Conditions around Manchester?

[johnnash]

We're pretty desperate to get in some skiing this weekend, and with the big meltdown around DC, I was looking at the possibility of going north. (For such a short trip, the west just isn't an option.) We can get a cheap non-stop flight to Manchester NH at times that would allow us to get in basically 2 full days skiing if we do it at a nearby resort (ie, not much more than an hour's drive from the airport). From the maps I've seen, I guess that probably means Sunapee or Pat's Peak.

Looking at the recent weather history, though, I wonder what the surface conditions will be like. I also wonder if this weekend they''re likely to have long lift lines (ie, more than 10 minutes), this being Prez Day. Any locals have quick words of advice?

Thanks much!

 

[Patrick]

We're pretty desperate to get in some skiing this weekend, and with the big meltdown around DC.

Not only in DC, we lost since last Saturday 33cm of snow (17cm yesterday). Everything is frozen solid now, 33cm on solid icepack.

Next weekend will be THE weekend, however the fact that you might be flying might be an issue (hope, it's is anyway - sorry. No friend on a ...)(anti-jinx).

 

[Tony Crocker]

You need to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em. From everything I'm reading, this is one of the fold 'em weekends for the East. I can't conceive that it could possibly be worth paying airfare for it.

(For such a short trip, the west just isn't an option.)

If you're actually considering flying, I would definitely disagree.

 

[johnnash]

From everything I'm reading, this is one of the fold 'em weekends for the East. I can't conceive that it could possibly be worth paying airfare for it.

Yes, after seeing Patrick's description of surface conditions, if I flew to NH to ski on a block of ice, I would have to characterize myself as not just desperate, but desperately in need of psychiatric treatment. Maybe this will be my annual weekend of solidarity with the riding community, when I pull out the snowboard, go to one of the local mountains, and do a run or two on the bunny slope. Conditions really don't matter much for that. ](*,)

If you're actually considering flying, I would definitely disagree.

We did a weekend trip to Copper last year, and I don't think we'll try that again, at least not with a kid in school. The problem is the timing. To get in that last day of skiing, you've gotta take a late flight out, which with the 2-hour time change, means you're not in bed until early the next morning. Not to mention that the flights cost a lot more, esp on Prez Day.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Presumably flights to any destination cost more on short notice for President's weekend. I've done SLC in both 2007 and 2008 and had no problems. Given what we read about I-70 I'd be leery of trying Denver for a peak holiday weekend.

For future reference, if someone was going to get in an airplane to ski in New England, why on earth would they fly to Manchester instead of Burlington?

 

[Geoff]

For future reference, if someone was going to get in an airplane to ski in New England, why on earth would they fly to Manchester instead of Burlington?

...because Southwest flies there. Burlington, VT is only economical if you happen to have access to a JetBlue city. You also have to connect at JFK which ain't always the most pleasant experience.

I agree with the general comment... if I'm in metro-DC, I'd have the BWI flight schedules memorized and I'd be jumping on every fare sale going west. I just took a quick glance. If you fly midweek out of BWI, ABQ has non-stop $89 flights, you can get to SLC for $99. $250-ish airfare to ski real snow with comparable overall door-to-door travel time. The only bad thing about the Southwest flight schedule is that they don't have late-afternoon nonstops that land in BWI around midnight. Flying Delta out of Boston to SLC, I always try to take that last flight back east so I can ski all day and still be in my bed that night.

 

[Admin]

Flying Delta out of Boston to SLC, I always try to take that last flight back east so I can ski all day and still be in my bed that night.

For those from the NYC metro area, Delta, Continental and JetBlue all have red-eyes that depart SLC 11pm-midnight and arrive early a.m. at JFK (JetBlue and Delta) and Newark (Continental). Lots of my visitors like to take those flights because they can ski a full day, pack at a relaxing pace, take a shower, have a nice dinner and still catch a plane that night. Sleep on the plane and go back to work in the a.m.

In the other direction, the same airlines have an early a.m. departure from NYC that puts them in SLC around 10:30. Unlike Denver, with the resorts so close to the city they can be skiing by noon at a choice of 10 resorts.

 

[rfarren]

For those from the NYC metro area, Delta, Continental and JetBlue all have red-eyes that depart SLC 11pm-midnight and arrive early a.m. at JFK (JetBlue and Delta) and Newark (Continental). Lots of my visitors like to take those flights because they can ski a full day, pack at a relaxing pace, take a shower, have a nice dinner and still catch a plane that night. Sleep on the plane and go back to work in the a.m.

In the other direction, the same airlines have an early a.m. departure from NYC that puts them in SLC around 10:30. Unlike Denver, with the resorts so close to the city they can be skiing by noon at a choice of 10 resorts.

