Cannon, NH: 02/19/05

[riverc0il]

picture perfect day at cannon as you will see below. one of (if not the) most beautiful days i have ever spent on cannon and in the whites. the sun was shining, the sky was a deep clear blue, hardy a cloud all day, and the trees were coated with an amazing amount of snow. fantastic.

unfortunately, cannon's snow report of up to 12" was kinda hyped. i only noticed a solid 12" under the cannonball quad, else where it seemed most of the mountain got a solid 4-6".......... on top of a coating of rain which wasn't mentioned in the official reports. not that i should expect that. but i should be thankful for the less than fully forthcoming offical report or else i would have bypassed cannon heading north to burke and missed out on a stellar day.

off what i skied at cannon, taft to the hards was very nice. coverage over the rocks mostly filled in since last week's brutality. bumps top to bottom on mid hard, very nice bumps at that with some thin cover on the final pitch which wasn't much of an issue. bypassing the red ball cut off and doing it the old fashion way not only makes you feel superior and old school, but accesses the top of red ball which still had dozens of lines of untracked!!! w00t1!!!! seriously, i take back my comments last week about the red ball cut through being bad, i couldn't believe it!

front face had bumps in their usual places with zoomer getting a thumbs down except under the lift which always seems to collect nice snow being pushed over from the brutally groomed and scraped down center line. paulie's was a challenge with some scrapage between bumps just a tad to far apart.

as for the rest, some people said it was the best they've seen taft all year. as opposed to what, last week?? hello! another person quited that the snow was better than last week. ummmmm.... yea. any ways, dust on crust started the afternoon on the natural trails as i nailed first tracks up the saddle. delightful afternoon in which i feel like i hiked more than i skied at only 10 runs total

 

[frenchbasher]

Steve, you're pretty good at taking photos!!! Funny how the lens you were using taking the view of the Mtn. from the Tram made it look flatter than it is. I downloaded the view of North Kisman from the summit. You should try and put a skier in to the right side of the picture which would make it quite professional. I have a camera with a timer and a tripod so that I can get in the photo, myself!!! My lens isn't all that good for mtn's, though. I want to find a wireless remote for a camera, too. That gives you a chance at catching birds or other wildlife. Lastly, I'm trying to reduce the size of the file for this thumbnail I have posted and use it in my avatar but I can't do it. Any suggestions? Keep up the reports. I want to know if there will be enough snow for spring skiing. Also, how hard is the climb to Mitt?

 

[AlpineZone]

Lastly, I'm trying to reduce the size of the file for this thumbnail I have posted and use it in my avatar but I can't do it. Any suggestions?

See attached. I got it down to 1.71 KB for you. There should be a JPG compression option somewhere in your image editing software. I use Paint Shop Pro and there's an "Options..." button in the Save as... dialogue box.

 

[frenchbasher]

Thanx. Right now I can't do it. Too busy skiing.

 

[joegm]

it's too bad cannon won't get their heads out of their ass and seed moguls on at least one of the front face trails... all this new snow and they are still not fun to ski, apparently... river describes what happens to steep trails that are allowed to bump up with turns laid down by more recreational skiers than expert skiers which clearly seems to be the case at cannon ( and most places for that matter ) the exception i think would be mad river as there just are not too many frauds skiing the bump lines at mrg. ... funny how at loon the bumps they built ( super tight left right turns ) on rum were skiable all last week for the most part.... building them like this ( tight ) limits the amount of space between them for the unskilled bump skier to slide down and scrape off and creat those 10 to 12 foot gaps of slick ... it's better for the upper level skier in the long and short run...what awful terrain management on cannon's part :evil: :roll: ( and most places... not just to pick on cannon ) :evil:

 

[LobsterTeleGrrrl]

Nice TR. I'm inspired. I keep hearing good things about Cannon, it may be time to make the drive over. The one time I skied there it was the last day of the season. Not much terrain left to ski on with the spring thaw.

tg

 

[frenchbasher]

I keep hearing good things about Cannon, it may be time to make the drive over. The one time I skied there it was the last day of the season. Not much terrain left to ski on with the spring thaw.

