Cannon Could Go Private

HDHaller

New member
As many of you New Hampshire skiers know, the state is looking very seriously at the privatization of Cannon Mountain and the topic has ignited lively debate. Here's a letter I wrote that was published in the local paper, The Courier:

To the editor,

In a recent issue of The Courier, a letter writer argued that the privatization of Cannon Mountain Ski Area might boost season pass prices to $1,000 and cause Cannon to lose its "real skier" salt-of-the-earth flavor. I'd like to comment.

Anyone who pays attention to the ski and snowboard industry knows that season-pass prices have been coming down, not going up. The current trend is to price day tickets higher and season passes lower, and to thereby convert more occasional skiers and riders to season pass holders. For 05/06, Booth Creek sold the "Threedom" season pass (good at Waterville, Cranmore and Loon) for less money than the state charges NH residents for a season pass at Cannon. Under private management, Cannon's season pass could actually become less expensive than it is now.

As for the supposedly down-to-earth clothes that characterize the "real" skiers at Cannon... who cares about clothes? Real skiing and riding aren't about old wool pants. They're about skiing and riding. And the skiing and riding experience at Cannon could be vastly improved were the mountain managed by a private firm.

The employees of ski area management firms are business and ski/snowboard-industry experts with outstanding training and experience. They are often avid, lifelong skiers and riders who hold college and graduate school degrees in marketing, operations, accounting, technology and even industry-specific subjects, and they have tremendous industry experience. For a good example of just such a team, look at the one that currently runs Bretton Woods. Look, too, at the awards and national recognition that area has recently won. And look at the fact that Cannon's own native son, Bode Miller, is the poster boy for Bretton Woods, rather than the poster boy for his own home mountain.

Privatization could bring to Cannon a sophisticated marketing and PR effort that could boost revenues. The added revenues could fund trail, snowmaking and grooming improvements, and might even bring the Mittersill annexation project to fruition, a project on which the state has been dragging its feet for more than 15 years.

It's also likely that Cannon's events, activities and programs would take on a greater variety, vitality and scope under private management, because top industry professionals know that lively events and programs bring energy, enthusiasm and life to a ski area. Those professionals also know how to develop the funds necessary to support events, activities and programs.

Most of the arguments area residents make against privatization boil down to two unworthy and prejudiced concerns. Firstly, current and former Cannon managers don't want to be outdone by a more capable, private management team. Secondly, many of the area's residents want to resist any change that might bring more "flatlanders" to town, because these area residents simply don't like flatlanders. But shouldn't we have enough maturity to look at a bigger picture than this?

The privatization of Cannon could make it the best ski area in the state, perhaps the best in New England. That could mean more terrain, better snow, better equipment and facilities, and more exciting activities and programs. In other words, a better, more enjoyable skiing and riding experience for a greater number of people. Wouldn't that be worth putting aside petty resentments?

Cannon's terrain has so much potential, so much more potential than, say, an unremarkable little hill like Bretton Woods. Wouldn't it be wonderful if Cannon also had the resources to bring that potential to life? Privatization could provide us with those resources.

H. David Haller
 
I agree... Cannon has awesome potential, but needs some TLC. I do like the twofers, etc. and the old world charm, but I doubt that would change too much... (too far from NYC!) It'd be great to see Mittersill incorporated into Cannon as well. There is some really great tree skiing back there, but it's a long hike out!
 
I just came back from my first visit there.

Other than the marginal snow, I really liked the place. Being a "flatlander", I can't comment on the local issues but I certainly can understand that feeling.

Speaking of the skiing only, there is vast potential, but I would hope that most of the current trails would be left as they are, perhaps with minor snowmaking upgrades (that junction at the bottom of Paulie's extention going to Avalanche or the lift is exciting for me, but I could imagine scenes of carnage there on busy days).

The twisty intermediate trails there should be historic landmarks off limits to change. They are a link to a New England skiing history that has largely disappeared as ski areas "develop". And the beginner area is extremely well set up and user friendly. Great little place for my 3 1/2 year old.