I always take the delta to first out in the morning to slc, and the red-eye at night coming back to jfk. It allows me a full day of skiing the last day, and a half day on the way over. The early morning to denver gets you in at 9:30 so conceivably you could make it to the front end resorts by noon.

 

[Admin]

The early morning to denver gets you in at 9:30 so conceivably you could make it to the front end resorts by noon.

Yeah, after a few hours of driving. Ugh.

 

[rfarren]

The early morning to denver gets you in at 9:30 so conceivably you could make it to the front end resorts by noon.

Yeah, after a few hours of driving. Ugh.

That is true, you can't beat slc for convenience.

 

[Tony Crocker]

The early morning to Denver gets you in at 9:30 so conceivably you could make it to the front end resorts by noon.

Loveland or A-Basin would be fairly palatable on that schedule, though still not as convenient as SLC.

There seems to be implicit agreement that the Northeast is not a particularly sensible ski destination if you have to get on an airplane.

 

[Geoff]

The early morning to Denver gets you in at 9:30 so conceivably you could make it to the front end resorts by noon.

Loveland or A-Basin would be fairly palatable on that schedule, though still not as convenient as SLC.

There seems to be implicit agreement that the Northeast is not a particularly sensible ski destination if you have to get on an airplane.

As a former BOS->DEN road warrior, noon is unlikely if you are checking gear. The rental cars require a shuttle bus. The airport is just about in Kansas.

The Northeast in April is usually really reliable.

 

[Tony Crocker]

The Northeast in April is usually really reliable.

We have :dead horse: before but this is a ludicrous statement.

re·li·a·ble ......
2. Yielding the same or compatible results in different clinical experiments or statistical trials.

You have absolutely no clue, on almost a day-to-day basis, what you are going to get in terms of April ski conditions in the East. Rain probability is going through the roof. Mt. Mansfield at 3,900 feet averages 4 1/2 days of rain in April. Isothermic slush is the most likely snow condition on lift-served trails, and you're lucky if trail counts aren't down appreciably from mid-March. Many years (as I demonstrated in the GPaul thread a couple of years ago) the end-of-season meltdown is in full force by April. Flying into the Northeast for skiing is always a crapshoot. In April the odds are decidedly against you.

As usual people have short memories and the past 2 Aprils in the East were 1) Pretty much best ever and 2) Well above average from the deep snowpack of a very strong (80+ percentile) overall season. And even those years you got the rain if you picked the wrong week.

 

[Patrick]

The early morning to Denver gets you in at 9:30 so conceivably you could make it to the front end resorts by noon.

Loveland or A-Basin would be fairly palatable on that schedule, though still not as convenient as SLC.

It depends where you're flying from. I don't think there are any direct flight between YYZ and SLC. I know there used to be a SLC-DET-YOW (Ottawa) NWA flight, but connection weren't necessarily convenient. Air Canada flight directly into Denver, so if you leave in the am from Ottawa, you can get to DEN at 10:30am. So once you get your car rental you make hit the slopes at Loveland for noon....unless of course you land on the first day of a World Series game in Denver. :roll: ...and wait 45 minutes to get your car. #-o Drove by Loveland at noon, but continued to eat lunch Vail. Did a short drive to Aspen and back to sleep at Keystone instead of skiing that first day. :mrgreen:

It would have possible to ski 4 days in October 2007 which included same day the travel days. That was soooo easy. Toronto-Denver is real short flight too.

Many years (as I demonstrated in the GPaul thread a couple of years ago) the end-of-season meltdown is in full force by April. Flying into the Northeast for skiing is always a crapshoot. In April the odds are decidedly against you.

Yeah and GPaul missed some incredible skiing. It's one thing to uniquely based yourself on the numbers, but a few of us have years of experience skiing the Spring in the East to back it up. :dead horse:

 

[Tony Crocker]

a few of us have years of experience skiing the Spring in the East to back it up.

Since you live there, you can choose to ski on the occasions when it's good and take a pass during the rain and meltdowns.

Again, put yourself in Chicago or Dallas with a free air ticket in April and you would be nuts to use that ticket to ski in the Northeast.

 

[Geoff]

The Northeast in April is usually really reliable.

We have :dead horse: before but this is a ludicrous statement.

re·li·a·ble ......
2. Yielding the same or compatible results in different clinical experiments or statistical trials.

