Baldy Dec 30th TR: Madness

[jojo_obrien]

http://picasaweb.google.com/jobrien9075 ... directlink

Ditto to aukai's TR posted as an addendum/comment to Tony's 28th report.

What a joke. Got to the parking lot at 730. 10 minutes to get ticket, 20-25 min to load chair #1.

Took Chairlift #4 which had just opened. Skiied underneath the lift: soft stuff underneath a 1 inch crust. Heard that the day before it turned from snow to rain at 11:30 AM (Wed). Made skiing borderline impossible/painful.

Took a few runs on the groomers (mostly hard pack, slightly carvable) then headed over to the sh(tshow called Thunder Mountain. 20 minute ride. Hit up a few of the groomers which were decent (no means as good as Sat/Sunday this last weekend). Everything was destroyed from the rains. My buddy Sean hit up South Bowl and confirmed it was destroyed.

Chair #3 started having problems until Nick came and did his thing....(11:30 AM).

Line for Chair #2 back to the lodge: 20 minutes. Longest line I have probably ever seen at Baldy.

Chair #4 looked like it was app 20-25 minute wait. No thanks. Went to the bar: not a single place to sit.

Packed the skiis and headed down. Saw the owner and nearly gave him a piece of my mind (I'm not a proponent whatsoever of the $100 virtual pass.......the guy is laughing all the way to the bank.......) Perhaps it was just this way because of the holiday? January/February will determine that.....

The road down was something special: I have never seen that many snowplayers in the first 3 miles south of the parking lot. EVER. Cars parked down to the lowest level. How often does this happen??

Went to icehouse canyon and did a 3 hour hike to get a workout in........

Welcome to Baldy.......

 

[Tony Crocker]

I have never seen that many snowplayers in the first 3 miles south of the parking lot.

But there was no snow below the parking lot Tuesday! And if it rained some in the ski area yesterday how could there be much now? What were the snowplayers doing, playing in the gravel? They should have kept that "road closed except to local residents sign" up as a deterrent.

Welcome to Baldy.......

Very true. I've been skiing there since 1976 and I still get surprised one way or the other more often than not. I'll admit that if not for unrelated issues like my car situation I might have been up there today too. IMHO jojo is batting .500 so far this season, as last Saturday was way better than anyone could have expected.

Saw the owner and nearly gave him a piece of my mind

Not sure what that would be about. Maybe the snow report online not mentioning rain or crust? They have no control over the traffic situation. I've been pushing the ticket line issue, but in this instance chair 1 was a more limiting factor and they can't do much about that until they get enough $ to replace it.

With regard to the promotions there is now some realization of a downside:

The ticket office is a big problem caused in part by a lot of promotions that sometimes are confusing and complicated compounded by slow computers. We are throwing more people at it and eliminating many new promotions. I would like it to be more simple for all.

I'm cutting Baldy a lot of slack these days partly because I have been skiing there since 1976. There have been more improvements in how the place is run in the past 2 seasons than the 30+ before then. Not to say that more aren't needed. In terms of what can be done without spending a lot of $ they may not have, snow reporting and the ticket line should be the top priorities IMHO.

However my own decisions when to ski there will continue to be based on fairly high standards of what I expect. I will tend to avoid the combination of chair 1 not skiable and a likely busy day. Despite being retired I expect my annual Baldy day count to go up only moderately.

 

[jojo_obrien]

Tony good morning.

I wasn't mad at the folks at Baldy for not mentioned that it had rained......

But what I am saying is......I have skiied Baldy for quite a while -- 17 years and the last 5-7 have gotten progressively worse in terms of crowds .....and there have been no infrastructure improvements whatsoever.

The fact that the owner sells these virtual passes for $100 per piece (offer valid for months on end) allowed a LOT of people to buy the passes. At $100 they are essentially the price of a one day ticket to Mammoth. Although I struggle with the concept of a $100 lift ticket, there is an appropriate price point for a lift ticket. The new owner at Baldy sells these $100 tickets (seems like the computers are down and they aren't limiting to the so-called "500 person per day reservation limit") and makes very little improvements to anything on the hill (the bar was relocated 100 feet)....the $100 virtual pass essentially makes it "virtually" free to ski at Baldy (not to mention the ubiquitous $10 lift tickets) : the result: long lines at the ticket booth, long lift lines, overtaxed ski lifts, and everything gets tracked out quickly. This is opposite to what the locals/old skool skiiers loved about Baldy: less crowds, more rustic, more untracked. If I want the crowds and the nice dining options/bar/cute chicks walking around at lunch, I go to Big Bear. So they guy sells what......a few thousand virtual passes, pockets $20-30K and then what.....place is swamped with people skiing for essentially free and the experience is diminished for everyone.