There is vast tree skiing potential on the tram side of the mountain. Clean up and prune a bit, cool. Make a few thinner gladed trails, fine.

Cut cruiser trails? Pretty steep over there. It would require a commitment to snowmaking that would be costly. Could happen with a corporate sponsor.

Whether that would be good or bad depends on your perspective (I like trees), and I wouldn't touch the Mittersill issue as I didn't even get to go over there.

But I will be back for more as it is now.
 
HDH, I appreciate your opinion and enthusiasm but I am on the polar side of your letter.
Just about everything you are looking to make Cannnon into are the reasons I dont ski MOST other resorts.
Privatization could bring to Cannon a sophisticated marketing and PR effort that could boost revenues. The added revenues could fund trail, snowmaking and grooming improvements, and might even bring the Mittersill annexation project to fruition, a project on which the state has been dragging its feet for more than 15 years.
I think privatization will make bottom lines #1 and the skiing experience #2. Cannon's following go there because they dont want the McMountain feel. I dont want an ultra modern 6 pack bubble quad whisking 10,000 skiers an hour to the top. I'd rather see an old T purchased and put up instead.
Developing Mittersill would be the end of my season pass. Leave Mittersill as is. It's already there and it's no big secret on how to get there. You want to ski Mittersill then take your skis off and walk five minutes.It's not like you're climbing to the summit of Mount Washington through Yale Gully.
The privatization of Cannon could make it the best ski area in the state, perhaps the best in New England. That could mean more terrain, better snow, better equipment and facilities, and more exciting activities and programs. In other words, a better, more enjoyable skiing and riding experience for a greater number of people. Wouldn't that be worth putting aside petty resentments?
Cannon already has the terrain. Snowmaking could use some help but I am happy with what they have done in a year like this. I want less activities that take up trails I want to ski. And I dont resent anyone, especially if they chose to ski Cannon.
Cannon's terrain has so much potential, so much more potential than, say, an unremarkable little hill like Bretton Woods. Wouldn't it be wonderful if Cannon also had the resources to bring that potential to life? Privatization could provide us with those resources.
I hope by potential you dont mean widening and flattening trails like professional management teams in the region seem to be doing at record pace. That is the excact opposite of what this skier is looking for and thats why they dont get my dollar.
((*
*))NHPH
 
NHPowderhound has some good points, too. I'd hate to see Cannon turn into Mt. Snow. As far as Mittersill, I don't mind the hike over, but it's the hike (or hitch-hike) back that's tough (If you want to ski fresh tracks), but I suppose that's why you can actually find fresh tracks!

One more thing, Do you think if they "privatize" Cannon, they could "fix" the Old Man of the Mountain?
 
I'm a little confused about what all this unrealized potential is that could be realized with the resources from privatization. The lift already goes to the top of the mountain. For me, that unlocks all the potential of the hill. What more do you want?
 
NHpowderhound":22qqwes5 said:
HDH, I appreciate your opinion and enthusiasm but I am on the polar side of your letter.
Just about everything you are looking to make Cannnon into are the reasons I dont ski MOST other resorts.

I'm on NHPH side on this one. Don't change Cannon too much. It's great as it is.
 
Yeah, I heard that Franconia Ski Club is going to buy it and turn it into a private country club for yuppies from Massachusetts.

Their goal is to take over the entire mountain for Bode-wannabes, and eliminate those snowboarders and telemark skiers that get in the way of their high-speed GS cruising runs and human slaloms.

In reality, if a private management group won a 30-year lease, they would never put up with FSC closing 2-3 trails to the public on Saturdays. Last weekend's closure of Middle Ravine and Turnpike to the public was only part of the story, as other FSC skiers trained elsewhere on the mountain. I watched terrified parents trying to shield their children on Middle Cannon from speeding groups of FSC kids and coaches. I was nearly run off the trail myself several times.

Oh my god, we need some snow, so we can disperse and get off the carpet. Usually at this time of year, my friends and are far away from the in-bounds traffic jams at Cannon.

