Cannon, NH: 12/04/04

riverc0il

riverc0il

New member
opening day at cannon, woo!! $25 lift ticket bought access to the peabody express quad on a near blue bird day serving one open route down the mountain via big link, middle ravine, and lower ravine. could not have asked for better weather with the sun shining brightly and views extending to VT and beyond. conditions started off so-so and got better as things warmed up then got trecherous as things cooled off. little bit of everything today. met up with porter the possessed ;) and his friends during late morning who were a blast to ski with. always a pleasure porter!

death cookies were everywhere in the AM, not really too pleasant. a few inches of natural snow were to be found skiers right on middle ravine which was just awesome all day long, light and fluffy. after turnpike branches skiers left, lower ravine lost it's death cookies but the natural snow was over on skiers left which bumped up nicely as the day went on. lower ravine was your typical runout with decent pushed around snow and small bumps skiers left.

now, readers over the past two years have seen me come to the defense or races several times. but today is not one of them. FSC was terrorising the mountain with both free skiing and drills. even before the noon peak when the most people were on the mountain, i nearly got clipped twice around 9am by racers, once by a coach. i know from experience that ski racing requires reckless abandon and just barely holding on to push tha speed, but going full out on the one and only way down with recreational skiers trying to enjoy the slopes is not cool, imo.

by afternoon the sun came out and the death cookies softened up a bit, as did the rest of the snow. decent skiing during the warmer noon time hours. by 2-3ish the sun was gone, the wind picked up, and it got a lot colder. everthing was scrapped to a bone, probably the worst i have ever seen big link and ravine scraped down. if i hadn't been so tired i could have turned on this stuff, but i'm not ashamed to admit i side slipped and could not even hold an edge on some of that stuff later in the day. seriously was just aweful.

short link didn't have a rope when i saw it, okay snow in places and great coverage. turnpike didn't have a rope either, some powder and some dust on crust, really nice. guns were out in force blowing on the small closed part of lower ravine which is well covered. also middle cannon has more than adequate snow after being blown on all day, guns slowly were getting moved down middle cannon towards lower cannon as the day went on. there's enough base on all the trails visible from the quad to open up with very little snow making. my experience is that cannon opens terrain slowly, but honestly with one or two more dumps of snow and continued snow making, everything could be openable from below the HSQ.

a few quick items: first the extreme card is now the "Zoomer Card Club" :( this is bad news for die hard cannon skiers. first you gotta pay $10 to be a part of "the club" and now you only get 5 points for any lift ticket, instead of 10 previously for a weekend. this means you have to ski cannon 10 times any way possible to earn your free card in addition to paying $10 up front. not to mention lift tickets are $4 higher this year. boo. it says membership includes special offers and discounts, but doesn't say what. next up are trail changes: "Lakeview Glade" is on the map! this is the glade between zoomer lift and rocket. it is a blue square on the map, :!: :?: additionally, banshee glade has been changed to a blue square but turnpike glade is still a black diamond :?:. also of note, i believe many new trail signs have been put up on the mountain, unless i just never noticed them previously.
 
Just a quick FYI, as I have last years trail map clipped to the bullitan board right above my computer. Banshee and Lakeview were both on last years map and both blue squares. Not that any of the marked glades at cannon are much fun, although I do enjoy taking banshee back to the tram since the cutback is a rediculous traverse for snowboarders.

Sounds like this years opening day wasn't as fun as last years, which was in the middle of a snowstorm. I remember poaching rocket and being way up over my waist. Of course that was pretty much the best snow of the year at Cannon last year... Sounds like it's in decent shape this year though, hope your over on mittersil before you know it!
 
word, i wasn't aware those trail changes happened last year. that lakeside glade never opened as best i can remember, i had thought they were still clearing it out. last year i saw a many a skier/boarder duck in only to quickly bail.
 
tred, i remember that weekend last year well! some of the best snow of the year for sure! i ventured up the monday after the weekend of the storm and there were still freshies everywhere, that was the nuts.
 
