Big & Little Cottonwood Canyons: Should They Be Car-Reservation-Only On Weekends/Holidays?

[ChrisC]

I assume the ability to spontaneously drive up to skiing on a weekend or holiday in Big and Little Cottonwood Canyon will end soon.

Given the success of the Tahoe Ski Resort auto reservation programs, it's only a matter of time.

Likely, most Seattle resorts and possibly Portland ski areas will adopt it as well.

An unpopular ski resort policy may be making Tahoe more livable

Resorts say that requiring parking reservations reduces traffic and congestion, creating a better skier experience in Tahoe.

www.sfgate.com

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Fascinating to see the continued repercussions -- good and bad -- of the all-you-can-eat season passes.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

I assume the ability to spontaneously drive up to skiing on a weekend or holiday in Big and Little Cottonwood Canyon will end soon.

@jimk claims that the Cottonwoods are a breeze.

 

[EMSC]

ABasin is going to parking reservations required for all Weekends and Holidays next season. Won't be surprised if at least some others follow suit.

Eldora had required parking reservations for a couple seasons (initiated by pandemic, but then kept it going), then expanded the parking lots by 800 spots just to find out this season that they are back to parking out on peak weekends again only 2 years later... Eldora also charges single occupant cars on weekends and holidays ($10).

 

[Tony Crocker]

Alta and Brighton already require parking reservations Friday-Sunday. Solitude requires them Saturday, Sunday and holidays. Only Snowbird is holding out, despite pleas from Alta. This is the major reason the relationship between Alta and Snowbird is not cordial and skiers who want a combined season pass now pay the sum of two separate season passes.

Our former admin went on a lengthy rant blaming Snowbird for his degraded weekend warrior lifestyle, where even on non-powder days he must be at the bottom of LCC by 7:30AM and depart Alta before 3PM to avoid traffic delays.

Former admin made the point about dispersed arrival times for people with parking reservations. This argument was also made to me several years ago when Snow Summit in its second year under Mammoth's control converted most of the on-site parking to paid. Now all of Summit and Bear's onsite parking is paid with reservations required on weekends/holidays. Big Bear still has free parking in remote lots with a cattle car shuttle but that will chew up a minimum of 45 extra minutes round trip vs the on-site parking.

I will comment again that I do not see the demographic crush of more skier demand in recent years in SoCal/Mammoth that is so evident in Utah, Front Range Colorado, Seattle and Tahoe. But nearly all of my SoCal/Mammoth skiing is midweek as a retiree. Mammoth Memorial Day weekend is a bit more crowded but there is enough lift and parking capacity to handle that.

 

[ChrisC]

@jimk claims that the Cottonwoods are a breeze.

On a weekday.....And likely, weekend crowds dissipate by mid-March - except for a powder day.

I know 1-70 is a breeze in April, and pretty good by Mid-March. Not sure if i-70 is worse in December vs. March.

Generally, getting to Loveland and/or A-Basin is not too bad since you can avoid the Eisenhower tunnel.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

I had no idea that this is how it works. Lots to read but it makes sense given the horde challenges.

Parking Reservations

Navigate Alta's paid parking reservation system that Alta continues to implement in order to improve the Alta skiing experience that we all love.

www.alta.com

 

[EMSC]

On a weekday.....And likely, weekend crowds dissipate by mid-March - except for a powder day.

I know 1-70 is a breeze in April, and pretty good by Mid-March. Not sure if i-70 is worse in December vs. March.

Generally, getting to Loveland and/or A-Basin is not too bad since you can avoid the Eisenhower tunnel.

Not quite as good as you think in March. By ~1-2 weeks into April it gets OK unless big powder (including snow down in the metro).

December depends on the year/conditions. Doesn't have to be big pow then, just enough recent snow such that significant terrain is open at the resorts and perceived to be soft and it will be bad traffic. This year, which was horrid in Dec, had easy traffic.

Loveland and Abasin are barely better than anywhere else for heading up... The big pinch point on I70 is Floyd Hill headed up (unless pounding snow, then beyond Georgetown is also a mess). Also on the way down, Loveland and ABasin do miss the huge headache of getting through the tunnels, but mid-Winter it's a mess of stop and go from just past the tunnels all the way to Idaho Springs on weekends and holidays too. Again, even worse on snow storm days. So maybe better, but far from good I70 experiences for those.

Used to be much better for Winter Park which exits before you get to Georgetown, but Berthoud Pass road now backs up for miles now due to a traffic light in Empire just before you get to I70. Total nonsense. Then there is the fact that every couple years Berthoud gets avalanches onto the road at some point. The alternate route to get home then is to go North through Granby, then west to Kremmling, then south to Silverthorne just to join up with all the traffic already backed up trying to get up and through the Eisenhower tunnels! My boss had that fun this year and spent 8 hours getting home from Winter Park by 12:30am the next morning (normally a ~1.5hr drive on good roads, or maybe 2.5 hrs each way in bad traffic).