I am dead-set against privatization, but the current management policies are going too far in accomodating FSC's need for terrain. Why the heck don't they train on Banshee, away from the public, where the snowmakers made them plenty of snow?

Sure, if I was Head Coach at FSC, I'd rather train on Turnpike too. But last time I checked, the tax payers of New Hampshire were not running Franconia Notch State Park exclusively for the benefit of 200 kids and their parents.

In the past, I've come to the defense of FSC in this forum, but my patience with the trail closures and human slalom has worn thin.

It's time to close some trails to the FSC racers. Imagine, Middle and Lower Cannon with no high-speed weaving in and out of traffic allowed...

Management is doing the best job ever. Snowmaking this year did a phenominal job. Ski patrol is doing a great job (the FSC speeders are not their fault, the patrollers should not be turned into traffic cops with speed guns, the FSC coaches should control their kids). Grooming is doing the best they can; though unable to build any half-pipe, or much of a terrain park this year, that doesn't bother me. Best lift ops in the State (love the tunes they pick on the new Bose sound system at the Cannonball).

Point of my rant is keep it State-managed, but reign-in FSC, and leave Mittersill undeveloped.
 
Lftgly":1uo9s0y1 said:
Yeah, I heard that Franconia Ski Club is going to buy it and turn it into a private country club for yuppies from Massachusetts.

Their goal is to take over the entire mountain for Bode-wannabes, and eliminate those snowboarders and telemark skiers that get in the way of their high-speed GS cruising runs and human slaloms.

In reality, if a private management group won a 30-year lease, they would never put up with FSC closing 2-3 trails to the public on Saturdays. Last weekend's closure of Middle Ravine and Turnpike to the public was only part of the story, as other FSC skiers trained elsewhere on the mountain. I watched terrified parents trying to shield their children on Middle Cannon from speeding groups of FSC kids and coaches. I was nearly run off the trail myself several times.

Saturday was a glorious day weather wise. I noticed the races going on too, and it reminded me of Hunter where they'll pick one of the more popular runs on the front face of the mountain and shut it down to the public. At least Cannon set it up so you could access most of what was available elsewhere. I've seen fences set up for races at Hunter on one trail that then block off access to other trails.

Cannon's snowmaking is certainly adequate, but the lack of any natural snow made the mountain a little boring after 3 days, as it would at any other ski area.

When it's going full tilt and there's lots of snow, Cannon strikes me as an outstanding expert's mountain. If we can just squeeze out one big storm this season I'll be back there the next day.
 
RE: lftgly post
once again, racer terrorists spreading their love and joy all over :twisted:
:roll:
i don't play the lottery, as it was drilled into me by my econ 101 teacher in college that it is a scam.. he did say though, that when the big pots are out there, throwing down a 10 spot is not a bad hedge bet. if i hit the big one for 145 mill tonight, i am going on record that i will buy cannon, ban all racers, have one half the hill for tele skiers families and kids and the other half for seeded , perfect left right bumps with a full commitment to snowmaking . double d will be director of skiing, jimg will be executive vice president of mountain operations, hd and cj will be the top dog instructors and marc g director of media relations... f.s.c will be s#&t out of luck as they say, until they trade in the tight suits for high profile pants with knee marks :D . i'll lose a ton of money for sure, but it will be worth it not to have to ski with racers anymore :roll:
 
It'd be great to see Mittersill incorporated into Cannon as well.
i couldn't disagree more and cannon will likely only see this die hard cannon skier once or twice a year the day mittersill has a lift. F that, pardon my french. why ruin one of the most unique terrain aspects in all of new england? as for the hike back, you aren't taking the "right" trails. though you are likely getting better snow for your efforts. having done so, i am amazed you would be for development.

important to note that the pending issue is leasing cannon, not privatizing it. the state would still own the mountain similar to sunapee.

i have spouted off on this issue continuously on other forums for the last few months now, i simply don't have the heart to retype the arguements against the lease. it would be one of the biggest blows to interesting terrain in the the current era of new england skiing that i could imagine. it would be one of the biggest knotches in the cap of homogenized mcskiing mega resorts ever if a corporation gets it's grimey paws on cannon.
 
