At the Canyons next week: a few questions

[OHski]

Hello... You guys have been a great help in past years, so we're on our way to Utah for a third year. I'll be staying near the Canyons with my 15 year old and some friends next week. Prior years we've stayed in SLC, so I have a few questions about the Park City area.

Food - Earlier this year at Whistler I found a supermarket the locals used and saved a few bucks. Anything similar in Park City?

Eating out - Good food-good value places? (will have teenagers in tow) Good value doesn't mean cheap.. I just hate getting gouged for mediocre food. Places to avoid?

Discount Tickets - Are they available anywhere in PC? I've used Canyon sports when staying in SLC.

Bootfitter - I'm trying to sort out a few things. Any recommendations for a good bootfitter in the PC area? If not there, elsewhere SLC? All I have right now are shops mentioned at sites like bootfitters.com.

Highways - We'll probably take a day and go to Powmow or Snowbasin. It looks like there are two routes from the Canyons: take 84 north through the mountains, or go back into the city and take head nroth from there. The city route is about ten miles further. I've never taken 84 through the mountains. Is there any reason I would want to take the city route instead?

Spring Conditions - I've not skiied Utah in March so I'm wondering about spring conditions in general and how that might influence where we ski. Your thoughts?

Powder Mountain - We like it. I've not tried the Cat skiing there and junior is itching to go. Comments?

Alta - In past years we've always had a boarder with us, so Alta was never an option. The boarder's in college this year so it's just me and junior (skier) so we're going. We're both comfortable on blues and blacks and enjoy gladed runs. We prefer to be adventurous vs. sticking to the groomers, although a tight groomed trail is fun. Any suggestions about Alta at this time of year?

Deer Valley - All groomers all the time?? Like Alta, I've never been there because of the boarder son.

Thanks much

 

[Admin]

Food - Earlier this year at Whistler I found a supermarket the locals used and saved a few bucks. Anything similar in Park City?

Supermarkets in the PC area are priced similarly to others in the area. In town there's a Dan's at the intersection of 224 and Kearns Av (near the State Liquor Store). In Kimball Jct there's a Smith's (aka Kroger to those from other parts of the country), and there's an Albertson's in Jeremy Ranch.

Eating out - Good food-good value places? (will have teenagers in tow) Good value doesn't mean cheap.. I just hate getting gouged for mediocre food.

Lots of good restaurants in PC (see Marc_C's recommendations in the thread at http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards ... php?t=6125 ). Many quite pricey, too. Zona Rosa on Main St. is decent Tex Mex for a reasonable price.

Discount Tickets - Are they available anywhere in PC? I've used Canyon sports when staying in SLC.

No. Only in SLC. For driving from the airport to PC the REI at ~2900 E 3300 S is convenient (near the interchange of I-80 and the E side I-215 belt route).

Bootfitter - I'm trying to sort out a few things. Any recommendations for a good bootfitter in the PC area? If not there, elsewhere SLC? All I have right now are shops mentioned at sites like bootfitters.com.

Can't help.

Highways - We'll probably take a day and go to Powmow or Snowbasin. It looks like there are two routes from the Canyons: take 84 north through the mountains, or go back into the city and take head nroth from there. The city route is about ten miles further. I've never taken 84 through the mountains. Is there any reason I would want to take the city route instead?

No.

Spring Conditions - I've not skiied Utah in March so I'm wondering about spring conditions in general and how that might influence where we ski. Your thoughts?

Anything's possible. It was in the 60s today in SLC, it's snowing in the mountains tonight. That said, the PC-area ski resorts and the Ogden-area resorts are more likely to be springlike than the Cottonwoods, especially near the bases as they're a couple of thousand feet lower in elevation.

Powder Mountain - We like it. I've not tried the Cat skiing there and junior is itching to go. Comments?

Don't go if it's been warm and sunny during the day and freezing at night, unless things are corning up. If snow is fresh, have fun!

Alta - In past years we've always had a boarder with us, so Alta was never an option. The boarder's in college this year so it's just me and junior (skier) so we're going. We're both comfortable on blues and blacks and enjoy gladed runs. We prefer to be adventurous vs. sticking to the groomers, although a tight groomed trail is fun. Any suggestions about Alta at this time of year?

By all means, go. This is a wonderful time of year to ski Alta, and bases are deep.

Deer Valley - All groomers all the time?? Like Alta, I've never been there because of the boarder son.

Primarily. There are more challenging ungroomed routes off Empire and Mayflower, and the trees are divinely untouched after a storm.

Thanks much

Yer welcome.

 

[Jcocktosten]

There is a Surefoot at PCMR - my Park City friends use that.

Lots of overpriced food - Snake River Grill in Heber was very good (we tried it for the first time this trip).

For lower priced food, I like Good Thymes and Loco Lizard in Kimble Junction

Have had good/great meals at Steins, Mariposa, Jean Phillipe (or whatever the name of the French place is in town)and Chez Betty.

