Cannon, NH: 03/01/08

[riverc0il]

*permagrin*

Cannon got a foot Wednesday and at least a foot into today and it was still snowing when I left bringing the season total to date (with over a month of potential snowfall left) to an unreal (for Cannon) 214". Untracked from mid-week combined with today's snowfall made for many knee deep, and often times deeper, lines from open to close. Powder billowing over my shoulders and exploding into my face never gets old. I didn't even bother counting the face shots. It is easy to forget the best of days earlier in the season after a month or three delay, but I think I still do them justice when saying today was my best day of the season to date.

Earlier in the week, I had already prepared for Jay on Saturday. Last night things changed. Forecasts were leaving Jay out of the storm and the big prize was SoVT through the Northern Whites lining the belt of snow up right through the notch. Cannon will not come out with the most but it will certainly be up there in totals. Last night I decided to bail on Jay and make plans for Cannon instead. Was able to meet up with some sensational skiers I have had the pleasure of sharing turns with before and make a new buddy as well, sweet. Wind hold when we got to the mountain, I was on the fence about trying for Burke or heading back down south for Tenney. Ultimately, I decided to return to Tenney but got the call that Cannon was opening, turned around, and still made the 8:30am tram (barely). Sweet!

No pictures today, but I will say this. I have looked at all of powderfreak's TR's this season, often times with some envy, but based on pictorial evidence alone of his previous outings, today would have ranked right up there with those reports from Stowe. If Cannon got 300"+ average snowfall a year, I don't think I would ski anywhere else. Snowbanks just south of the notch were so high that you could not see the north bound traffic from the south bound lane. Still another month (plus perhaps) of the snowy season to go? Bring it on.

 

[icelanticskier]

sounds like an epic day steve! i feel exactly the same way about cannon if it got more snow more consistantly, there's no other resort i'd rather ski, only negative is that as a mid-week skier it's one of the busier ones that i frequent because of all those mid-week ticket deals. other than that it's got just about everything that i desire with lifts.
tues-wed-thurs? will it snow?
rog

 

[gpetrics]

we were up there... i agree that it was a phenom of a day! bring...see port's report (or is that report's port ? ;- )

bring it on!

 

[Tony Crocker]

If Cannon got 300"+ average snowfall a year

But alas it averages about 175 with major snow preservation issues, rather similar to Baldy in both respects. And Cannon is also similar to Baldy in the high regard locals have for its terrain quality.

Baldy of course has much higher volatility of snowfall, resulting in the total wipeout seasons but probably more days with a deep base and wide open skiing with everything open.

Cannon seems to be more consistently 50-80 percent open, which implies less than adequate cover on steeper terrain. But it's nice to see the full potential realized in years like this and 2000-01.

 

[riverc0il]

Not sure what your bench mark is in regards to preservation issues, but I do not think of Cannon as having any issues in that department. I have skied closing day at Cannon (usually first or second week in April) at least twice with almost all terrain open. Cannon's issue is lack of seasonal snowfall to develop a consistent base. By the time Cannon Develops a good base, the season is mostly over. Though this season they have had a great base right through February. When Cannon was my home mountain, there were one or two years during which I was still skiing mostly groomers in February.

Cannon has reached fully open potential approximately every other year. The glades (especially Kinsman) and Tramline are the only terrain that does not historically open 100% every year (there was that snow making issue two or three years ago that kept some normal openers such as Bypass closed all year, but as many comments about Cannon this year have indicated, snow making has been step up substantially this season).

gpetrics... nice huck picture in salida's report! I don't recall seeing you guys in the trees but I am sure we were skiing similar lines/aspects. Good show.

 

[ChrisC]

alas it averages about 175 with major snow preservation issues, rather similar to Baldy in both respects.

I agree with River.

Cannon actually has really good snow preservation.

Almost all of its terrain faces due north. It altitude is among the highest for New England: 2000 - 4150. Really high base. Since it is state-run, the marketing is less prone to exaggeration. Also, the mountain is not really all that steep so you do not need tons of snow.

The negatives are: slightly lower snowfall than some VT areas. Its snowmaking coverage is fine, but its capacity is a little lower than some so it takes more time to lay its base down. But Cannon is very, very solid into the spring.

If they were truly motivated, I am sure Cannon could run its tram and open the upper Quad in October as often as Killington could.


Note Exposure. North.

 

[salida]

If they were truly motivated, I am sure Cannon could run its tram and open the upper Quad in October as often as Killington could.


Note Exposure. North.

I wrote a market study for them last year, and this was one of the recommendations. We shall see if they ever get around to it.