just to expand a bit on river's cannon experience this past weekend... steve and i have gone at it a bit ( good naturedly for sure ) :wink: in the past on this forum about a few issues... but we have also been on the same page too... it's pretty obvious i have a bias against racers.. they are the opposite of bumpers and freestylers for sure, in pretty much every aspect of the sport, ( plus i just find a large number, NOT ALL , but a large % to be arrogant ) so i'm sure some of my comments get taken with the appropriate grains of salt by some, as they probably should....but in large part , most of the problem i have with racers is pretty much rooted in the negative experience that steve had at cannon...certainly this is not an indictment of all racers.. and conversely, it is by no means a coronation of freestlyers...there are jackasses all over for sure.... but it just seems to me, based strictly own personal experiences and observations that htere is a much larger % of racers ( in large part between the ages of 10 and 20 ) who behave and act and ski outside the lines of what is reasonable , when they are forced to be in a public setting... when a racer is on a closed/controlled race course, i could give a rat's ass 1) how fast they go and 2) how much injury they inflict upon themselves... because that's the extent of it.. they are only going to hurt themselves... Good luck, best wishes , rock the house, go get em rip it up and as that famed philosopher george costanza says " all that crap ".... but the moment that a racer, a person who is not a pure recreational skier, begins to threaten my health because of his or her reckless abandon and outright not giving a crap because he ( thinks he ) is on a higher plain that the rest of the pain in ass public, that's when there is going to be a problem...one of the reasons i love to be in the mountains sliding on the sticks is because , generally, the sport seems to attract a type of crowd that is ( relatively ) more civilized than what is often found now a days at most of the big 4 major sports....not that i am not passionate about baseball and football and college hoop, becasue i am for sure....but a lot of the stuff that goes on now at live major league sporting events seems to now too often cross over into the uncivilized ( ron artest, the indiana pacers and the nit wit fans come to mind )....not to get too far off the subject , but generally i don't head north escaping out of the urban jungle expecting to get involved in a fight...i don't know how else to say it.....i'm not trying to simplify this ... it's obvious there is in skiing 1) a sense of freesprited uninhibited movement that brings exhileration... it part of the allure for sure 2) constant motion of bodies that more often than not , are not in as good of control of their momentum as ideally one could be... i conceede these points and really i don't find them to be too big of an issue... if they were i wouldn't ski... but when someone who should know better, openly flaunts his or her obvious lack of respect for anyone other than themselves, it's abad situation that has potentially bad consequenses... i don't know which team river was dealing with at cannon, but i do know that the new hampton and holderness schools that buy time at loon, regularly ski on public slopes with a recklessness that is a disgrace... and aside from the obvious placement of blame on the little maggots that do this themselves and their coaches that allow it, i hold the hill equally responsible for allowing it... and like i've said before, i am the first one to subscribe to the scott schmidt theory that " people suing ski areas should be shot ". but when hills make no attempt whatsoever to control a situation, then yeah they oughta be called on it and they should pay if something bad happens... and what the hell do they think is gonna happen when they spin lifts for 1 or 2 trails and allow busloads of 10 to 20 year old brats to pull up and let it fly like they are on the freakin birds of prey at beaver creek... my buddy gil has a theory that when these racers are out there in situations that have been present at most places these last 2 weeks or so is that the coahes tell them to look at the public like they are gates.. that way you can practice your downhill, super g, gs and sl all in the same run :shock: ... i don't know maybe that's silly, but based on what i have seen , i'm not so quick to dismiss it :? .. again, i know i'm big on ranting to the management, but i would stronly urge anyone involved in any type of near miss to take the time and report it.. and report it to the right people.. ie the suits.. not the ski patrol, because at loon anyway, they are just the water holders for the almighty racers... i think the suits look at it like it is an evil they are willing to try and deal with because of the money involved, but based on our experiences with loon's management last year, i think it is an issue they are concerned about ... TO SOME EXTENT..... clearly not as much as they need to be.. and the only way to get any management to look at it is to let em know... not that anyone getting injured is funny at all, but , the funny thing was that on thursday at loon and their 1 open trail, 2 racers got carted off in ambulances :roll: that's all i'm gonna say,least i get accused of being a meanie :wink: ... loon on wed and thurs this week
 