20thSkier":3f7zt9wo said:
I'm a little confused about what all this unrealized potential is that could be realized with the resources from privatization. The lift already goes to the top of the mountain. For me, that unlocks all the potential of the hill. What more do you want?

-More man-made snow. Cover the whole trail, from woods to woods, with a deep layer, not just a narrow strip down the middle. Skiable acreage on Zoomer, Avalanche and other trails is cut in half whenever there isn't ample natural snow, because they don't make snow all the way to the trail's edges.

-Better, more skiable, man-made snow. Cannon makes some of the hardest, most icy snow around. I hear the head snowmaker refuses to go to snow-making technology classes because he thinks he knows it all (but he was the guy in charge when they froze up the system last year).

-Fewer snowmaking system breakdowns!

-Lift access to recut, original Mittersill trails and the new Mittersill trails and glades the state has been planning for years now. If you didn't know Mittersill when it was a fully functioning area, you don't know what you're missing.

-A ski club that doesn't hog the mountain or endanger other skiers to unreasonable degrees. (See FSC note above.)

-A whole trail or two devoted to moguls. Bumps are left ungroomed only on the edges of Zoomer, Rocket, Avalanche, etc., where the cover is thin and rocky. There are often no skiable bumps on the whole mountain.

-A freestyle program for all of those kids who go through the ski school's "bumps and jumps" program and find themselves with nowhere to go when they age out of it at 13, and for all of those FSC kids who'd rather be competing in freestyle, not to mention the kids who never receive any coaching or instruction and just flounder around in the park or on Cannon's scabby moguls.

-A safe, well-designed, well-maintained terrain park and half-pipe.

-Toilet seats that aren't perpetually wet with piss. Toilets that are not clogged. Bathroom fans that actually remove odors from the room.

-Customer service carried out with a warm smile, rather than a cold, Yankee, municipal-worker stare that belongs at the DMV, but not at a ski area.

HD Haller
 
joegm":36go8n1j said:
RE: lftgly post
once again, racer terrorists spreading their love and joy all over :twisted:
:roll:
i don't play the lottery, as it was drilled into me by my econ 101 teacher in college that it is a scam.. he did say though, that when the big pots are out there, throwing down a 10 spot is not a bad hedge bet. if i hit the big one for 145 mill tonight, i am going on record that i will buy cannon, ban all racers, have one half the hill for tele skiers families and kids and the other half for seeded , perfect left right bumps with a full commitment to snowmaking . double d will be director of skiing, jimg will be executive vice president of mountain operations, hd and cj will be the top dog instructors and marc g director of media relations... f.s.c will be s#&t out of luck as they say, until they trade in the tight suits for high profile pants with knee marks :D . i'll lose a ton of money for sure, but it will be worth it not to have to ski with racers anymore :roll:

:D Glad to be included in the plan!

-HD
 
HDHaller":355e83k2 said:
-More man-made snow. Cover the whole trail, from woods to woods, with a deep layer, not just a narrow strip down the middle. Skiable acreage on Zoomer, Avalanche and other trails is cut in half whenever there isn't ample natural snow, because they don't make snow all the way to the trail's edges.
i remember a day when they didn't even groom down the center of zoomer. you give a concession and they folks take a mile. some skiers who appreciate cannon for what it is actually enjoy all that fun ungroomed snow under the lift and on skiers right. same with right side of avalanche. avalanche used to bump up edge to edge too. i think you misinterpert cannon not blowing snow edge to edge on the front five as a lack of commitment to edge to edge, when in reality, they threw us expert skiers who were outraged at overgrooming a bone.

-Better, more skiable, man-made snow. Cannon makes some of the hardest, most icy snow around. I hear the head snowmaker refuses to go to snow-making technology classes because he thinks he knows it all (but he was the guy in charge when they froze up the system last year).
so now you are blaming the head snowmaker instead of the weather and wind for cannon's hard pack? i think an entire system over haul would be needed to improve the snow making system. it isn't a bad one and it gets the job done admirably, in this skiers opinion. too well sometimes.