You have absolutely no clue, on almost a day-to-day basis, what you are going to get in terms of April ski conditions in the East. Rain probability is going through the roof. Mt. Mansfield at 3,900 feet averages 4 1/2 days of rain in April. Isothermic slush is the most likely snow condition on lift-served trails, and you're lucky if trail counts aren't down appreciably from mid-March. Many years (as I demonstrated in the GPaul thread a couple of years ago) the end-of-season meltdown is in full force by April. Flying into the Northeast for skiing is always a crapshoot. In April the odds are decidedly against you.

As usual people have short memories and the past 2 Aprils in the East were 1) Pretty much best ever and 2) Well above average from the deep snowpack of a very strong (80+ percentile) overall season. And even those years you got the rain if you picked the wrong week.

Tony, you don't have a freakin' clue. We ski on manmade snowpack. In April, that means sunny days with great corn snow. 4 1/2 days of rain means 25 bluebird sunny & warm days where you are skiing in sunglasses and a long sleeve shirt. Beach days. Tailgate parties. Everybody has a tan and a smile. Isothermic slush my ass. Trail counts are down because the resorts contract due the dramatic falloff in skier visits. At any north-facing ski resort with snowmaking, you typically have edge-to-edge cover halfway into April and there's plenty of terrain to be had deeper into the season since the expert terrain gets so much snow blown on it. Take your California actuarial drivel and keep it west of the Mississippi where it belongs. April friggin' rules in New England.

 

[rfarren]

4 1/2 days of rain means 25 bluebird sunny & warm days where you are skiing in sunglasses and a long sleeve shirt. Beach days. Tailgate parties. Everybody has a tan and a smile. Isothermic slush my ass. Trail counts are down because the resorts contract due the dramatic falloff in skier visits. At any north-facing ski resort with snowmaking, you typically have edge-to-edge cover halfway into April and there's plenty of terrain to be had deeper into the season since the expert terrain gets so much snow blown on it.

This is true. All of my experiences are that the best ski days in the east happen after march 15th. I've gone skiing almost every weekend around my birthday...april 13th, and can hardly remember a weekend where the skiing wasn't awesome. The snow is soft, the sun is out, and the trails are empty! Tailgating, is great, and you don't have to worry about freezing your a** off on the lift. The one caveat to this is you have to go north. Don't expect to ski hunter or stratton in mid april. Once you get up to gore though, you're in the clear. I wouldn't expect to ski the trees by that point as often, the base disappears in there, however, the trails are generally speaking very beefy, with only the lowest elevations showing dirt.

 

[Tony Crocker]

...The one-eyed man is king. The praises being sung of the East in spring are a veiled commentary on how erratic and sometimes masochistic it is during the winter.

you don't have to worry about freezing your a** off on the lift.

Some of you need to visit Mammoth or Mt. Bachelor in April sometime to put some of this in perspective.

I skied Killington on April 29 and was not impressed. The trails that were open were the ones that still had snow. Mogul skiing was good, so I DO understand joegm's view, but groomers were like glue. It made me understand why there were 2,000 people in Tucks the day before.

Take your California actuarial drivel and keep it west of the Mississippi where it belongs.

Sorry, nothing actuarial about it. I've been skiing Mammoth regularly May and later since 1978. I know great spring skiing, and Killington (1990, pre-ASC when it ran as long as possible) was not it.

 

[Geoff]

Take your California actuarial drivel and keep it west of the Mississippi where it belongs.

Sorry, nothing actuarial about it. I've been skiing Mammoth regularly May and later since 1978. I know great spring skiing, and Killington (1990, pre-ASC when it ran as long as possible) was not it.

So you are basing your statistical analysis on one data point. You may have a correlation factor of "1" but that doesn't mean your analysis is accurate. April in the northern half of northern New England rulez dude. Most years, you get at least 20 amazing ski days in the month.

I'm wondering... on your 1990 April 29th visit to Killington, did you happen to ski Outer Limits? East facing. Glorious unskied corn snow. You have to arrange transportation back to the lift-serviced. Did you happen to walk the 5 minutes up Killink to ski Northstar and Great Bear? Again, glorious unskied corn snow most years though April 29th might have you following the ribbon in a few spots since those are both natural snow trails. That's where you'll find me the 2nd half of April. When the place shrinks down to just the Superstar quad, it's a modest walk up Launch Pad to get to perfect corn on Cascade and Double Dipper. That's where you'll find me after the other stuff melts out. ...unless I'm drinking cocktails, grilling, and working on my tan with friends in the parking lot.

 

[Patrick]

I've been skiing Mammoth regularly May and later since 1978. I know great spring skiing, and Killington (1990, pre-ASC when it ran as long as possible) was not it.

Geoff is right on on this topic. I cannot speak specifically of that April 29th 1990, but skiing at Kmart, Bush, Tremblant and Ste-Anne (and many others) totally rule in April. Great skiing for sure...