Bejing Winter Games Aesthetics

[ChrisC]

I am obsessed with the apoplectic urban scene (complete with nuclear reactors ) at the Beijing's Big Air Shougang Olympic venue.

The images from these Winter Games are among the worst - brown sloped/WRODs, fake icy hard pipes and machine-made cross country tracks.

But the last 3 Winter Games have been disappointing/horrible - Palm trees in Sochi, rampant snowmelt too in Sochi, and more WRODs in South Korea.

Only the skaters get anything nice.

Will be nice when Milan/Cortina hosts.

Is that a nuclear plant? The story behind those towers at the Winter Olympics big air | CNN

The old steel mill next to the big air jump moved its operations more than 15 years ago -- before the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing.

www.cnn.com

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Lovely:

 

[EMSC]

Long story, haven't seen a single second of these games as yet. So many controversies all over (at least in the news/sports feeds), it seems like long before they are over they will already be considered about as good as the 1936 games. I know through personal channels (albeit 3rd hand) from one of our men's competitors that the "snow" for the alpine events is shockingly horrid. Thus why 25% of each race ends up as DNFs among other abnormal issues with those races.

 

[berkshireskier]

I'm somewhat embarrassed to admit that I've watched quite a bit of the Olympics (and not really proud of that fact, given the games are being held in what I consider to be a repressive and horrible communist country - I'm not sure why the International Olympic Committee would ever agree to hold the games in such a country, other than the fact that China seems to have tens of billions of dollars (or their currency equivalent) to spend on building out all of the necessary venues for a modern Winter games?). IMHO, this is almost the equivalent of holding the 1936 Summer games in Nazi Germany. But there have been some "feel good" stories and athletic drama coming out of the games - Ryan Cochran-Siegle getting the silver medal in the Super G; Lindsay Jacobellis winning the women's snowboard cross at the age of 36; Nathan Chen winning the men's figure skating gold, etc., although the USA is behind where they have been in the past in the medal count.

According to interviews with some of the ski racers, the "snow" is apparently not that bad but you do have to wonder if the number of crashes and DNF's (especially Mikaela Shiffren who almost NEVER falls or skies out of race) might be partially related, at least, to the 100% man-made "snow" that they're skiing on. As we all know, man-made snow are basically ice pellets with a different crystalline structure than "real snow". You have to believe that the base and structure of the snow conditions on the race trails are different than what the racers are used to? Also, if you view some of the aerial shots of the race courses (for the DH and Super G, etc), it looks to me like they created these trails down the spines of otherwise steeply-pointed mountains. They must have moved a tremendous amount of earth to create the "trails" down the spines of these mountains on which they're skiing. I guess it is a testament to the amount of money and work the Chinese were willing to do to hold these games.

I do find it somewhat jarring to watch some of the ski venues (like the freestyle ski and snowboarding jumping) that were built in the middle of otherwise industrial Beijing - like those nuclear power plant "smokestacks". Ugh.

 

[flyover]

I haven't watched any of the games.

If those cooling towers were operational they would have the potential to produce some much-needed downwind snow under the right atmospheric conditions.

Lovely:

I dunno, kinda taps into a skiing-equivalent-of-parkour-kinda vibe. (Anybody remember parkour?)

Reminds me of this old clip:

Perhaps Trail, BC should throw its hat in the ring for some future Olympics.

 

[ChrisC]

Mid-season snow cover at Yanqing National Alpine Ski Centre. Who really is going to use this after the 2022 games? I guess China will institute a legitimate alpine team.

 

[jasoncapecod]

I read somewhere that skiing is growing in china , so i guess it will be used...
Boy is that one ugly ski area

 

[jamesdeluxe]

As leisure skiers, we look at that and think: unsightly with rock-hard snowmaking cover but isn't that what racers prefer? You can deduce that I've never raced if I have to ask that question.

 

[berkshireskier]

I read somewhere that skiing is growing in china , so i guess it will be used...
Boy is that one ugly ski area

Yea, very ugly. As I mentioned previously in this thread, it looks to me that they must have done a tremendous amount of "earth moving" to create those "trails" on the mountains. It does not look like "natural terrain" to me?

 

[berkshireskier]

As leisure skiers, we look at that and think: unsightly with rock-hard snowmaking cover but isn't that what racers prefer? You can deduce that I've never raced if I have to ask that question.