-Fewer snowmaking system breakdowns!
last year's pipe freeze was the first i am aware of. would be willing to hear some citations of other system breakdowns. it is likely an old system, but it gets the job done. a leaser would not likely improve their snow making system. how would they get the money back? skier visits will not increase that much due to a lease to cover a over haul of the whole system.

-Lift access to recut, original Mittersill trails and the new Mittersill trails and glades the state has been planning for years now. If you didn't know Mittersill when it was a fully functioning area, you don't know what you're missing.
and if you think mittersill would be improved by having a lift, i don't think you know what you are missing. i do know what i am missing, i am missing the same ole' trails at any ski area tracked up with lots of skiers and wide homogenized trails. the only thing that would go missing would be a unique ski experience.

-A ski club that doesn't hog the mountain or endanger other skiers to unreasonable degrees. (See FSC note above.)
you win that one, FSC is outta control sometimes. but i suspect a lease would provide protection for FSC just like the burke sale protected BMA racers. this is a non-issue cause things won't likely change any more than a few positive feedback comments will to the current management.

-A whole trail or two devoted to moguls. Bumps are left ungroomed only on the edges of Zoomer, Rocket, Avalanche, etc., where the cover is thin and rocky. There are often no skiable bumps on the whole mountain.
ummmm........ TAFT SLALOM, UPPER HARDSCRABBLE, MIDDLE HARDSCRABBLE, PAULIE'S EXTENSION, PAULIE'S FOLLY??? :roll: i can at least see your point with your other comments, i can agree to disagree that we see those other issues differently and i am only providing my perspective and opinion. but to suggest cannon has no trails devoted to bumps is ignorant. granted, there are never enough and the grooming down the center of avalanche and zoomer was an interesting compromise compared to grooming the trails flat, but there are plently of all bump trails at cannon (taft and extension are occasionally groomed, but the others are not.

-A freestyle program for all of those kids who go through the ski school's "bumps and jumps" program and find themselves with nowhere to go when they age out of it at 13, and for all of those FSC kids who'd rather be competing in freestyle, not to mention the kids who never receive any coaching or instruction and just flounder around in the park or on Cannon's scabby moguls.

-A safe, well-designed, well-maintained terrain park and half-pipe.
fair enough. cannon needs to work on its park and hasn't had a half pipe in a few years. i don't see the need though, the park rats are going to loon and waterville valley. the FSC kids obviously aren't interested in freestyle, so that doesn't seem like a valid reason. the FSC kids likely get enough mogul training by running BD or TB.

-Toilet seats that aren't perpetually wet with piss. Toilets that are not clogged. Bathroom fans that actually remove odors from the room.
never had this problem and i use all of cannon's restrooms frequently.

-Customer service carried out with a warm smile, rather than a cold, Yankee, municipal-worker stare that belongs at the DMV, but not at a ski area.
:shock: :shock: :shock:
cannon has some of the best customer service i have experienced any where. i get service with a smile all the time. i have classed with management once or twice over policies that contradicted what i was told by someone at the front desk, but i got over that quickly enough. i get more of that crap at the big resorts with the red tape flying around everywhere any ways. i wasn't like i had a 30 minute wait for a lift ticket at cannon like i once did at stowe. i'd put cannon's customer service in the top 10% of ski areas i have been to. gotta disagree with you on this one to. for the record, i am not a pass holder but put about 25-30% of my lift serviced days in at cannon.
 
Just take a look at what's happening a little further up the road at Vail... umm.. I mean Burke Mt. The Ginn Corp. is trying to make Burke into Stratton with ski valets, four star dining, golf and condo villages, etc. (Opps, sounds like Stowe!) Like Cannon, Burke was always a blast back to the past and a "skiers" mountain. It may be nice that they'll be able to afford snowmaking, but I must admit I feel a bit sad about losing this hidden gem to the men in suits... I would hate to see Cannon go this route (and it probably never could because it's state land), and the more I think about it, I'd rather keep it as is than turn it into a Loon. It's a great option to have on a powder day... If you want cruisers, you have Loon, Waterville, Bretton Woods, etc. Cannon's got some awesome stashes and it's price (Tuesdays & Thurdays) is amazing... I'd hate to lose that!
 