Most places on Main have dissappointed.

 

[Tony Crocker]

For high-end dining we went to 350 Main in Park City with admin in February and were not disappointed.

There is a bootfitter in the plaza at Park City, who made the last attempt with Andrew's boots.

By late March the difference in snow conditions between the Cottonwoods and the Park City group/Snowbasin/PowMow tends to widen, due to altitude/exposure issues. I recommend staying in Park City only during the mid-January to mid-March core of the season. You might get lucky with a cooler or snowier year, but I'm in Utah in March every year and I see a lot of warm and sunny. If it's warm, those road trips should be to the Cottonwoods rather than Snowbasin/PowMow.

 

[Admin]

There is a bootfitter in the plaza at Park City, who made the last attempt with Andrew's boots.

That's the aforementioned Surefoot.

 

[Jcocktosten]

Agree on the late March issue although this year may be an exception due to snow volume etc. Last March 23-26 I was in the Park City area and it was very warm (with a freeze over at night) and by 1:00 it was basically unskiable for me and time to quit.

Big difference this year (a little more than a week earlier) but conditions were basically winter-like and not Spring. Much much more enjoyable for me.

 

[Tony Crocker]

That's the aforementioned Surefoot.

No, although there is also a Surefoot somewhere in Park City.

 

[Marc_C]

Big difference this year (a little more than a week earlier) but conditions were basically winter-like and not Spring.

That had nothing to do with the timing and everything to do with the storm cycle. It's going to be in the 50's in Park City on Monday.

 

[Tony Crocker]

It doesn't matter how much snow you have had if there are altitude/exposure problems in spring. One hot day will do it, as I have mentioned often with respect to Jackson Hole. Park City isn't that bad, but it's mediocre vs. both its Cottonwood competitors and most of Colorado from mid-March onwards.

 

[OHski]

Thanks for the helpful information. I'll seriously look at taking my hosts over to the cottownwoods instead of Ogden if it remains warm.

Since they have two boarders and and two adults who prefer groomers, I'm thinking Brighton will be a good mix of terrain for them.

Can I reach Brighton the back way from Park City via 224 and 190 at this time of year, or do I need to go back into Salt Lake?

Thanks again

 

[Admin]

Since they have two boarders and and two adults who prefer groomers, I'm thinking Brighton will be a good mix of terrain for them.

Personally I'd opt for Solitude over Brighton, but that's me.

Can I reach Brighton the back way from Park City via 224 and 190 at this time of year, or do I need to go back into Salt Lake?

Guardsman Pass will be closed until probably June this year, maybe even later. You have to go back into Salt Lake.

 

[johnnash]

Hi, OHski:

Like you, we're traveling without our boarder son, so we just skied Deer Valley for the first time on March 18. It was fun, but in IOHO overrated, in particular because we actually had to wait in lift lines -- never awful (10 minutes), but more than we expected. That said, it's certainly not bad, and your fear of "all groomers all the time" isn't accurate. We spent most of our time on the Empire and Lady Morgan lifts, and the blacks there were not groomed and were a lot of fun from the perspective of an advanced intermediate skier. We did Alta yesterday, and surface conditions there were still wintry forthe most part, although at the end of the day, starting to slush up at the base. Brighton today was powdery after a nice snowfall (3-6 inches last night), but the warm weather made things slushy at the end of the day on exposed slopes and at the base. It's worth noting that Brighton has a number of runs off the Great Western lift that have a pretty good exposure and also a lot of shade, since they run through evergreen glades (though the runs themselves are not really glade runs), so the snow perservation there should be good. Today, they were very nice. We like Brighton a lot for its varied terrain and laid-back atmosphere (eg, no problem brown-bagging lunch -- also true at Solitude). If you go there, be sure and ski off the new Millicent Express -- lots of good terrain for all levels, although if warm weather is an issue, the exposure isn't optimal for some of the black runs; the Milly bowl was starting to slush up a bit this afternoon. Tomorrow we hit Solitude. We really like this place for its -- well, for its solitude. In our experience -- only 2 times, but in very high (Christmas- New Year) season -- there's never a lift line. Unfortunately, there's only 1 hi-speed lift, so you do spend an lot of time riding the lifts. But still, a lot of fun.

As you can tell, we (my wife and I) like Brighton and Solitude about equally, but our boarder son prefers Brighton. They do have a very nice terrain park, and there are a lot of boarders there.

On restaurants near Park --in Heber City, the Spin Cafe is a moderately priced, but interesting choice. They got some kind of "best bargain" award recently. Their BBQ is superb, and for around $12, you can get a huge sandwich and the best broccoli side-dish I've ever had. (Can't guarantee they'll have the broccoli; this was the daily special yesterday.) Plenty of hamburger and sandwich choices also, or more elaborate dishes if you prefer. Small but reasonably priced wine list -- the Spanish garnacha (Fuego something) for around $20 is excellent.