From what I have heard and read, some of the racers have complained about the snow conditions on the race courses and other racers seem to be OK with it. I believe, on many of the World Cup race courses, they "inject" water on to the courses to "firm them up" and many racers like skiing on those rock-hard, icy courses. Not sure if they did that on these courses but the announcers keep saying the the snow is "grippy" and some racers are having a hard time adjusting to it.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I believe, on many of the World Cup race courses, they "inject" water on to the courses to "firm them up" and many racers like skiing on those rock-hard, icy courses.

That is what I have read a few times. Perhaps someone with a race background like EMSC or Patrick could comment. I think a lot of World Cup races, particularly in the early season, are on close to 100% manmade snow. However, snowmaking is an art, and doing it competently varies by local climatology and can take years of practice with local expertise to optimize. I'd hazard a guess that the Chinese are only partway up that learning curve now.

We watched the snowboard halfpipe last night, and those guys were expanding the limits so the snow must have been within their comfort zone. But that's a more limited environment to control than a lengthy ski course on those exposed ridgelines.

I have general knowledge of much of the world's climatology from numerous eclipse bulletins I've read over the years, and I was in China for two eclipse trips in 2008 and 2009. So when Beijing was awarded the 2022 Winter Games I knew that Beijing averaged 22 inches of precipitation a year, with 15 of that in July/August. So it was no surprise when I read that the nearby mountains used for the games average 8 inches of annual snowfall.

Yes, China wants to develop a ski industry, but I believe it will be nearly all domestic. Manchuria gets a bit more snow but its temperatures make New England and Quebec seem balmy in comparison. My father once saw -56F when he lived there in the 1930's. Matt Appleford, who has run exotic trips to Gulmarg and Chillan, made an exploratory trip to the Altai Mountains in northwestern China. The Altais had the most dangerous snowpack he had ever seen, which makes sense with its erratic snowfall and extreme cold continental climate.

Nobody who doesn't live in the region is going to bypass Japan to ski in China.

 

[berkshireskier]

See story below on the snowmaking setup for these Olympics:

What Artificial Snow at the 2022 Olympics Means for the Future of Winter Games

The 2022 Beijing Winter Olympics are the first to rely entirely on artificial snow. Here's what to know about artificial snow and its impact on the environment

time.com

Apparently, the snow guns that the Chinese are using were bought from an Italian company (but it doesn't say whether Italian personnel were responsible for actually making the snow that they used).
The commentators on the half-pipe snowboarding competition kept saying the composition of the half-pipe was, essentially, "snow concrete"; i.e., extremely hard and not very forgiving. I assume it was injected with water to make it that hard. But the competitors apparently like that sort of surface (maybe to get up more speed and be able to launch higher off the half-pipe?).

 

[ChrisC]

See story below on the snowmaking setup for these Olympics:

What Artificial Snow at the 2022 Olympics Means for the Future of Winter Games

The 2022 Beijing Winter Olympics are the first to rely entirely on artificial snow. Here's what to know about artificial snow and its impact on the environment

time.com

Apparently, the snow guns that the Chinese are using were bought from an Italian company (but it doesn't say whether Italian personnel were responsible for actually making the snow that they used).
The commentators on the half-pipe snowboarding competition kept saying the composition of the half-pipe was, essentially, "snow concrete"; i.e., extremely hard and not very forgiving. I assume it was injected with water to make it that hard. But the competitors apparently like that sort of surface (maybe to get up more speed and be able to launch higher off the half-pipe?).

The Chinese were smart to hire the Italian firm TechnoAlpin to make their slopes Olympic ready. When it does not snow in the Dolomites, it can be very tragic. (see pics below.......and why I want to ski the Dolomites, but will never make a commitment till snow on ground by Nov/Dec).

Supposedly the Italians have the best snowmaking in the world....possibly some of the Austrian resorts too. Hunter Mountain, Killington, and New England/Mid-Atlantic have nothing on these guys.

The Alps Are Melting. Climate Change Is to Blame

'The dream of skiing on Alpine snow is going to go away’

time.com

 

[ChrisC]

The Chinese who can afford to ski are already in Niseko or other Japanese resorts. Most of the owners of the Japanese ski resorts are now Hong Kong or China-based. (Is there a difference?)

Holidays to avoid in Japan - around Feb 1st - Chinese New Year. They are not building massive Hyatts in Niseko for a potential Japanese resurgence....most of Japan's ski infrastructure is in the late 1980s/early1990s when Japan was going to overtake the US. Did not happen - and the infrastructure is aging.

The next wave of investment is totally focused on the China market.