tg

Let's see, I have been skiing Cannon for two reasons. One would be it is on the Interstate and thus beats the drives to Wildcat and Bretton Woods from the cities in the South. The second would be that I have a N.H. license and can use it on the N.H. days (Wed.) to ski for $15 which is less than the 2 for 1 days at the other resorts. In regards to the post about Mogul Management, I gave up bashing bumps due to what it was doing to my knees. Thus I can't complain about the way they groom at Cannon. I've had some good spring skiing there as the North facing and notch side slopes don't catch as much sun as some of the other areas. On my last trip I discovered a good $50 motel which is much closer than the other motels I had been using. However, the best motel deals on the other side of the Mtn range are in Gorham. It isn't a long drive from there to any of the above mentioned resorts. Cannon does not have large lodges, but I have never found it crouded during the week. Bretton Woods on the other hand does have a large lodge and it can be full mid-week.

 

[joegm]

yo frenchie... buy john smart's " smart mogul skiing" dvd and see how the myth of moguls being tough on your knees gets exposed as a lie... good bump skiers don't have strain on the knees.. it's all about absorption and extension with proper body postion :wink: ... and it would be much easier for you to learn to ski moguls properly with no strain on your knees if a place like cannon would provide you with a proper learning area with properly made bumps....your statement about giving up on bumps proves my point...and it justifies what i have been ranting about for three years now... we have novice race courses ( NASTAR ) .. novice flat terrain ( GREEN CIRCLES ) novice jumps ( MINI BOOTERS ) novice half pipes ( MINI PIPES WITH 5 FOOT WALLS ) novice rails ( 6 INCHES OFF THE GROUND ) novice tree skiing ( FLAT TERRAIN SPACED FAR APART ).....BUT FOR SOME REASON MOGULS ARE ONLY ON CRAP LIKE PAULIES FOLLY....thanks for making my point!!!!!! :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[frenchbasher]

joey, my good buddy, I'm not buyin' much these days except wine and cheese, but boy, am I skiing. It looks like we'll see more snow in S.E. Mass soon, so I'm not lookin' at bumps in the near future. Sorry, but if I can avoid any kind of man-made stuff like >>les bosses<<, I will. No long drives but plenty of Mother Nature's finest, now that is my idea of retirement on Cape Cod.

 

[Anonymous]

Moguls are formed by the skiers on that trail. If there are

steep trails that are allowed to bump up with turns laid down by more recreational skiers than expert skiers

its becasue it's those

frauds

who are putting in their time on those trails.

I was at Cannon last week too. I zip-lined skiers-right bumps on Gary's, Rocket, Zommer, and Paulie's as well as left-side Avalanche all day. Sure they were on the "scrapier" side. But that's what skiing in New England is all about - adaptation and ability. I found plenty of soft pockets all through those lines. It's just matter of learning to read the rythym of any given bump-line (hint: it's usually ~2' closer to the trees than the obvious line).

There's a thread in a different section of this board about the "soul of skiing". I hadn't weighed in on that thread because others had done it justice. But I'll respond here that a conversation about "seeded" bumps might be the closest thing to the death-of-the-soul-of-skiing.

Side-note: Is it really a "myth" and a "lie" that mogul skiing is tough on the knees? I thought it was just common sense. I'm no statistician, but I do follow skiing. My guess is that mogul skiiers have a disproportionate number of knee surgeries. At least my friends who've been on the curcuit have had a lot more than other people I know. I'll make sure they learn that

good bump skiers don't have strain on the knees

 

[joegm]

I?M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT YOUR POINT IS IN YOUR SELECTIVELY HIGHLIGHTED QUOTES :? .
MOVING RIGHT ALONG?IF YOU WERE ABLE TO IT , I THINK THAT?S GREAT YOU WERE ABLE TO ? ZIP LINE ? VERY WELL :? , ALL THOSE ASSORTED LINES YOU NAMED OFF, ALTHOUGH I AM REMINDED OF THE FAMOUS LINE BY GRAND MASTER PLAKE IN THE GREATEST SKI MOVIE EVER MADE ? FISTFUL OF MOGULS

?? NOW MOGULS? THERE?S SOMETHING YOU DO NOT BUY? YOU EARN? THERE SOMETHING YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT IN THE BAR, ( OR FIRSTRACKS ONLINE :wink: ) ABOUT HOW BAD ASS YOUR MOGUL RUN WAS CAUSE EVERYONE WAS THERE? EVERYONE SAW IT.. IT WAS RIGHT THERE UNDER THE CHAIR WHERE THERE IS NOWHERE TO HIDE ? ?.