I'd gladly go back to the days of $50 lift tickets........I'd pay the extra money to decrease demand / skiier volume on hill. Those lifts do NOT do well when they're cranking at 85+% capacity.....

Just my 2 cents !

 

[Tony Crocker]

There was madness anywhere in SoCal if you decided to ski on Dec. 30:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... 7812.story

Crowds at Baldy were worse in the 1970's and 1980's than they are now. Baldy lost considerable market share in the 1990's due to:
1) The improved snowmaking at Big Bear and Mt. High
2) The shift to snowboarding among the younger generation
3) The popularity of terrain parks due to both 1) and 2) above

I expressed a cynical view of the cheap Baldy promotions when they were offered last summer. I figured with the huge La Nina there was a ~50% chance of a complete bust season for Baldy, thus a good way to generate some revenue in a season like that. But in principle jojo_obrien is right in his ticket pricing comments. The situation he describes echoes the numerous comments we read here about Killington during the last ASC years, decaying facilities overrun on weekends with cheap season passholders.

Tom Treaccar's quote in my above post indicates that he also sees a problem with the promotions. We'll see what happens next season there.

With regard to crowd issues, I would hold my opinion until we see how typical January/February weekends work out. Christmas week is a unique animal which I usually avoid like the plague. I'm beginning to think I was very lucky on Tuesday. The other issue, which may well persist the entire season, is that chair 1 is not skiable. Chair 1 is usually the crowd escape for expert skiers on busy days plus you can ski until closing and not worry about a big lineup to download from the Notch.

 

[Twins]

jojo, it was empty Jan1st.I did not wait more than 30 seconds for a lift.Ticket line was 2 minutes.Chair 1 was 1 minute.Excelent snow,skied to the lot,no downloading
Hopefully they get some lower/colder storms to fill out last portion of the lot runs.We downclimbed the last 50 feet,not bad :-D
Sounds like you hit a very busy day .Should be really fun when everyone is back in school/work.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Mt. Baldy is hard to predict, even for those of us who have been skiing there for decades. The last picture of the parking lot that Twins posted from Jan. 1 shows it less full than my day Tuesday. Obviously Thursday it was much busier. I've skied a few New Year's Days at SoCal local areas and they are much quieter than the previous week.

With regard to chair 1, yes if I was looking at a long line for downloading, I could find a route to ski most of the way down and walk the rest. But it's still a long way from being able to ski laps on chair 1 during the day to avoid crowds at the other lifts.

 

[egieszl]

jojo_obrien, thank you! I think your trip report does a good job of summing up my feelings about Mt. Baldy - the place sucks! Those of you who like it can have it and if it were to disappear I wouldn't shed a tear.

Management, conditions (more often than not), road, parking, lodge, lifts, snowmaking - yep they all suck. Mt. Baldy is the ghetto of southern california ski hills. It's no wonder that they give away passes.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I guess egieszl didn't bother to read the reports from 12/25, 12/26, 12/28, 1/1 or 1/3. Out of the 6 days FTO skiers hit Baldy since Christmas, 3 were excellent, 2 good and 1 sucked. Some people must prefer the consistent mediocrity (from an advanced skier/rider perspective) of Big Bear and Mt. High. And of course those places didn't have any overcrowding issues on 12/30 either. :stir:

 

[SoCal Rider]

Man, I forgot about that whole thread from May, so I wasn't 100 percent sure if egieszl was being 100 percent sincere (although I was leaning that way).

I haven't posted a TR, but mark me down for having a really good time Jan. 3. Picked up my season pass in just a few minutes (had to snap a photo), and I didn't even get to bypass a long line. That had to be the shortest powder/near-powder day line I've seen in my now fourth season of going there. (I realize it was a Tuesday after a holiday period.)

All the local places equally suck for traffic during the holiday period. I refuse to go. Maybe Snow Valley is tolerable when you consider skier density vs. the other places.

 

[jojo_obrien]

Baldy is nothing short of a double edged sword.....there is a fine line between love and hate, right?

Had an interesting conversation with someone in the Ellingson Family who was riding up on the lift on Monday.

Tony maybe you know more than I but the Ellingsons have partial ownership in Mt Baldy.

I bitched about the $100 virtual pass and he told me they had to do something drastic to get the word out about Baldy, and that if they didn't do that, there was a chance that nobody would be skiing this year.....(don't know if it was complete b.s. or there was some truth in his words).

But here's what he told me, and again, not sure if it's b.s. but if it is, I'm a little scared: he said they made half a million (500K) on those virtual passes. That means they sold ~50,000 virtual passes, far more than I expected. It's a bit surprising, but, given the fact that the promo was available for months and months on end, I can believe it.