i should have clarified, FSC=Franconia Ski Club. as a die hard cannon skier, i should also go on record that i have never had a problem with racers before, i think it was just an opening day with only one trail problem. it didn't bother me enough to make a complaint, just was reporting it as part of the conditions on here. it won't be a problem in a few more days once more terrain opens up, especially once the banshee area opens up where they seem to have taken to practicing and garys and rocket for racing, so FSC normally is very much seperated from the skiing public which is cool. which is why i had never noticied before.

also of note, i think there is a huge difference between various levels of racing. having finally seen a top notch mountain ski team with racers that actually are training to be future bodie millers, there is a huge difference between this level of racing vs. the levels i participated in which while competitive and very much about racing, also stressed the joy of skiing. the joke on my team was as soon as practice was finished, our race team became the freestyle team. so i think to lump all racers into one catagory is what we have often differed joegm, as i think many race teams create well rounded and respectful skiers that may be bumping with you during free ski instead of practicing ripping GS turns. but there are also those teams that are so competitive and so set on racing as a living they often loose site of the recreational nature of the skiers on the hill that support the sport.

any ways, just wanted to put in that even though i thought it to be an annoyance yesterday, it was an isolated incident with FSC and i suspect as more terrain is added i soon won't even notice FSC on the hill per usual.
 
well , like i said , steve and i have banged heads before, so this should come as no shock... i feel it is a problem.. it's magnified, clearly, with one trail being open... but there is no doubt that it is a problem, even when places are 100% open...i guess it's just whether or not one has a perception of a problem... at loon, where i ski probably 70% of the time between dec 15 and april 15, the issue is most definitely a problem with the new hampton school being the worst violators, historically...
as far as the crack about the joke being that when the racers were done with the "real skiing", they became the freestyle team, the real joke is watching racers try and ski bumps with their stiff ass stance and their feet 18 inches apart...( see page 120 of the dec issue of " skiing magazine " :lol: u said it shannon!!!!!!!
when i get yelled at by some pin head racer because i am mixing in short radius turns with medium radius turns as a drill on an open public slope and jonny fast ass is coming up from behind and has his imagined g.s line being " interupted " by me, i get a little annoyed... i get even more annoyed when jonny fast ass refuses to adjust his line and proceedes to either hit me, almost hit me or ski over my skis because he refuses to
( or maybe because he can't :roll: ) turn....that's why bump skiers are the best skiers on the hill... bumpers have to have the ability to turn absolutely whenever they want and as quickly as they want...not just when momentum and gravity and weight shifts help them to :wink:
 
reminds me of beginners in the terrain park.

everyone has the right to go anywhere on the hill and ski at thier own
ability (right?).....even if there is only one trail open. who is gonna tell
me how to ski/snowboard? nobody! tooche (or however you spell it). it
goes both ways, you see. for beginners being in places where they're
more of a nuisance, and racers racing down the one trail that is open
causing a nuisance.



if beginners are allowed in places that are above thier ability, then why do
more experianced skiers/snowboarders get yelled at when exceeding the
speed limit in "slow zones"? that's what some people call bias!


i agree with ya'll about racers racing with only one trail open. that's just
common sense.......and on a saturday (opening day)? who is this bright
idea coach advocating this proposterous behavior? speed is fun, but
there's a time and place for it. much like a time and place one should
enter a terrain park. same thing. IMO
 
Yesterday was my 5th day out and I've been dealing with the "racers doing the human slalom" thing since the start. My favorite was the group who decided a nice drill would be to have 2 skiers holding onto a 6 foot pole, each at one end doing synchronized skiing. Very cute, but talk about tying up the whole trail!

