Dec. 18-25 near NYC for never-ever family? Advice PLS?

G

Gpaul

New member
Well, I'm stuck (but really enjoying it) with planning a week for 2 adults and their 4 girls (aged from 9-17). They've never seen snow, let alone ski! They want to learn how to ski, and do as many other winter resort activities (tubing, sledding, fireplaces, etc.) They land in New York and will drive to whichever resort we single out.

I've eliminated VT,ME, and NH beacuse the drives may be too long, and I don't want to overwhelm them with a "big" mountain.

Narrowed it down to Seven Springs or Camelback in PA, Windham in NY (Hunter may be too scary crowd-wise).

My humble opinion is that Seven Springs will be big enough both mountain and resort-wise for 6-7 days, more so than Camelback or Windham.

Now, you experts´s opinions, PLS.

Gracias! :D
 
Seven Springs is at the other end of Pennsylvania, much further from NYC than Vermont resorts. Rule that one out.

Camelback can make Hunter look deserted sometimes. Rule that one out.

Windham? Uh, yeah...but southern Vermont places like Mt. Snow, Bromley and Stratton really aren't that much further -- you have to go clear up the Hudson nearly to Albany before you can cut over on 23 to Windham. Mt. Snow is about 75 minutes past Albany. Make that 90 to Stratton and Bromley.

If you're intent on staying that marginal amount closer to NYC, I'd head to the Berkshires instead. Butternut has an element of charm to it, and is an easy hill by and large. You also have Catamount (on the NY/MA border) and Mohawk Mountain (CT) nearby to mix things up a bit, and they could stay at an inn in Great Barrington or Lennox and get the whole New England winter thing. Except for one element, that is:

Snow.

Chances are surprisingly good that the ground will be bare or close to it around Christmas in the Berkshires or Catskills. These folks need to see snow somewhere other than on a ski trail that came out of a machine. Again, I'd head for SoVT for the whole experience. It's worth the extra hour-plus to get there IMO.
 
For beginers I am pretty high on Belleayre. Belleayre is less crowded than Hunter and is a great family place. That said , i wouldn't want to spend more than a day or 2 there.
Listen to the Admin.. Go to Southern Vermont. Okemo , Mt Snow both great choices and the ride is easy..
 
Okemo certainly has the reputation for this kind of request. Top of the line snowmaking and grooming, which is what you need that early in the East.
 
Definitely eliminate the PA areas for the reasons stated above. If you don't want to go as far as VT, I second the Belleayre nomination - I like their beginner area better than Windham as it is totally segregated from higher level skiers on the mountain. And you could still try Windham or Hunter (especially midweek - they also have very good beginner terrain, again separate from the higher level skiers) for a day.
 
jasoncapecod":3e7p8zwo said:
For beginers I am pretty high on Belleayre....Listen to the Admin.. Go to Southern Vermont. Okemo , Mt Snow both great choices and the ride is easy..
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As a M.A.S.H. skier, I was completely baffled that anyone would plan a Christmas trip to Seven Springs in December and was trying how to tactfully suggest other alternatives. Marc (Amin) and others have kindly provided the better options.

It is true that 7-springs is often open in Dec, but I cannot recommend making long range plans involving 7-springs for Dec/Jan. For dependable snow coverage, Seven Springs is best left for mid to late January. For many years around Christmas we used to pack skis for use at 7-springs during our return drive from visiting relatives in the mid-west. But around 1990 we stopped hauling them because 7-springs was scarcely open or completely closed more the half the time around New Years Day. Even when Seven Springs is completely open in early December, the snow can melt off in a mid-Dec warm spell--as it did around 1989 or '90 when western PA got 45+" over Dec 9-10 and then melted off completely over the next 10 days. (We skied a great powder day at Blue Knob though.)

We haven't used the 7-springs ski school for over a decade, but friends who have were satisfied with their instructors.