Riverc0il wrote
i think you misinterpert cannon not blowing snow edge to edge on the front five as a lack of commitment to edge to edge, when in reality, they threw us expert skiers who were outraged at overgrooming a bone.

Very well put! I would much rather have a few days of "technicle" skiing on the sides because the end result is a much more appealling product to experts in the end. And the groomed centre or side is a good compromise.
I am of the mindset that every trail doesn't need snowmaking.
((*
*))NHPH
 
BigDaddy":v7o1mk9t said:
Just take a look at what's happening a little further up the road at Vail... umm.. I mean Burke Mt. The Ginn Corp. is trying to make Burke into Stratton with ski valets, four star dining, golf and condo villages, etc.
this remains to be seen. ginn is polishing burke up currently, but i think they are positioning themselves to be something rather special to market to the potential million dollar home buyers, so i suspect the classic old school nature of the mountain may retained. at least i am hopeful of this, the next two years will be very telling of what ginn intends to do with the ski area. but i maintain ginn's focus will be to polish the ski area and then focus on what really matters in bringing in money, real estate, a hotel, and golf courses. i don't foresee straton-esque ski village, the tamarack grill and polished aspect of the base lodge was very welcome, and condos existed pre-ginn. ginn hasn't showed their cards yet, but what they have done was make much needed improvements that the ski area could not survive without.
 
riverc0il":2z7g5v6a said:
HDHaller":2z7g5v6a said:
-More man-made snow. Cover the whole trail, from woods to woods, with a deep layer, not just a narrow strip down the middle. Skiable acreage on Zoomer, Avalanche and other trails is cut in half whenever there isn't ample natural snow, because they don't make snow all the way to the trail's edges.
i remember a day when they didn't even groom down the center of zoomer. you give a concession and they folks take a mile. some skiers who appreciate cannon for what it is actually enjoy all that fun ungroomed snow under the lift and on skiers right. same with right side of avalanche. avalanche used to bump up edge to edge too. i think you misinterpert cannon not blowing snow edge to edge on the front five as a lack of commitment to edge to edge, when in reality, they threw us expert skiers who were outraged at overgrooming a bone.

-Better, more skiable, man-made snow. Cannon makes some of the hardest, most icy snow around. I hear the head snowmaker refuses to go to snow-making technology classes because he thinks he knows it all (but he was the guy in charge when they froze up the system last year).
so now you are blaming the head snowmaker instead of the weather and wind for cannon's hard pack? i think an entire system over haul would be needed to improve the snow making system. it isn't a bad one and it gets the job done admirably, in this skiers opinion. too well sometimes.

-Fewer snowmaking system breakdowns!
last year's pipe freeze was the first i am aware of. would be willing to hear some citations of other system breakdowns. it is likely an old system, but it gets the job done. a leaser would not likely improve their snow making system. how would they get the money back? skier visits will not increase that much due to a lease to cover a over haul of the whole system.

-Lift access to recut, original Mittersill trails and the new Mittersill trails and glades the state has been planning for years now. If you didn't know Mittersill when it was a fully functioning area, you don't know what you're missing.
and if you think mittersill would be improved by having a lift, i don't think you know what you are missing. i do know what i am missing, i am missing the same ole' trails at any ski area tracked up with lots of skiers and wide homogenized trails. the only thing that would go missing would be a unique ski experience.

-A ski club that doesn't hog the mountain or endanger other skiers to unreasonable degrees. (See FSC note above.)
you win that one, FSC is outta control sometimes. but i suspect a lease would provide protection for FSC just like the burke sale protected BMA racers. this is a non-issue cause things won't likely change any more than a few positive feedback comments will to the current management.