I know the problem is lack of terrain right now, but I do agree with Joe regarding the attitude of race groups and coaches; even when I was an instructor I just never "got" the race mentality. What's worse is that these are groups of pure wannabes who will most likely never move up very high on the competitive ladder. Frankly, these guys spend most of the day standing around or smoothing out snow all to make 1 or 2 runs a day.

I'd go nuts and act dangerous if I had to waste my time like that too! One of the very best reasons to seek lines outside the area boundary.
 
I understand the disire of a race coach to want to get his people out and moving to start off the season... That said however a Saturday at the beginning of the season with limited terrain open is not the time. I've seen it more than once where you get a racer ripping through the human slalom (fully under control) when the dart in front of someone and it causes that less experienced skier to eat it. The racer didn't touch them but simply got too close for the comfort level of that intermediate skier. If it were all experienced folks on the hill it would be better but take a look at the average person wedge turning down Great Northern at K or any place else right now and it is clear why it should not be done.
 
i didn't have too many problems with the racers the past few days out at whiteface. But my first day at mss there was definetly alot human slalom going on. There was a few narrow sections in the open trails and i was almost taken out a few times on one very narrow icy section. I think that these "racers" are more of a violation to that little code of conduct printed on the back of the ticket then the wedge turning beginners. The racers are obviously not skiing in control and at a reasonable speed they are responsible for not hitting the people bellow them on the trail. If a person is skiing responsibly and aware of their surroundings they should not have to worry about getting flattened by someone coming up behind them. I know at whiteface I saw the "ski fast loose pass" signs and didn't notice too many people flying down the hill out of control. I always see these signs but there never enforced. The ski patrol never seem to confront racers about their skiing habits, guess thats because the ski teams are the local and are giving the mountain a bunch of money so we wouldn't wanna piss them off and hold them to the same rules as everyone else. From my experiences north of PA this really isn't a problem any time but early season but once you get down in PA the terrains much more limited and you see it alot more. Everybody should be held to the same rules, racers or non.
 
joegm":2z6mpp8v said:
but it just seems to me, based strictly own personal experiences and observations that htere is a much larger % of racers ( in large part between the ages of 10 and 20 ) who behave and act and ski outside the lines of what is reasonable , when they are forced to be in a public setting...
Click to expand...

I think this comment (from experience) is more related to teens in a group setting. Racers are part of a club, some snowboarders are in gangs, etc. When in group, these teens are definately more aggressive and arrogant. The perception that they own the hill is definately a factor.

I will spare all the stories on the showdown in the Burke Pomas liftlines we had with kids from the Burke Ski Academy. Our University ski team had it's training camp at Burke in the late 80s and we shared the same run as the BSC. The kids didn't expected us to know to counter there moves, most of us knew all the tricks in the book in the "how to cut ahead in lines", so we were very defensive in the way we lined up for not letting them cut ahead.

This said, I saw almost twice clip (less than 2 feet) at high speed by the same bumper on the same run at Killington two weeks ago (Downdraft, East Fall). We skied the final Highline pitch at the same time, but made sure he wasn't behind me. My turns were regular, luckly I didn't change the radius of my course midway.

Ah yes, I was clip twice on Saturday by snowboarders has I waited from my daughter to get her poles on.
 
Well FSC sort of thinks they own Cannon Mountain, and to a certain extent they are allowed that much. Cannon sort of has a reputation of people bombing down icy slopes out of control, and what else would you expect from Bode Millers home mountain (until they kicked him out, that is, and he had to go up the road). Once Garys and Banshee open you'll barely notice the FSC kids anymore, except when they're bombing down the links and lower cannon to get there.

In the case of Cannon, however, I'm willing to let FSC have some reign. They mostly stay in their corner once all the terrains open. And more importantly, a lot of the FSC guys do good work keeping some trails "maintained" on mittersil, I'm thinking of one in particular. But I can definately envision your situation with only one trail open and all the local racers (and theres plenty of them in Franconia) trying to get in their fix on the first day of the season. I'd be pissed too. I've never been a ski racer, but they've never bothered me enough to give them much shit. Except for those racing suits, that is. Ewww.

p.s. hopefully they cleared that glade between rocket and zoomer out more, because it was never good. but it was on the map as lakeview glade.
 