I don't have a foggiest idea as to what it costs to run a place like baldy (who owns the land? maintenance costs for lifts -- how much is that?, property taxes?, etc.) but, as I said previously, the owners have an extra $500K cash flow as a result of the virtual pass promo. Like I said, I don't know their P&L statements, but $500K sure seems like a lot of money fora 4 chairlift ski hill.

Just some food for thought....

 

[Tony Crocker]

Considering Mt. Baldy was looking at a ~50% chance of a total wipeout season with the big La Nina, I can't criticize them much for getting 500K in the door before the season starts. FYI that would be 5,000 passes for $100 each, if that makes you breathe a little easier. During the record length 2004-05 season, supposedly Mt. Baldy recorded only ~50,000 skier visits.

In the long run, this ticketing method is not the way to go. But they have a 30+ year reputation to live down with skiers like egieszl. It is worth something to get people up there to look at the changes that have been made in the past 2 seasons. However, they still need to solve the ticket line problem if they want those people to come back.

I do not know who the Elllingsons are.

 

[reefuss12]

the eglez said


Management, conditions (more often than not), road, parking, lodge, lifts, snowmaking - yep they all suck. Mt. Baldy is the ghetto of southern california ski hills


The skiing been freakin great though.
Tony
An efficient ticket office does no good on a crowded day with an inefficient chair 1.

 

[jojo_obrien]

Geez I meant to say 5,000 VP's......ha (an you believe my day job is a chemical engineer)......... :roll:

I would say the 30 minutes I was stranded on the lift last Monday really sucked. It seems like there is only one guy (Nick) who knows the mechanics of those lifts. Thank goodness for Nick -- he's a saving grace for Baldy. At least the lift breakdown wasn't as bad as the deal at Mountain High this past week........

I'm still thinking about how good the skiing was on Monday....... damn....... \/

Supposedly the Ellingsons are part owners and this Tom guy only has partial ownership.......

 

[Tony Crocker]

An efficient ticket office does no good on a crowded day with an inefficient chair 1.

It varies. On Dec. 28 the ticket line was down the hill into the parking lot but the chair 1 line was maybe 10 people. But people understand it costs $$$ to replace a chairlift. It just takes proactive management and a few $ to train a few more ticket takers.

 

[reefuss12]

Tony said
It varies. On Dec. 28 the ticket line was down the hill into the parking lot but the chair 1 line was maybe 10 people.


OK ill buy that.But Last winter on Dec. 28, there was 10 people in the ticket line but the line for chair 1 was down to the parking lot.Basically, Baldy has a lift system that can only handle so many people per minute. When that is exceeded, on crowded days, there are log jams on all the lifts. Since I have a pass I like to walk past all the ticket people and usually early enough so the line on chair 1 has only about 10 people. When Baldy gets to the point when all the lifts are quads and the backside is open I am sure I will be dead by then so I really enjoy Baldy for what it has to offer in the present and that is fantastic skiing if you know when to get it.

 

[egieszl]

Baldy's aging (and failing) lift system and antiquated infrastructure make me go elsewhere - even if the skiing may not be as good.

The single, biggest problem I see with Mt. Baldy is the fact that over the past 30+ years the owners have hardly reinvested in the mountain. Sure they've spent some money on a mediocre snowmaking system, but that's not going to do any good when the lifts (especially Chair 1) fall into disrepair. They got a brand-new lodge (80s) after the fire, but does a nearly 30-year old lodge even count anymore?

I used to buy those Mt. Baldy lift ticket coupon sheets and I even had a pass of some sort where I had to make a phone reservation 24 hours in advance. I used to patronize the mountain, but after multiple visits - Mt. Baldy is simply an "Epic Fail" and I'm not going back. From my perspective, the mountain will close (it's a certainty) unless some major reinvestment starts to happen.

I'm also sick of the BS snow reports coming from the mountain. I wish this site existed (or I was aware of it) 10-15 years ago, because there are some honest reports here with photos, but unfortunately they've burned me too many times in the past with misinformation.

Mt. Baldy could borrow a chapter from Mountain High's history. Aggressive, creative marketing with an upfront, honest approach beginning in the late 90s improved that resort's business and in turn they were able to make some minor improvement's mainly paint and retiring a bunch of cafeteria microwaves to make the place a lot better. The same lousy facilities and old, but maintained lifts are still there, but they look a hell of a lot better now than they did in the early-to-mid 90s.