NOW FOR SOME OF YOUR MORE SILLY ASSERTIONS :roll: :

? IT?S JUST A MATTER OF LEARNING TO READ THE RHYTHM OF ANY GIVEN

BUMP LINE :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: ? . IT?S THAT EASY HUH, GUEST? WHO KNEW? SILLY ME SPENDING ALL THIS TIME AND MONEY TO GO TO MOGUL CAMP AND LISTEN TO WORLD CUP MOGUL COACHES GOING ON AND ON ABOUT THE TECHNICAL ASPECTS OF BECOMING A REALLY GOOD BUMP SKIER? PLEASE MAN, GIVE ME A BREAK? YOU SOUND LIKE ALPINE RACER WITH THAT DISMISSIVE ATTITUDE?

? SURE THEY WERE ON THE SCRAPIER SIDE ??

I WASN?T THERE SO I DON?T REALLY KNOW WHAT KIND OF SHAPE THEY WERE IN? BUT I DO KNOW THAT THE ACTUAL SURFACE OF BEING ? SCRAPIER " WOULD NOT REALLY BE THE MAIN PROBLEM FOR THE MID TO UPPER LEVEL BUMPER THE ISSUE WAS AND IS THE SPACING THAT RESULTS (OFTEN) FROM NON SEEDED BUMPS ON TRAILS THAT ARE STEEP AND SKIED BY A LARGE NUMBER OF RECREATIONAL SKIERS WHO CAN?T TURN ON A DIME?.IE- THE FRONT FACE AT CANNON?.MY RESPONSE WAS TO A GUY WHO SAID MOGULS WERE TOUGH ON HIS KNEES?. AND THE TYPE OF MOGUL SKIING THAT MOST EASTERN RECREATIONALERS ARER FORCED TO PUT UP WITH AT PLACES LIKE CANNON, SLAMMING THEIR SKIS OFF THE FRONT FACES OF THE BUMPS FOR SPEED CONTROL BECAUSE THEY HAVE PICKED UP A HEAD OF STEAM BARRELING DOWN THE 12 FOOT BOILERPLATE GAP IN BETWEEN THE BUMPS, IS TOUGH ON THE KNEES?NOW A TRUE EXPERT COULD AND WOULD MAKE A COUPLE OF TURNS IN BETWEEN THOSE SPACED OUT BUMPS AND STRIKE THE NEXT BUMP PROPERLY, ABSORB IT PROPERLY AND EXTEND DOWN BACKSIDE PROPERLY? PROBLEM IS, THAT IS PROBABLY THE HARDEST THING ABOUT MOGUL SKIING ( AND ALL OF SKIING FOR THAT MATTER ) TO BECOME PROFICIENT AT? BUT IF YOU CAN DO IT ON A REGULAR BASIS, MR GUEST, YOU ARE A BETTER MAN THAN ME AND ABOUT 99.9 % OF THE PEOPLE SKIING OUT THERE.