COVID kept the Chinese numbers down when I was in Japan in 2020 late Jan/early Feb. Japan was quarantining the Chinese in mass already.

These new Olympic resorts might be for the benefit of the Chinese Government trying to create an internal consumer spending economy. However, I assume most skiing Chinese would rather go to Japan. Or Europe - there is a reason why China to Milan COVID happened - Italian luxury goods. And Eileen Gu has a multi-million contract with Louis Vuitton.

My point: most Chinese will strive for something else than these white ribbons of death.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

That Dolomites article is unbelievably depressing, similar to the outdoor events in China.

 

[Tony Crocker]

The 2021 Vanat International Report on Snow and Mountain Tourism analyzes the 2019-20 season and its COVID shutdowns in particular. It also has a short section (pp. 17-19) discussing climate trends in the Alps over the past 50 years. The increase in winter temperatures during that time averaged 0.7C at 11 sites averaging 2,383 meters altitude. This would explain little change in winter snowfall at sufficient altitudes as with my extensive data in North America. The article also mentions that 0.65C increase in temperature raises the rain/snow line by 100 meters, which is the same as 1.0C raising rain/snow line 500 feet that I have mentioned a few times.

Temperature increases in the Alps in summer are much more (I've read 2.0C), which explains the shrinking of glaciers. Also, 2,383 meters is above considerable ski terrain in the Alps which has likely experienced a more negative impact.

As for the Dolomites, base elevations in Selva (1,563m), Corvara (1,568) and Arabba (1,600m) are above average for the Alps, with skiing generally topping out around 2,500m though the Marmolada goes up to 3,250m. I believe the issue in the Dolomites is a modest annual average with very high volatility, as it's almost impossible for Atlantic storms to get there while Mediterranean storms can be big but are much less frequent.

The long term climate models project a drying trend in the Mediterranean as in the American Southwest and central Chile. Given high weather volatility in all of these regions, it's still premature to be drawing conclusions.

Italy and the southern Alps in general are not having a good 2021-22 season so far. While I had hoped to start our March/April Euro trip with guided off-piste in the Dolomites, I think it's now more likely we will head for Austria after arriving in Venice.

The temperature increases in Olympic cities up to 9F are mostly urban heat island effect. Squaw Valley's was less than 1F. After 1994 the IOC has decided that Winter Games host cities should be major metro areas, presumably for the large arenas needed for hockey and ice skating events. The mountains for the ski events can be quite distant. In 2026 Cortina is 4.5 hours drive from Milan.

 

[EMSC]

From what I have heard and read, some of the racers have complained about the snow conditions on the race courses and other racers seem to be OK with it. I believe, on many of the World Cup race courses, they "inject" water on to the courses to "firm them up" and many racers like skiing on those rock-hard, icy courses. Not sure if they did that on these courses but the announcers keep saying the the snow is "grippy" and some racers are having a hard time adjusting to it.

Snowmaking is very much ART when you get to the practicalities of actually making snow of various types. Very different in cold/dry climates than humid ones, etc... Snowmaking for race hills/lanes, is generally made much wetter than for public runs for example. In addition, yes injecting the snow with water does happen, but it very much depends on the exact conditions existing ahead of a race as well as the event itself. eg you might be able to inject most of a SL or GS hill, but usually only key turns or sections of a DH course. And only if/as necessary based on the "icy"/hardness of the original snowmaking.

In addition, there can very much be too much water used, creating very hazardous and undesirable course conditions. Men are generically used to a bit harder conditions than the women as well (though not always). And on top of all of this, it really is only at the Nor-am/Europa Cup and World Cup levels that any injection is even considered. Its a messy, difficult, labor intensive process.

Not sure if for half-pipe it has changed, but last I knew they like to be able to bite into the sidewall decently, but not so much as to damage the pipe. Last I knew they used firm but very edge-able snow for the main pipe, then would come along with misting style sprayers to create a thin icy layer. So, hard enough to not rip chunks off the side of the pipe by each competitor, but the ice layer thin enough to easily bite through into the underlying snow. That was more like 10+ year ago stuff though, may be different by now.

 

[Marc_C]

I believe, on many of the World Cup race courses, they "inject" water on to the courses to "firm them up" and many racers like skiing on those rock-hard, icy courses.

The speed events at Snowbasin during the 2002 SLC Olympics were on mostly manufactured snow (hence the slight orange tint from the rock strata in the wells) plus natural. As I learned from a course worker, even with that, water was injected to bring the water content of the "snow" to 70%.