Attracting the non-skier

[rfarren]

IMHO the most expensive part of skiing is not the lift tix but the educational aspect, i.e. lessons.

Disagree. Transportation tends to dwarf everything else for most people if you are going to ski frequently. 500 miles in a car at 50 cents per mile, or airline tickets and airport->resort shuttle fees.

You certainly have a point when we're talking about destination resorts. However, average plane ticket plus car rental and gas for a given trip to Utah tends to be around $450 combined ($275-325 for plane tix- $100 for car rental- $25-$50 for gas), the cost of 1 private lesson at Alta for a half day is $275. The cost for a full day hovers somewhere above $500. Ski school, i.e. group lessons I believe are pretty affordable there ($45), but last a mere 2 hours.

For local skiing, every trip I do to the Katzkills I pay around $12 in tolls (depending on my route home). I almost always fill up my tank on route 4 or 17 in jersey on the way home, so that will run me about $30-35 depending on how much driving I did prior to the ski excursion. If we add insurance, depreciation, car cost (although the car was a free gift for our wedding), and maintenance, I suppose every drive to Hunter costs us around $65 in transportation. That is a 360 mile drive round trip. The lift tix are cheap with our Big Lift card, but still education cost an arm and a leg there with a private lesson costing $195 for three hours, and group lessons being quite a bit cheaper.

If I go to No'Vt or even So'Vt my transportation costs go quite a bit higher. A couple more tanks of gas etc... and I think Geoff is spot on. Frankly, with my little put put honda civic, I'm not looking forward to any trips that far north till spring, when it will be slightly warmer, and the driving will be a bit better.

 

[Geoff]

I think the IRS number of 50 cents per mile is pretty close to the real cost of operating a car. A Civic will be somewhat less but I think your $65 for 360 miles of driving is really low.

 

[rfarren]

I think the IRS number of 50 cents per mile is pretty close to the real cost of operating a car. A Civic will be somewhat less but I think your $65 for 360 miles of driving is really low.

It's possible that I underestimated the cost of depreciation, maintenance, insurance. But the actual cost in terms of gas and tolls is what I said, about $45-50 max.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

I know that this is getting off-topic, but rfarren's plight reminds me of ski commuting from Park Slope, Brooklyn over the course of four seasons.

As sub-optimum as many would find my present location to be -- 30 minutes directly west of Manhattan, usually 1:45 door-to-door to the three main Catskills ski areas -- doing it from Brooklyn (or god help you, Long Island) is not for the weak-willed, especially on the return leg. After fighting through approach traffic in NJ, you've got a host of Sophie's Choices to deal with. None of them are remotely appetizing and all dependent on the whims of the 1010 WINS traffic report:
a) Tappan Zee to the Saw Mill to the BQE or FDR
b) GWB to the FDR to the Brooklyn Bridge
c) GWB to the Triborough to the BQE (add an additional bridge toll for that one)
d) Lincoln Tunnel to the West Side to the Brooklyn Bridge (or take the Battery Tunnel and add another toll)
e) Holland Tunnel to the West Side to the Brooklyn Bridge (or take the Battery Tunnel and add another toll)

Coming back from New England means the Merritt Parkway to the BQE -- slightly better, but still unpleasant.

And then, once you're in Brooklyn, you have to crawl your way to Park Slope, pull in front of your walk-up apartment, bring all your crap inside, and then, the final indignity, search for a parking space: might take a couple minutes, but more likely a half hour. And then, due to alternate-side parking, you may have to move your car again the next morning.

In short: a total goatf*ck.
:x

 

[rfarren]

I know that this is getting off-topic, but rfarren's plight reminds me of ski commuting from Park Slope, Brooklyn over the course of four seasons.

As sub-optimum as many would find my present location to be -- 30 minutes directly west of Manhattan, usually 1:45 door-to-door to the three main Catskills ski areas -- doing it from Brooklyn (or god help you, Long Island) is not for the weak-willed, especially on the return leg. After fighting through approach traffic in NJ, you've got a host of Sophie's Choices to deal with. None of them are remotely appetizing and all dependent on the whims of the 1010 WINS traffic report:
a) Tappan Zee to the Saw Mill to the BQE or FDR
b) GWB to the FDR to the Brooklyn Bridge
c) GWB to the Triborough to the BQE (add an additional bridge toll for that one)
d) Lincoln Tunnel to the West Side to the Brooklyn Bridge (or take the Battery Tunnel and add another toll)
e) Holland Tunnel to the West Side to the Brooklyn Bridge (or take the Battery Tunnel and add another toll)

Coming back from New England means the Merritt Parkway to the BQE -- slightly better, but still unpleasant.

And then, once you're in Brooklyn, you have to crawl your way to Park Slope, pull in front of your walk-up apartment, bring all your crap inside, and then, the final indignity, search for a parking space: might take a couple minutes, but more likely a half hour. And then, due to alternate-side parking, you may have to move your car again the next morning.

In short: a total goatf*ck.
:x

Actually it's not so bad... I live right off the hamilton avenue exit on the BQE so there's rarely any city driving involved. I normally take the BBTunnel on the way out and then the GW, even if I'm going to New England. I think 87 is faster than 91. On the way back I prefer the thruway and the gw but it can get pricey. Sometimes I'll head over to the Taconic to the sawmill and the the fdr to Brooklyn Bridge to avoid the tolls. It just depends on how I'm feeling. I don't mind the drive, but I wouldn't do it more than once a weekend.

 

[Marc_C]

For local skiing, every trip I do to the Katzkills I pay around $12 in tolls (depending on my route home). I almost always fill up my tank on route 4 or 17 in jersey on the way home, so that will run me about $30-35 depending on how much driving I did prior to the ski excursion. If we add insurance, depreciation, car cost (although the car was a free gift for our wedding), and maintenance, I suppose every drive to Hunter costs us around $65 in transportation. That is a 360 mile drive round trip.

Nope. It's best to use the IRS figure of $0.50/mile, which takes all that into account. Your Hunter trips actually cost about $180.

 

[rfarren]

Nope. It's best to use the IRS figure of $0.50/mile, which takes all that into account. Your Hunter trips actually cost about $180.

Of course the IRS quote is based on someone who bought their car, and is making payments. Again, our car was gift, so the depreciation doesn't effect us. We aren't worried about resale value whatsoever. Our insurance is very low at $100 a month (liability only), and the gas price is based in Jersey, which I believe is below the national average. However, I think tolls equal out the cost of gas and then some. Nonetheless, if we use the IRS quote it's actually $129 per trip as the actual mileage is 258 round trip.

 

[Marc_C]

Nonetheless, if we use the IRS quote it's actually $129 per trip as the actual mileage is 258 round trip.

Hey! *You* were the one that said it was 360 miles r/t!

 

[Tony Crocker]

The 50 cents is for "total cost of insurance, depreciation, car cost ... and maintenance". But some of those costs, notably insurance are fixed. Depreciation is also part mileage and part just age even if the car isn't being driven at all . You can look up any car on kbb.com and tweak the mileage by say 10,000 to determine true marginal depreciation cost. Marginal depreciation cost might be 10-15 cents/mile for a new car but is practically nothing for an old car like my 1995 Maxima or perhaps rfarren's Civic. Maintenance is probably more on an older car though. So I see the marginal cost of driving an older car in the 30-35 cents/mile range. And the 15 cents or so of that for gas is often divided among multiple passengers.

Once you put even 2 people in a car, it's almost always cheaper to drive than fly. Not to mention the convenience of having your car instead of a rental when you're in the snow.