Happy to answer any specific questions.

Have fun!

 

[Jcocktosten]

Fair enough, I defer to you guys who know a lot more on the subject.

 

[TeleProphet]

...Big difference this year (a little more than a week earlier) but conditions were basically winter-like and not Spring. Much much more enjoyable for me.

Indeed it has been a great winter at the PC areas. However, all the snow in the world can not stop the annual increase of direct sunlight on the slopes. PC resorts are flatter and lower at their bases and are starting to soften up. Higher up, about mid mountain and higher, the skiing is still winter-like. Best to make plans to visit Little Cottonwood resorts this time of year...much less direct light (steeper) and higher elevations make a huge difference. It is Spring after all and warm weather just happens. I always crack up at people that book vacations this late in the year and then lament about the soft snow...book earlier if you want winter (say maybe in winter?)

Oh and The Canyons is the worst of the PC resorts for slushy snow, with a more Easterly aspect than the other two. Always browns out at the base 1st of the three.

TeleP

 

[rfarren]

I skied snowbasin today and it was mediocre at best. The conditions were variable. At the top there was some powder to be hiked for, but once you got to mid mountain it was very grippy, heavy, cream cheesy stuff with scratch on the bottom. I'm with my father who loves the groomers, and to be honest they did a terrible job with that today. If they groomed someone ought to tell us where. I suppose it was a fluke but seriously... I felt bad for my father. The bottom third of the mountain was slushy to say the least. The skiing would have been better had there been good visibility, but the light was very flat. There are very little trees on the top third, and given the variabilty of the snow it was truly a matter of feeling it out.

I thought the snow would be in better shape given that they had a storm 48 hours ago, and I had thought it hadn't been that warm. I guess I was wrong. Hope alta tomorrow isn't more of the same.

 

[Marc_C]

It may have snowed 48 hrs ago (and not all that much - only about 5" in the Ogden Mtns.), but we've had two afternoons of bright sun and warm temps. What you experienced is what happens to groomers here before they corn up - dense, sticky wallpaper paste. Sometimes in the spring, new snow is not what you really want.

At this time of year, I put aside all plans to go anywhere else but the Cottonwood Canyons. The only thing that might change that is a significant dump of light and dry snow.

 

[Tony Crocker]

MarcC has it right. And Snowbird will be the best of the group if it hasn't snowed for a few days. The good news is that the incidence of major storms is still as high as mid-winter. And 18+ inches will be good powder at all of the Cottonwoods. At the other areas the sun will usually get at the powder fast, as rfarren observed.

 

[rfarren]

MarcC has it right. And Snowbird will be the best of the group if it hasn't snowed for a few days. The good news is that the incidence of major storms is still as high as mid-winter. And 18+ inches will be good powder at all of the Cottonwoods. At the other areas the sun will usually get at the powder fast, as rfarren observed.

Alta was really nice today... I even got some reasonable powder turns (East Castle). I understand why east castle is the last to get tracked out... mainly because it is the worst of all the traverses/hikes at alta. Snow was pretty good today, and I don't think that snowbird would have been any better. Indeed, last year in march, which was a bad year, snowbird was a wall of ice, while alta was forgiving. Sometimes, Snowbird's exposure works against itself.

 

[Marc_C]

Alta was really nice today... I even got some reasonable powder turns (East Castle). I understand why east castle is the last to get tracked out... mainly because it is the worst of all the traverses/hikes at alta.

So one of those folks up there that I saw today was you? Good for you. That's a heinous hike. I did it only once (while recovering from a bout of bronchitis no less - yeah, sometimes I'm an idiot) and swore I'd never do it again without AT gear and skins.

Indeed, last year in march, which was a bad year, snowbird was a wall of ice, while alta was forgiving. Sometimes, Snowbird's exposure works against itself.

In the spring, most of Snowbird sucks in the morning. While Mr. Crocker extols the virtue of the quantity of north aspects at the Bird (and there isn't as much as he thinks), it doesn't mean that they retain winter-like snow quality. It simply means they're unskiable until the day really warms up.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Yes the north exposures can work against you. This has been happening at Baldy for much of the last month, but rain was the culprit there.

This is Mammoth's virtue most of the time also. With normal range of weather the steep north facing stays winter snow to about mid-April. But if you get an extreme warm event that softens the snow much earlier, you'll be stuck with hardpack all day long if temps return to the normal range with no new snow.

In Utah the new snow events in spring are more frequent than here so the snow is less likely to settle out and produce corn. frarren's Snowbasin report was similar to some of the AltaBird reports we've seen here a month or two later in the season.

My extensive experience at both Mammoth and Snowbird has convinced me that most of the time those are the kind of areas that do best in spring. But well-attuned locals can usually figure out what the exceptions are. And when it comes to powder days, picking Alta to have the most new snow is a similarly reasonable assumption.