 

[jamesdeluxe]

every couple years Berthoud gets avalanches onto the road at some point. The alternate route to get home then is to go North through Granby, then west to Kremmling, then south to Silverthorne just to join up with all the traffic already backed up trying to get up and through the Eisenhower tunnels!

Exactly what happened to me in January 2011 but luckily I was driving from Loveland to WP -- smugly looking at all the traffic headed toward Silverthorne.

 

[jimk]

@jimk claims that the Cottonwoods are a breeze.

Cottonwood Canyon parking is not a breeze, but mostly manageable. I've been able to get free, unreserved parking there all 32 days I've skied Snowbird this season. There were probably two Saturdays in mid-winter when I might have skied, but decided not to go because of likely heavy crowds and parking issues, including one where I later heard very poor visibility was a big factor. There were a couple other busy, pow days where I went to Soli instead, and got a ride with a friend who had a parking spot. BTW, the paid and reservation systems at Sol/Bright seem to be working as intended - in my case. I have not gone up there once this season spontaneously, only when I had parking via a friend's spot.

Of course, parking in April at Snowbird is about as empty as Mineral Basin (10 apr 2024):

I confess that the idea of having to make reservations for parking is almost as big a turn off to me as having to pay for parking. Having to reserve and pay is a double turn off.

I need to have a good conversation with a couple of folks, if they exist, who happily navigate the Alta parking reservation system to see if they get parking every weekend they want to? If I was a season pass holder at Alta and couldn't ski there on any given weekend because I got shut out of parking I would not be happy. At least at Snowbird, if you go early enough, you'll get free, unreserved parking. But if Snowbird goes to reserve parking I guess I'd deal with it. There's always hitch hiking

I have heard that the reservation requirements at Sol/Bright has generally lessened traffic snarls and also alleviated the possibility of driving up there and getting shut out of all parking. But again, I don't know how many folks are not getting to ski on a given day because they didn't get a reservation before all were gone?

I discuss some of my strategies for typically successful parking at Snowbird, 7 days a week here: https://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards/threads/utah-feb-2-9-2024.14893/#post-91337
I discuss the very challenging parking/traffic situation of the record snowfall season of 2023 season here: https://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards/threads/snowbird-ut-winter-2023-parking-vs-liftlines.14674/

 

[ChrisC]

There were a couple other busy, pow days where I went to Soli instead, and got a ride with a friend who had a parking spot. BTW, the paid and reservation systems at Sol/Bright seem to be working as intended - in my case. I have not gone up there once this season spontaneously, only when I had parking via a friend's spot.

@jimk claims that the Cottonwoods are a breeze.

Well, a reserved spot at Solitude definitely can make things a breeze

Is the parking spot affiliated with a condo or purchased for a year?

The Intrawest Condo Village at Solitude certainly took away a lot of prime parking - perhaps even more so than Squaw’s Intrawest development.


I likely will not return to Utah until Deer Valley finishes their Phase 1 Expansion for 25/26.

Utah is no longer the value it once was - gone. Sounds more like a Pain In The A-s, than fun - parking reservations, lift ticket reservations, canyon commuting, etc. Even Snowbasin looks busy.

Even with great snowfall, it gets tracked too quickly.

Makes even crowded weekends at Jackson Hole look more fun.

However, I’d rather hop a flight to Spokane/Calgary for Bangf/Lake Louise, Kicking Horse, Revelstoke, Red Mt, Whitewater, Schweitzer, etc.

Or Telluride.

Or Europe. I bet you can Ski most destinations in Europe cheaper than Brighton/Solitude.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I need to have a good conversation with a couple of folks, if they exist, who happily navigate the Alta parking reservation system to see if they get parking every weekend they want to?

Our former admin claims no problems making Alta parking reservations. But he reiterates that his weekend traffic experience is degraded by Snowbird failing to do the same.

Or Europe. I bet you can Ski most destinations in Europe than Brighton/Solitude.

If jimk were still living in the DC area in the winter, we'd be pushing hard for him to be skiing in Europe. But retired with free lodging in SLC, it's hard to argue with his lifestyle, at least the midweek part of it. Similarly our Iron Blosam week experience has had minimal impact from traffic/crowd issues.

However, I’d rather hop a flight to Spokane/Calgary for Banff/Lake Louise, Kicking Horse, Revelstoke, Red Mt, Whitewater, Schweitzer, etc.

I do that every year too, centered around the 3 days of snowcat skiing. Good as the areas ChrisC mentioned above are, I prefer Fernie and Castle to all of those.