? SEEDED BUMPS MIGHT BE THE CLOSEST THING TO THE DEATH OF SKIING

? :evil: THAT IS, SADLY, AN ATTITUDE DISPLAYED ALL TOO OFTEN BY ALLEGED PURISTS, OR WHATEVER IT IS YOU THINK OF YOURSELF AS WITH THAT PHILOSOPHY. FUNNY THOUGH, I WOULD GUESS YOUR ATTITUDE ABOUT ? SEEDED ? BUMP LINES AND THE EVIL INFLUENCE OF ARTIFICIAL MEANS DOES NOT CARRY OVER TO SAY, ? GROOMED ? RACING TRAILS?NOW WOULDN?T THAT BE FUNNY .. AN UNGROOMED ( UN- ARTIFICIAL :roll: ) DOWNHILL NEXT YEAR IN ITALY FOR BODE TO BATTLE HERMAN ON ? YOU OBVIOUSLY DON?T FEEL BUMP SKIING IS ON THE PLANE OF OTHER DISCIPLINES IN SKIING, MR GUEST.. AND THAT IS YOUR RIGHT , BUT IT?S HYPOCRITICAL.
? MY GUESS IS THAT MOGUL SKIERS HAVE A DISPROPORTIONATE NUMBER OF KNEE SURGERIES ??THAT MUCH MORE THAN RACERS? COME ON MAN, BE REAL?WHAT COULD YOU POSSIBLY BE BASING THAT ASSERTION ON?.YOUR FRIENDS ON THE CIRCUIT?? WHAT CIRCUIT IS THAT? THE ONLY CIRCUIT I KNOW OF IF IS THE WORLD CUP AND THE NOW DEFUNCT BUD PRO MOGUL TOUR?. AND WHO ARE THEY?.. JUST CURIOUS.
IF YOU KEEP ?ZIPPER LINING ? THE FRONT FACE BUMPS AT CANNON LIKE YOU SAY YOU ARE , ( AND I HAVE TO ASSUME YOU HAVE SOME STRAIN ON YOUR KNEES DOING SO AS YOU DISPUTE MY CONTENTION THAT GOOD BUMPS SKIERS DON?T REALLY STRAIN THEIR KNEES ), YOU WILL CERTAINLY BE A CANDIDATE FOR ? SURGERY ?.
LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING MR GUEST.. HOW THE HELL WOULD YOU BEGIN TO TEACH SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO LEARN TO SKI BUMPS.. WOULD YOU BRING EM TO CANNON AND CHUCK EM DOWN PAULIES LAP AFTER LAP AND WHEN THEY HAVE FALLEN FOR THE 500TH TIME, SAY TO THEM... " IT'S JUST PART OF LEARNING TO " READ THE RHYTHM "...
SOMETHING TELLS ME THAT IF YOU BROUGHT UP YOUR GIRLFRIEND OR WIFE OR KID OR WHOMEVER FOR THEIR FIRST TIME EVER SKIING, YOU WOULDN'T JUST CHUCK EM DOWN A GROOMED OUT FRONT FACE BLACK AT CANNON. :roll:

 

[joegm]

MARK G.. TRYING TO PM AND EMAIL YOU.. NOT GOING THROUGH... SYSTEM DOWN?

 

[riverc0il]

why is it that the bump descussions always seem to come up in the cannon thread? is any one else noticing this trend? cannon is just one of dozens and dozens of major league ski areas in new england that doesn't seed their bumps, but lets them grow natural and mows them down once or twice a season when they get too knarly.

seriously, seeding bumps and blue square bumpers i fully support and i'd love to see one seeded blue square bumper at every ski area that wants to antie up to the major league table in new england. but i think this discussion has been beat to death in 2/5 cannon reports! again, for the record before i get an all caps one paragraph reply, i am all for a seeded blue square bumper at all ski areas, including cannon despite my preference for the natural lines.

i think the point guest was driving at is this: just like there is more than one way and style and technique to turn on a groomer, there are multiple ways of turning over and around bumps. being able to adapt to slightly more difficult conditions is part of the new england ski tradition. just because the bumps are not idealy spaced does not mean people are not enjoying them! some people consider ideally spaced bumps far from ideal interestingly enough. different strokes for different folks and that's part of the beauty of the sport, that there are so many different ways to enjoy it.

regarding the knee issue, it has nothing to do with the bumps themselves but how they are being skied. whether the bumps are blue square seeded, world cup tour zipper line, fantasticly spaced uneven natural, or scraped between ugly... the skier who can adapt to conditions and ski well regardless of what the mountain throws at him will likely have the least amount of knee issues. you all know what i ski by now... my knees are generally the only part of my body that doesn't hurt at the end of a weekend.