 

[SoCal Rider]

I used to buy those Mt. Baldy lift ticket coupon sheets and I even had a pass of some sort where I had to make a phone reservation 24 hours in advance. I used to patronize the mountain, but after multiple visits - Mt. Baldy is simply an "Epic Fail" and I'm not going back. From my perspective, the mountain will close (it's a certainty) unless some major reinvestment starts to happen.

You gave a different impression in that other thread.

Re: Mt. Baldy, May 1, 2010
by egieszl » Wed May 12, 2010 1:40 am

I want to also add something else to this thread. I've lived 40 minutes from Mt. Baldy for the past 5 years and I haven't gone once. The reason why is simple.

Oh, and there's nothing wrong with the bleeping lodge*.


* from a non-building inspector POV.

 

[reefuss12]

Antique yes. But structurally speaking the lift towers are very sound. Some say better than the tube towers.
I agree, chair 1 needs to be updated, as with the rest, so people,c'mon,stop buying those cheesy 100 dollar passes and buy a no restriction pass for 250-350.00 in the summer and give the area some revenue,thats a deal. I mean if anyone skiis a season for a 100 bucks, they shouldn't bitch about the crappy lifts, long ticket lines or anything else. I am not sure but last winter I never heard any bitching or moaning in the parking lot, on the slopes, in the lodge and that disturbed me.The snow last winter was really good. So I am happy to see things back on track.




http://www.safetyauthority.com/news/saf ... ce-jacking

 

[capnmunnerlyn]

I don't understand the negativity surrounding Mt Baldy. Truly, I don't. To me, the Mt Baldy experience is like anything else in lift -- expectations and then emotion experienced on perceived results. What exactly does a non-Mt Baldy fan expect? Mountain High or Big Bear convenience? Mammoth scale and polish? If so, I can certainly understand the negative feelings. It's like dating a girl and unrealistically expecting her to possess every superlative qualities YOU personally value in one easy to dissolve package, not taking into account every bundle has is positives/negatives/quirks. I'm in for life on the Mammoth MVP (it's a priority every year, like brakes and good tires) and I used to have a Mountain High pass in years past (the kid was on the $129 deal, I was in an eager park phase and we'd make night runs after school all the time). All 3 places are different but I find they deliver on their missions quite well. Us SoCal residents are LUCKY to have such options, don't you think?!

If the snow blessings come and I can't (or don't want to) make the 5 hour drive to Mammoth for whatever life reasons (family events, kid's sports extravaganzas, uhm, work), I can't see how someone can't enjoy a nice early chair on the best local steeps around. There are tons of steep chutes, tree runs and bowls to keep you occupied. There are really only 3 chair lifts you have to juggle to chase the sun so it's pretty darn easy to manage the snow. I'm a full Mammoth freak but I tell you, I love this Baldy place. Only 1.5hrs away from Thousand Oaks (85mi) and you can hit some fun steeps? And it's not crowded? And it's not a rip on $? And the drive is mainly freeway? And the place has it's own "we haven't sold out/look at our *awesome* developed village and overpriced uber-cool 'apres ski' spot" honest to goodness old school ski resort feel? Come on, folks. What's not to love...seriously. You can find sweet runs everywhere. Take a run from 3 to the parking lot and don't tell me you're not gassed and grinning from the kooky fun.

The way I see it, I don't care how the lifts look as long as they're maintained and safe. I haven't heard of a Baldy lift failing yet so I've got the faith. And yes, I've got core shots and repaired bases from the early (careless) days while I got to know Baldy. I'm just that much better of a rock spotter now -- something that has helped at EVERY mountain I've been on (yup, they all have rocks you might have to avoid at one time or another). I just love the concept of steep/trees/chutes/bowls this close to home. Not as an end all/be all, but as a fun fix when the crack of Mammoth isn't feasible. The teenager and I agree -- the only people who wouldn't enjoy Baldy are the intermediates that prefer to stay on blue trail/groom for their uber ski experience. If that's the case, then yes, Baldy will not deliver for you...happy trails and just leave the extra parking to us :-D

 

[Tony Crocker]

I agree with nearly all of the above.

The single, biggest problem I see with Mt. Baldy is the fact that over the past 30+ years the owners have hardly reinvested in the mountain

Well, if you have been reading here you know that at long last some money was invested in the mountain a year ago. The grooming is conspicuously improved. The snowmaking is not going to help the skiing most of us want to do there, but the recent upgrade is going to give them a base on the main runs and maintain the high traffic areas.

I'm after them on the snow reporting. This year they are enumerating the groomed runs. I want them to enumerate the open/closed runs. The verbiage about "packed powder", etc. Mt. High isn't much better. If you live in SoCal and pay attention you can figure that one out.