Great report, sorry I blew it off Saturday and missed you guys. I waited for the "crowds" at Cannon to dissipate, and I didn't ski until Sunday.

As river wrote,
"Lakeview Glade" is on the map!
Click to expand...
That was known as "Sprocket" by those who skied it before it was ever added to the map. When a mountain takes over an unofficial line used by locals, they ought to ask what it's called. But then Cannon does sacreligious stuff like renaming the old "Peabody" lodge (named after founder Roland Peabody) to "Notchview Lodge", or some such nonsense. It will forever be known as the 'old Peabody Lodge', as far as I'm concerned.

Another correction for the mapmaker: it's probably an old mistake that I hadn't noticed until this year, but the word "Ravine" labeling "Lower Ravine" is actually on the old Peabody Lift Line. Not sure what it's offical name was, we looked it up last weekend, only to find misinformation on the map. Check out the on-line map at the redesigned website: http://www.cannonmt.com/02_trail.php

Which leads to the observation I made Sunday that Cannon buffed all the liftlines over the summer. A ski patroller mentioned it to me this Fall, but I didn't undestand what he was talking about. It sure looks like they actually intend to open them. So much for the Sno-E plan in 1995 to eliminate all ways to crossover from one trail to another (anyone else notice that slowly all those fences have been coming down?).

BTW, had my best lift-served turns on the short section of the old Hong Kong liftline, between Middle Ravine and Cannon, and I didn't even duck rope to do it.

I talked with FSC's head coach about being blown off the trail by 200 FSC kids race training on the only open trail. He assures me there's only 104, not counting Holderness kids. Actually, most of Sunday they were on the sides of the trail doing drills.

You've got to understand that these kids love skiing as much as you or me. They've been confined to one trail at Bretton Woods for three weeks. They are so happy to be on their home hill at Cannon! Thank God BW opened 3 weeks before Cannon, but it's boring terrain. I'm no racer, but I was carving some turns at high speed down Middle Ravine myself on Sunday.

The human slalom is a drag, and more than once as I slowed down to safely avoid some infrequent skier on straight skis, I had an FSC or Holderness skier blow by between me and the slowpoke. No, it's not safe, but give the kids a break. Doesn't it suck getting old? A few years ago, these kids or their parents were whining about you and me (and maybe still are...).

Finally, my apologies to Porter, who I emailed Friday about the lack of snow on the summit. I was told early Sunday by way2ski that "it's not worth it", after they had made the hike. In spite of his advice, I made the hike late Sunday, and found anywhere between 0" and 8" of snow, some hard windslab, some dry powder. If you chose your line carefully, and can ski a narrow line, it was great. Almost without exception, every trail was blown bare in the middle, but had coverage on the edges. I had the best turns of the day on Taft and Upper Hardscrabble, and didn't hit a rock until I stupidly approached too close to my car parked off Brookside.

They had 31 guns blowing on Middle and Lower Cannon Sunday, and were starting more guns on Brookside when I left at 3:30. They should have piled up some big whales in last night's cold. Unless tonight's storm changes over to heavy tropical rain, they should have the second main route down from the Peabody Quad, and the Brookside bunny slope, open by next Saturday.

Think snow....
 
Lftgly":1lws9adx said:
The human slalom is a drag, and more than once as I slowed down to safely avoid some infrequent skier on straight skis, I had an FSC or Holderness skier blow by between me and the slowpoke. No, it's not safe, but give the kids a break. Doesn't it suck getting old? A few years ago, these kids or their parents were whining about you and me (and maybe still are...)
Click to expand...

You make an excellent point. When I really think about it, it isn't the kids who I have a beef with, it's the coaches who choose (what I consider) inappropriate drills for the amount of open terrain available. I don't care about groups off to the side doing drills, and I don't mind the kids whizzing around at warp speed because as you mention, I'm pretty much keeping up with them going as fast as possible myself.