Okemo will likely offer the best surface of any Eastern resort during Christmas. They blow lots of snow and aggressively groom. Grooming in the east is particularly important due the possibility of a rapid thaw-then-freeze cycle. I have seen Okemo remediate frozen rain-on-snow bulletproof ice slopes into a workable surface overnight. Going to an area with that sort of capability is a good insurance policy for your trip.

I wonder if anyone here can comment on the suitability of Mount Sunapee, NH for a first-timer's ski venture during December. I believe that this area is now owned by the Okemo parent company which suggests that this area might also have a dependable Dec surface. I believe that it is fairly mellow too--but I don't know for certain as I have never skied Sunapee.

My past experience running a ski club causes me to recommend planning for two other issues for never-evers : lessons and adequate clothing. Some areas offer lesson programs that span several days or will tailor one for your group. I highly recommend daily lessons for never-evers. Too often, new skiers take one lesson (good) and then try to figure the rest out without instruction (bad & likely frustrating). Secondly, for numerous reasons new skiers seem to have more problems with being cold and this can make never-skiers give up the sport before they start. But glib answers about clothing are difficult to formulate and so I leave further comment for another topic area.

Cheers,
Jeff
 
look'n4powder":16bjkcw7 said:
I was completely baffled that anyone would plan a Christmas trip to Seven Springs in December and was trying how to tactfully suggest other alternatives. Marc (Amin) and others have kindly provided the better options.
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To be fair to GPaul, my understanding is that he will be in New York around Christmas and would like to get some skiing done at that time. Needless to say, perceptions that Pennsylvania skiing is much closer than Vermont might be affected his comments.

Not being from that part of the continent, I also didn't really have a clue where Seven Spring was located.
 
I'd second the nomination for southern Vermont. It's a bit farther than the Catskills and Bershires, but the mountains are bigger and they're more likely to have good snow coverage. Beginners -- especially never-evers -- will have a much better chance at remembering the whole experience fondly if there's plenty of snow around. One other thing to consider is that there are probably not much, if any, accommodations close to Belleayre or the Berkshire resorts, but there are lots of choices around Okemo, Stratton, Mount Snow. These southern Vermont resorts do a brisk business with people from the New York metro area, and that includes lots of beginners, so they know how to treat them. New folks won't be intimidated, and these are generally first-class operations. I'm no fan of Mount Snow -- I think its lift ticket walk-up prices are far too high for the challenge and space available for advanced skiers, but if you work it you can probably get a significant discount with a lodging package -- but the place is good for people new to the sport. It's fairly well set-up for beginners, with some lifts serving only green and blue runs, a good learning area, and lots of other people who lack skiing experience -- a drawback for some of us on this site but a good thing in your situation. Plus, it's pretty easy to get to. The Catskills and Berkshire resorts may be closer as the crow flies, but Mount Snow isn't far off the interstate and is reachable by a fairly major and easy two-lane road. Belleayre, while a nice mountain, is in the middle of nowhere, since it's surrounded by the Catskill preserve.
In any case, good luck, and enjoy it!
Under any circumstances, avoid Pennsylvania at all costs.
 
First comment:
The week leading up to Christmas is rarely crowded at any ski area. People are quite busy doing other things. Shopping. Christmas parties. Family gatherings. All mountains are running their snowmaking systems 24x7 to get as much open as possible for December 26th when all the people start arriving.

Second comment:
You are at a ski resort for a week. At least pick one that is big enough or at least is close enough to a full-service town that you have ample non-skiing options. Never-never skiers rarely ski all day.

Third comment:
All ski resorts I've ever seen are competent at teaching first-time skiers.

Fourth comment:
Southern Vermont is only four-ish hours from NYC. You're going for a week. That's not all that big a drive.

Stratton & Bromley are near Manchester, Vermont. You could use that as your base. It's about 4 hours from NYC. Okemo/Ludlow are another option but Ludlow is not as nice a town as Manchester. It's also a somewhat longer drive.
 