 

[Anonymous]

regarding the knee issue, it has nothing to do with the bumps themselves but how they are being skied. whether the bumps are blue square seeded, world cup tour zipper line, fantasticly spaced uneven natural, or scraped between ugly... the skier who can adapt to conditions and ski well regardless of what the mountain throws at him will likely have the least amount of knee issues. you all know what i ski by now... my knees are generally the only part of my body that doesn't hurt at the end of a weekend.

I'ld like to know what makes you an expert on this? Is it your lack of age or experience? I get a big kick out of you kids that are heading for serious injury or death posting on the internet like you know everything about life.

 

[frenchbasher]

I doubt if their qualifications include a University degree, either. Don't expect an educated, experienced opinion on these ski boards. In fact I'ld say that many of the moderators are nothing but poorly educated censors in the Soviet model who will block any poster who posts the actual truth.

 

[JimG.]

Not sure why this is getting so ugly; reminds me of the backcountry thread about secret stashes. Silly!
There is a place for everything, but not all mountains are going to do the same things. I think seeded bumps are a good idea, at least one line on a steep expert trail for the competitive bumpers to ski and at least one on an intermediate slope for teaching bump skiing. Cannon apparently doesn't see the need to do that, and that wouldn't deter me from going there and enjoying the skiing. But if I wanted to practice or teach bump technique, it wouldn't be my first choice of areas to ski.
That's not a shot at Cannon though. I like natural trails and conditions too, and fully enjoy unseeded bump runs. It's just tougher, especially teaching, to get someone to learn good bump technique on a natural bump trail with no maintenance. Good bumping is about rhythm and fluidity...tough to teach on widely spaced ice bumps.
As for me being an uneducated communist... :roll: .

 

[joegm]

i don't think it's ugly, i think it's more a passionate ( for some ) discussion.. none of it is meant to be personal, it's just strong opinions that probably reflect some personal frustration. obviously i like to ski bumps... i started skiing them ( or trying :roll: ) to ski them about 5 years ago....i've had to put an incredible amount of effort into learning to ski them in a way that i consider correct....i know that the amount of effort i have had to put into it, most people are not going to do.... i know that if i had some decent learning terrain over the last 5 years my progression would have been so much more quicker and less painful :roll: BUMPS ARE NOT EASY TO SKI and they are even harder to ski well... i know most know that... but skiing in general isn't "easy " . that's why there is a progression of sorts... bunny slope , green, blue, black. it's not brain surgery... i get aggravated though , when i read dismissive attitudes about progressive learning in moguls... like it's some sort of heresy or easy way out ( like the stupid ass idea of the death of the soul of skiing or whatever ) .... it's the only form of skiing that has this ridculous mindset and it infuriates me....and it's like jimg states... is it really going to kill a place to set up one run, or even one half of one blue run and one half of one black, like loon has done, to seed a line or two for bumps...what the hell is the big deal?....i don't care if it's pats peak, the amount of space being taken up is not in any way going to cause any major screw up in the terrain management... what it is going to do is allow more people to access some terrain other than that has a little variety in it, other than, what becomes for many after a while, some boring flat run. not everyone can go into the park and huck their meat off some 40 foot booter or into an icy pipe....i can't even believe this has to be discussed, it's such a no - brainer.... and it's not about seeded every bump run on the hill either.. anyone who thinks that is the idea has no understanding of this.... it's about providing , in addition to natural bumps lines. the idea being the progressive learning curve. how can that possibly be considered a bad idea by anyone?
steve: it's not about cannon- i think cannon appears to get thrown under the bus more often becasue you provide frequent and detailed reports about cannon, and i just pick up on that and go with it. but believe me, it's not just all about cannon.... i would love to go cannon and ski 80% of the time. cause it's really not a bad hill and it has good access. if cannon could / would seed and maintain a couple of lines on one side of a front face black ( top to bottom, not some 200 foot line like under the triple ) and say gary's , with even a quarter of the effort as they put into maintaining their race lines and park and pipe and jumps, i would leave loon and ski there all the time. but that's me , and i am an admitted bump fanatic. and i don't expect cannon to set their policy to my whims, obviously.... but like i said above, it's not about me... the idea benefits , or would benefit, so many other recreationaler skiers.
french basher: that must be some good crack you and mr guest are smoking :roll:

 

[Patrick]

I doubt if their qualifications include a University degree, either. Don't expect an educated, experienced opinion on these ski boards. In fact I'ld say that many of the moderators are nothing but poorly educated censors in the Soviet model who will block any poster who posts the actual truth.