However, choosing a drill that involves a 6 foot long pole and putting a skier on each end of it and telling them to do synchronized skiing drills side by side on a 12-18 foot wide trail is just plain stupid.
 
lftgly, just to verify... you heard that the old lift lines or current lift lines were cleared out? would be nice to see those old one's officially opened, they are nice. but i don't know how they could open them officially without widening them :( judging from your description of your sunday experience, i'd say you missed out on the better goods saturday :P i also noticed the lower ravine snafu on the trail map. i think that old lift line area is now lower ravine and where lower ravine used to be is turnpike? or is there just an un-named connector between lower ravine and turnpike? at least that's what the map suggests to my eyes. wouldn't be the first time a cannon map seemed a little strange! i miss the one from about 4-5 years ago... i liked the design and trail name fonts a lot better.

any one else hitting up demo day on friday at cannon?
 
lftgly, u have got to be kidding me :evil: ....let's pick apart a few of the more silly statements you made....1) "the kids love skiing as much as you or me"... yeah , so, what's your point? because they love skiing as much as other "non-program" skiers , the fact that they are in a program gives them the right to ski recklessly? 2) " but it's boring terrain " hmmm, it's boring terrain but yet they still love skiing as much as the rest of us "old" folks who are just happy to just be sliding with access to spinning lifts, whether it's one trail or 100....3) "the human sl is a drag" .. no it's not...actually it's a potentially dangerous situation... it's a little more serious then a drag... but's i guess that's the old fart in me 4) " to avoid some infrequent skier on straight skis " - u may not be a racer, but that's a racer'esque comment....as in anyone without the newest scam triple x screamer, fat boy, hype super duper carve X skis with a 30 mm rise plate and intergated binding set up, is basically a pretender....my head mad trix moguls are 89-60-80...they are built for fast quick turns... but they don't turn themsleves.. they turn when i turn them... i skied 65 days last year... infrequent :? ... not everyone has bought into the scam that the shops perpetuate when they tell you " this ski will turn itself "... those who are in the know , know that it's the skier , not the ski, that makes it turn...rergardless of whether the turn radius is 12 yards or 40 yards 5) "blow by me and the slowpoke".... i have a feeling you would put me in the slow poke category... when i have one boring trail to ski, i take the approach of actually trying to get something done and improve my skiing.. that means i turn.. i turn as much as i can, as quickly as i can... i try to make myself a better skier :shock: :shock: :shock: i try and turn when i am moving forward and i try and turn when i am barely moving forward... ever try and turn when you are barely moving? it's not easy.. but it can be done... if u are good.. of course making all those turns takes some effort sometimes, especially from us " old guys" :roll: ... and again that arrogant racer mentality of " if u ain't going fast, you are nothing" is what i hear in your post ....that's a joke... anyone can make turns going fast.. the real test is making em going slow.... as a poke :roll: 6) "doesn't it suck getting old"... my friends and i, who are all in our 30's, ski bumps pretty much all day long.. and if we have no bumps to ski, we make mogul turns on the flats all day long... i would guess we make probably 40 times as many turns as the average racer, we see " practicing " ... not bad for old guy's... i see the racers all running for cover when there is more than 6 inches of snow on the ground... too much effort needed? :wink: 7) "give the kids a break"....the next time i get hit by a racer ( who should know better ) skiing in a manner that is reckless, there will be some breaks alright... like my ski pole breaking over their head :wink: ( just kiddin....i think :wink: ) (and maybe still are...).
 
hamdog":un7g0rq0 said:
reminds me of beginners in the terrain park.

everyone has the right to go anywhere on the hill and ski at thier own
ability (right?).....
Click to expand...

Wrong. Know the code. Too many people don't, which is part of why I hit the woods as soon as they have enough snow, and don't come out until there's no snow left in them.

Trees generally don't take you out from behind.
 
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