-A whole trail or two devoted to moguls. Bumps are left ungroomed only on the edges of Zoomer, Rocket, Avalanche, etc., where the cover is thin and rocky. There are often no skiable bumps on the whole mountain.
ummmm........ TAFT SLALOM, UPPER HARDSCRABBLE, MIDDLE HARDSCRABBLE, PAULIE'S EXTENSION, PAULIE'S FOLLY??? :roll: i can at least see your point with your other comments, i can agree to disagree that we see those other issues differently and i am only providing my perspective and opinion. but to suggest cannon has no trails devoted to bumps is ignorant. granted, there are never enough and the grooming down the center of avalanche and zoomer was an interesting compromise compared to grooming the trails flat, but there are plently of all bump trails at cannon (taft and extension are occasionally groomed, but the others are not.

-A freestyle program for all of those kids who go through the ski school's "bumps and jumps" program and find themselves with nowhere to go when they age out of it at 13, and for all of those FSC kids who'd rather be competing in freestyle, not to mention the kids who never receive any coaching or instruction and just flounder around in the park or on Cannon's scabby moguls.

-A safe, well-designed, well-maintained terrain park and half-pipe.
fair enough. cannon needs to work on its park and hasn't had a half pipe in a few years. i don't see the need though, the park rats are going to loon and waterville valley. the FSC kids obviously aren't interested in freestyle, so that doesn't seem like a valid reason. the FSC kids likely get enough mogul training by running BD or TB.

-Toilet seats that aren't perpetually wet with piss. Toilets that are not clogged. Bathroom fans that actually remove odors from the room.
never had this problem and i use all of cannon's restrooms frequently.

-Customer service carried out with a warm smile, rather than a cold, Yankee, municipal-worker stare that belongs at the DMV, but not at a ski area.
:shock: :shock: :shock:
cannon has some of the best customer service i have experienced any where. i get service with a smile all the time. i have classed with management once or twice over policies that contradicted what i was told by someone at the front desk, but i got over that quickly enough. i get more of that crap at the big resorts with the red tape flying around everywhere any ways. i wasn't like i had a 30 minute wait for a lift ticket at cannon like i once did at stowe. i'd put cannon's customer service in the top 10% of ski areas i have been to. gotta disagree with you on this one to. for the record, i am not a pass holder but put about 25-30% of my lift serviced days in at cannon.

Rivercoil,

As a lifetime Cannon skier, someone who's done 50-100 days per season at Cannon between '98 and '05, and the person who founded and taught the ski school mogul / terrain-park class to which HD refers, I can tell you that much of what he says is true.

In your response to his first point about covering Zoomer and other trails with man-made snow from edge to edge, you've confused grooming and snowmaking. HD is right; the mountain makes just a strip of snow down the middle of Zoomer, and leaves the edges, and the whole Zoomer lift line, to mother nature. The edges are often too rocky or grassy to ski, so half the trail goes to waste. Surely, you're not saying mountain managers do this because you like to ski on grass and rocks?

You say that "to suggest cannon has no trails devoted to bumps is ignorant." Well, I was Cannon's only dedicated mogul instructor between '98 and '05, and one of the only competitive mogul skiers to ever come out of Cannon, but I guess I'm ignorant as well, because I say HD is positively right about this. There is no whole, dedicated mogul trail at Cannon. Most of the spots that are left bumpy are those rocky and grassy trail edges. Season after season, I struggled to find moguls for my class to train on. I assure you, this is accurate.

Taft, Hardscrabble and Paulie's are not mogul trails. Taft is groomed as regularly as anything else. Hardscrabble is all-natural snow, frequently rocky and frequently closed. Paulie's Extension is frequently groomed, certainly not a dedicated mogul trail. And Paulie's itself has the same problems Hardscrabble has.

And why dismiss the idea of a freestyle team at Cannon? Because you're not interested in one? Kids and parents at Cannon have asked me to start one. I asked managers about it and they were very cool to the idea... had their hands full with the race club, they told me. Why should Cannon kids have to move to Loon or Waterville when they become interested in freestyle? Plenty of these kids are Cannon regulars. Their whole family's ski the mountain every weekend (more often than you ski it). They own and rent condos and homes in the area. Why shouldn't their mountain offer freestyle?