 

[jimk]

I think a key thing about enjoying a lot of ski resorts is how familiar and how well one knows how to navigate them. I can navigate the Cottonwood Canyon resorts pretty well at this time. I'm actually less knowledgeable about navigating Deer Valley and Jackson Hole and sometimes struggle to get the best of those two. I visited JH in 2018 and 2020 and it was very busy both times. Although snow was fun. I get to DV about once or twice a season and often find it to have very firm surfaces. I did have a pretty good powder day there this season with an instructor friend showing me some good glades.

 

[tseeb]

Well, a reserved spot at Solitude definitely can make things a breeze

Is the parking spot affiliated with a condo or purchased for a year?

:
:

I likely will not return to Utah until Deer Valley finishes their Phase 1 Expansion for 25/26.

I think the parking @jimk was referencing is a friend who made a paid parking reservation.

Not sure that Deer Valley expansion is going to add much more than another entrance to the mountain. I've used the Jordanelle parking and gondola to access Deer Valley which has similar exposure and also avoids going through Park City. Snow was thin and got icy in as it was shaded in afternoon.

That side of the mountain, especially at lower elevations, would not usually be skiable without snow-making. Seems like it's more of a real estate play partially funded with our, or at least Utah's, tax dollars from Extell’s collaboration with the state’s Military Installation Development Authority.

And you said "This is a disaster. Mayflower (now called East Village) is just a real estate play located in the low-snowfall, ugly, warm, sad back, backside of the Wasatch.

It's really poor terrain – high temps, low snowfall and bad (mostly east) exposure. Almost every run will need snowmaking. And not really a pretty area – scrub brush. There is a reason no one developed this area for 40+ years and why it remained private land (and not part of federal forest lands). It will ski similar to Deer Valley's Little Baldy pod."

See also https://snowbrains.com/what-deer-va...-acres-of-expanded-terrain-and-new-base-area/

 

[jamesdeluxe]

retired with free lodging in SLC, it's hard to argue with his lifestyle, at least the midweek part of it.

Agreed. With my front-row seat at Solitude, I didn't have to deal with the traffic/parking mess that weekenders and powder-day customers encounter since the Ikon takeover, similar to you and Iron Blosam.

 

[socal]

In the 2006-2009 years I used to fly out of LA to SLC maybe 5+ times a seasaon on a Friday and home on a Sunday night. We'd stay in Cottonwood heights or Sandy and drive up no problem, even on powder days. Obviously those days are gone and I've got a family now. When I go, either with friends of the family we go and stay either at Alta, Snowbird, or Solitude. No car, just a shuttle up and back. The crowds have been fine generally, just costs a lot more! Hard to beat the convenience for a short trip and the consistency of the conditions.

LCC is basically my go to for guys trips since we can ski the day we leave which makes a difference when its just a long weekend trip. After last April when we got snowed in at Snowbird for a week my wife's been a bit hesitant about booking LCC again.

 

[kingslug]

Well...
I never have the probs at PC...ill take the not as great skiing for easy access.
I bought an epic and ikon...see how that goes.
Not willing to pay 2700.00 for an altabird pass...yet.

 

[snowave]

I would probably quit riding if I had to deal with all the crowds/parking, etc that many of the major resorts are having. I'm so thankful I live in Idaho, and have two great ski areas that are still very manageable with crowds/parking. (Although, that may change over time if the development plans continue at these two areas, but I hope it will be a long time before that happens).

I feel for those that live in the big cities and have no other options, other than to travel or deal.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Not willing to pay 2700.00 for an altabird pass...yet.

I don't get this. Once you live there and aren't paying for transport and lodging, that $2,700 is a drop in the bucket.

And once you live there, the shoulder seasons (Alta early and Snowbird late) are usually far superior to the other places. As a retiree you could easily go through the 7 Ikon days at Alta before Christmas.

 

[ChrisC]

Not sure that Deer Valley expansion is going to add much more than another entrance to the mountain. I've used the Jordanelle parking and gondola to access Deer Valley which has similar exposure and also avoids going through Park City. Snow was thin and got icy in as it was shaded in afternoon.

That side of the mountain, especially at lower elevations, would not usually be skiable without snow-making. Seems like it's more of a real estate play partially funded with our, or at least Utah's, tax dollars from Extell’s collaboration with the state’s Military Installation Development Authority.

It's more of a curiosity to see what they develop. I often check Jordanelle once a visit—it's either machine-made ice or super-spring slurpee conditions.

There might be 2 pockets of semi-worthwhile skiing:

• Park Peak (Higher elevation, Phase 1 Bowl. However, this looks like primarily a ridge, short steep shots, and long-runout. But most seem to have an NE exposure, though)
• South Peak (Higher elevation, Later Phase. There might be some E/NE fall-line skiing).

Looks like there will be a partial opening for Winter 2024/25:

Deer Valley East Village to Open Next Season with Bubble Six Pack

Both destination and day skiers will gain a new option to access Deer Valley Resort next winter with the addition of a Doppelmayr bubble chairlift. The yet-to-be-named six pack will connect the Gra…

liftblog.com