas allowed 25% dine-in, but that is usually uneconomic so most places were takeout only. Pinellas but not L.A. had one way aisles in grocery stores.

DeSantis made two key decisions that were among the best during COVID. He shut down visitation to Florida nursing homes on March 2, this while New York was discharging sick patients from hospitals into nursing homes. Florida to this day has had a lower proportion of COVID deaths in nursing homes than most states, impressive considering the obvious higher nursing home population. De Santis also made the schools reopen in-classroom in September 2020. In retrospect this was a big plus for educational development in the youth population with very low COVID risk.

In winter 2021 DeSantis had the COVID vaccine distributed via Publix grocery stores, which are so ubiquitous in Florida that I occasionally see them across the street from each other. That spring is when he started pandering to the anti-vax crowd, figuring IMHO that nearly all of Florida's seniors were vaxxed so there was little downside risk. As of 3/31/2021 Florida's cumulative COVID death rate was 1554 per million, probably better than the 1488 in California considering Florida's high age demographic. Unfortunately the Delta variant upset that situation and killed 1311 per million in Florida vs. 403 in California over the next 6 months. Going forward from then the Trumpy population is less likely to be vaxxed so the cumulative death rates as of 9/30/2023 were 4225 per million in Florida (similar to Croatia or Slovakia) vs. 2656 in California (similar to Spain or France).

Now, Florida is the nation's escape valve.
For decades that was SoCal. I've read a few articles commenting that westward migration in the US was mostly within similar latitudes. SoCal was the one growing place that got lots of 20th century immigration from both north and south. In the 21st century that's Florida getting immigration from all over the US.

In 2018, he barely won by around 32,000 votes against Democratic nominee Andrew Gillum.
Yes but DeSantis won by 1.5 million votes in 2022 vs. Charlie Crist, so I'll say most Floridians liked the way DeSantis handled COVID.

A big part of that 21st century immigration is boomer retirees. I'll speculate that the slice of that demographic that decamps to Florida skews more right wing than seniors overall and is the major driver of Florida not being the almost exact swing state that it was in 2000.
Cubans, Venezuelans, and Nicaraguans—those guys LOVE Trump! They love 'The Apprentice' and think everything else is 'Socialista.'
Logical considering the way their home countries are governed, so another reason Florida is redder than in 2000.
And his political instincts are awful. Ready to get dirty after hurricane Ian - white boots? C'mon. There is just something 'off' about him - he is not a natural politician. Driven - yes!
Yes indeed. After Trump lost in 2020 DeSantis got presidential fever and decided to pander to the worst instincts of Trump's base. But if you actually like Trump, you're going to vote for the real thing instead of DeSantis' ersatz imitation.

But I doubt anyone pays attention to what is happening at the school board level.
I agree here too. Florida has this eccentric libertarian streak, think the "Florida Man" meme. That seems inconsistent with the censorship drive. True conservatives don't like a nanny state.
 
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DeSantis seems to just address social issues. He’s very good at avoiding the real problems. Run away insurance cost and taxes.
 
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