I don't know that privatization would solve all of these problems, but these problems do exist.

-Dan DiPiro
 
dan, i think we come from two different sides of the bump debate and i am sure joegm will jump in to agree with that assessment. i enjoy natural bumps. as a bumping pro, i am going to guess you enjoy man made and seeded bumps. so i wasn't confusing snowmaking with grooming, i know they only snowmake down the center of zoomer and avi, and that is how i like it. i enjoy a certain lake of snow making and some roughness on the edges (figuratively and literally). there aren't as many rocks as you suggest. and i gotta disagree on the bump trails, they do mow down the bumps on taft and extension when they get ugly, but more often than not these trails are grow rather wild. for example, taft slalom. paulie's and hardscrabble are a little scratchy sometimes, but when the snow is right, there are no trails better. period. that lack of snow making contributes to these wild trails. they ARE bump trails. they are most definitely not man made snow, man seeded, and man controlled bumps. they are wild and fun bumps for those that like something a little different. and when the snow is good, there are no rocks... like any other trail in new england that requires natural snow to bump up such as mrg or castlerock, the hardscrabbles and paulie's need some good natural snow to do so and that is fine with me.

and i did agree with HD that cannon could stand to increase it's park and pipe. i was just speculating on whether there is a demand or not for it. i agreed with HD on this item with a qualifier "if they build it, will they come?" hey, i sure hope so.
 
riverc0il":2p0ir6vy said:
... i enjoy natural bumps. as a bumping pro, i am going to guess you enjoy man made and seeded bumps. so i wasn't confusing snowmaking with grooming, i know they only snowmake down the center of zoomer and avi, and that is how i like it. i enjoy a certain lake of snow making and some roughness on the edges (figuratively and literally). there aren't as many rocks as you suggest. and i gotta disagree on the bump trails, they do mow down the bumps on taft and extension when they get ugly, but more often than not these trails are grow rather wild. for example, that lack of snow making contributes to these wild trails. they ARE bump trails. they are most definitely not man made snow, man seeded, and man controlled bumps. they are wild and fun bumps for those that like something a little different. and when the snow is good, there are no rocks...

and i did agree with HD that cannon could stand to increase it's park and pipe. i was just speculating on whether there is a demand or not for it. i agreed with HD on this item with a qualifier "if they build it, will they come?" hey, i sure hope so.

Rivercoil,

You don't understand. I literally grew up on the natural bumps under the Zoomer chair. I learned and trained on Cannon's natural bumps, competed on all-natural bumps, taught on Cannon's natural bumps, and never even skied seeded courses until the last few years. (I'm 40 yrs old.)Cannon has never seen a seeded bump in its entire existence and I am a lifelong Cannon mogul skier. Those "wild and fun... different" bumps you speak of? I've probably skied more of them than you've ever even laid eyes on. I devote nearly a whole chapter in my book to skiing just such irregular, natural bumps.

Your logic suggests that natural (not seeded) bumps only occur in natural snow, but natural bumps crop up in man-made snow, too. I like skiing all-natural snow... that's part of why Mittersill is nice. But when you have trails that very rarely hold enough natural snow for bumps and troughs without rocks or grass (and I've got piles of old bump skis in the basement with bottoms bearing evidence of those rocks), you need a little man made to start with. But don't take my word for it.

Why don't you travel to Cannon today and ski the left and right edges of Zoomer, those natural snow areas you like so much. They've been rocky, grassy and pretty much unskiable for most of the year. There's just a man made strip down the middle of Zoomer that's safe and skiable right now. But you go ahead and ski the edges and have a ball. This is what HD and I are talking about. The edges are unskiable right now.

You're just plain, dead wrong about Taft. More often than not, it is groomed. Taft is not even close to being a dedicated mogul trail. You write forcefully, but you don't know Cannon as well as you pretend to know it, and your understanding of natural bumps, seeded bumps and snow-making is muddled.

-Dan DiPiro
 
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