I have to take exception to that last remark. In fact, I believe that this board is probably one of the best around regarding educated and experienced opinions. All opinions are welcome, this site in generally civil, in the few years I have been reading this site, I have only seen and heard of one case of censorship and IT'S WASN'T BASE ON OPINION but on MANNERS. Sure, knive fly sometimes, but all opinions are respected.

Frenchbasher before making assumptions regarding this site, please get more informed. Your opinions are welcomed as all inform no BS talking comments.

As for joegm, we have disagree in the past about knees and bumps and I choose to disagree again. I am not going to start a long thread on this again. My knees have a hard time in the bumps, BUT it's do to an past injury. This said, I believe Racers have as high (if not higher) rate on knee injuries than bumpers (no source here, just I feeling). :roll:

 

[joegm]

pat, who am i to tell you that bumps are not tough on your knees... i would never do that to anyone...but that 's not what i have been saying...what i am trying to say is that there is a way to ski bumps that limits the impact on the knees.... but to do this, to ski like this, requires a certain technique... it's a technical technique that not all can do/ desire to do, and ( most importantly ) have the oportunity to learn to do... you can't learn to do this technique skiing icy spaced out rock hard black bumps... once ( and if :roll: :wink: ) you have learned the techique you can progress to those rocky , spaced out, rock hard bumps if you choose. and guess what, the technique works on those bumps too :shock: ... but if you have no terrain to practice learning the technique on, it's very unlikely one would ever become proficient at it...i don't say this to sound snooty or high and mighty, but the fact is this technique is THE proper way to ski bumps... this seems to offend people , the idea of a proper way to ski ( or bumps) , but it's just true :roll: . it's not meant disparaging anyone who doesn't or can't. my point is , skiing this proper technique limits the impact on the knees...i totally respect anyone who does not want to learn this... that's absolutely fine... but resorts and those people ought to respect those of us who do care about learning it , and provide the opportunity to do so,,,, just like they provide the oportunity to learn how to run gates, jump, and ski rails and ski trees.... when steve talks about many different ways to make turns , my opinion is he is confusing " style " with " technique "... . certainly there are many different " styles " of skiing, turning , ect, that are very individual.... bode miller's "style" is different from daron rahlves... jeremy bloom's "style" is different from janne lahtela's... their techniques vary very little though....good every day regular shmuck recreational skiers, while having differnt styles, all have the same basic rock solid technique... i will not conceed that there are many different ( proper) "techniques" to turning / skiing.... there aren't...basic ski technique is not variable.. there are absolutes... and it moves up the chain with, racing, powder skiing, moguls, whatever.... there are absolute fundamentals that are not debatable... one doesn't have to execute them, but if one doesn't, one is simply not skiing properly, in the technical sense. my whole basis of discussion is two fold: 1-when moguls are skied, technically correct, knee impact can be very limited.
2-to learn to ski this technically correct method, learning curves are a much more reasonable way to accomplish this ( ie- maintained , bumps of varying degrees of pitch )...
why someone, who admittedly enjoys the more natural bump terrain of say a place like of mad river, would not want to maximize their fun in those bumps by being able to ski em with good technique is a mystery to me :?

 

[Patrick]

what i am trying to say is that there is a way to ski bumps that limits the impact on the knees.... but to do this, to ski like this, requires a certain technique...
(...)
would not want to maximize their fun in those bumps by being able to ski em with good technique is a mystery to me :?

I agree with you joe, it's all about technique.

As for my skiing in the bumps at MRG, I still do, regardless of my knees. I just find skiing rock hard moguls all day not as fun. Hey, I was sick for a week, but still skied 6 times in 8 days (Wed, Fri, Sat, Sun, Mon and Wed). My technique might not 100% accurate, but it could definately be worst. This said, my knee (it's actual more one knee) will generally hurt more if I ski GS for a whole day.

It's true that there should be some place on a blue run that people could progress and gain experience in the bumps.