I don't recall seeing you guys in the trees but I am sure we were skiing similar lines/aspects. Good show.

I would have thought that. But I am pretty sure we were in a spot that most would never have thought of...

 

[Tony Crocker]

My view is that the East in general has snow preservation issues due to low altitude and rain frequency. I also get the impression that Cannon, like Jay, gets a lot of wind and thus doesn't ski well if it hasn't snowed recently.

My season progress reports have been tracking Cannon for a few years and it has rarely been more than 80pct open. My guess is the main reason is the combination of rocky terrain and not enough snowfall.

 

[ChrisC]

My view is that the East in general has snow preservation issues due to low altitude and rain frequency. I also get the impression that Cannon, like Jay, gets a lot of wind and thus doesn't ski well if it hasn't snowed recently.

My season progress reports have been tracking Cannon for a few years and it has rarely been more than 80pct open. My guess is the main reason is the combination of rocky terrain and not enough snowfall.

I thought you were comparing various Eastern resorts, because there is no question that the East is going to come up short on the snow preservation scale vs. Western counterparts.

I always thought of Cannon as semi-wind scoured mt that does not melt until spring. The glades/natural snow trails like Mid Hardscrabble seem to open as a bonus. The threshold for opening these areas seemed higher than most.

 

[Tony Crocker]

My observation is that Stowe and Sugarbush, once 100% open, rarely lose a lot of trails unless there is unusually adverse weather. Cannon and Sugarloaf rarely stay close to 100% on a consistent basis. Cannon was under 80% one week after that epic March 1. Sugarloaf is currently at 75%. Jay and Smuggs seems to be in between. They have the good Northern Vermont snowpack but more wind exposure.

You easterners who ski these areas are free to correct me if these impressions are wrong. But I don't think areas will close trails unless they have to. And it's more difficult to lie about number of open trails than about base depth, packed powder conditions, etc. So for me trying to track eastern conditions online, I place the most stock in proportion of trails open, with much allowance for what I read on FTO of course.

 

[riverc0il]

You easterners who ski these areas are free to correct me if these impressions are wrong. But I don't think areas will close trails unless they have to. And it's more difficult to lie about number of open trails than about base depth, packed powder conditions, etc.

:shock: :shock: :shock:

This is really a surprising out look given just how much we drag these types of issues around through the mud on FTO. In a year in which Stowe trail counts jumped from 48 to over 100, how do you account for percent of trails open being a key statistic? It is not consistent enough from resort to resort to be viable. More important is knowing how specific areas trend against each other. Also important is knowing which resorts will "open anything" (read: Mad River Glen, Magic, etc.) versus which resorts are really cautious (read: Cannon). Also, you have to look at type of terrain. As a percentage of open trails, Loon almost always has a higher percentage than Cannon. Because Loon doesn't have to worry about covering the rocks on Tramline. Which is why Jay falls into the middle despite having so much more snow, they have some knarly trails that are way more exposed than Stowe (which, previous to this year, could open Lower Goat and call the entire trail open even though Upper Goat gets a rope often enough... so look for more reasonable trail count percentages from Stowe going forward).

Then you can look at places without knarly terrain or glades that can report 100% open most of the year. It is hard to compare a Bolton at 100% to a Stowe or Jay at 90%. There are just so many factors that trail count is just off my radar completely. Look at Jay, often reporting 90-95% with a handful of exposed trails closed..... even while I am reporting boot deep untracked all morning. Throw that up against some of my previous reports from Magic at 100% open but boney as all get out. And of course, at least 2 out of my 5 best days this season were in December with less than half of Jay open when some resorts and areas were already close to 100%, but not skiing nearly as well.

This plays into why forums with the "no bull" conditions reporting are so important. It is hard to draw any conclusion based on numbers alone. If I went on numbers alone, I never would have bothered with Cannon on March 1st. You gotta get experienced, develop an intuition, and know when to trust your gut and when to question the numbers. Icelantic is a bit boisterous and excessive in his approach, but the best numbers to follow are the numbers that are posted that morning and the best place to ski in New England could be any place on any given day.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I know that the definition of "trail" is wildly inconsistent. But percentage (as opposed to absolute number) of trails should be reasonable, with allowance for the factors you describe. I know that 100% of Loon or Okemo is going to be boring as hell most of the time. But you guys certainly have respect for Stowe and Sugarbush, and when I see those areas in the 90+% percent range consistently, that must mean something. When I see the numbers under 80% I get suspicious, and more relevantly when Cannon or Sugarloaf show that, it's usually the most interesting terrain that's going to be closed.

There's no substitute for local knowledge, and when you guys provide it I take it into account.