Patrick":33u9z4fv said:
look'n4powder":33u9z4fv said:
I was completely baffled that anyone would plan a Christmas trip to Seven Springs in December and was trying how to tactfully suggest other alternatives. Marc (Amin) and others have kindly provided the better options.
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To be fair to GPaul, my understanding is that he will be in New York around Christmas and would like to get some skiing done at that time....
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Probably everyone on this board is an opportunistic skier, so I think that we all understand the desire to grab every possible opportunity to ski. I have the highest respect for such aspirations and for those who pursue them.

So I would hope that my comments are not taken poorly or as overly critical--my "bafflement" is not the choice of 7-springs, which I would consider a good choice for mid/late-Jan--but I just cannot confidently recommend it for Dec. I believe that S. VT is more likely to have decent snow then.

To give 7-springs its proper due, the area management has installed a very good snow making system and knows how to use it effectively. So their coverage is dictated by night time temperature and not natural snowfall.

Like everyone here, I'm also looking for early season opportunities. I've skied more first tracks in VT (ie, Kmart) than in PA or WVa. My post was formed by these experiences.

Cheers,
Jeff
 
look'n4powder":17m2xlya said:
So I would hope that my comments are not taken poorly or as overly critical--my "bafflement" is not the choice of 7-springs, which I would consider a good choice for mid/late-Jan--but I just cannot confidently recommend it for Dec.
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Not at all, I might be mistaken, but I got the impression that he thought that 7-Springs was much closer to New York than it is.

As for me, ski areas in that corner of the country aren't even on my radar screen.
 
Well, the gang comes through again! Many, many thanks for such enlightening replies.

No, I'm not going on this trip, just planning it for newbies.

So, based on the suggestions herein, I NOW CHOOSE BETWEEN THE FOLLOWING:

MT. SNOW
OKEMO
STRATTON
and KTON????

So, for picturesque "winter in N. Engalnd and other things to do besides skiing", which one?

Gracias!
 
last year we spent Christmas week at the Grand Summit Lodge at Mt Snow. We had a great time. Great hotel with nice outside pool and hot tubs.. They also have snow tubing on the property.
Every March we go to Okemo we stay at the Jackson Gore lodge. Same type of hotel as the Grand Summit. I forgot to mention both are ski in ski out, which is real nice.
Forget Killington.. Killington has as much charm as a piece of steel.
 
Just had a looksee at trail maps for Okemo, Bromley, Mt. Snow, and Stratton.

It seems Bromley's learning and beginner areas are the most segregated of all, thus making it much "tamer" for newbies. I know how scary it can be for never-evers, and crowds just add to that fear. So, am I correct in assuming Bromley may be just the place? Of course, assuming snow....

If so, are there "quaint and big-enough" towns nearby for some sightseeing?

Of course, Stowe is THE place for ALL the things they should experience, just don't know if they want to drive another 2 hrs. more. I'll try to convince them on Stowe, especially if they fall for bragging rights!
 
The closest town to Bromley is Manchester... Quaint, well back in the day.. Now it is a big outlet center.. Bromley is more of a day area . It also faces dead south so if it is cold, Bromley tends to be a bit warmer.
Manchester gives you the option of skiing both Bromley and Stratton.
May the Snow Gods be with you and have a great time.
 
Thanks again y'all!

Final question: We are agreed on VT being the best for snow, "winter experience", and quality of resorts. BUT, just in case, Catskills vs. Poconos, which one for quaintness and other things to do besides learning to ski? And, exactly which mountain in each area for complete winter experience, and ease of learning?
 
Gpaul":qtdmcm2y said:
It seems Bromley's learning and beginner areas are the most segregated of all, thus making it much "tamer" for newbies. I know how scary it can be for never-evers, and crowds just add to that fear. So, am I correct in assuming Bromley may be just the place? Of course, assuming snow....
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i have generally held that bromley is one of the best mountains in southern VT for learners, newbs, and beginners. the seperate area is nice, but just as important is a top to bottom green circle trail serviced by a high speed quad. the blue squares should be managable even for first timers after a few lessons buy the end of the trip. bromley also has a completely segregated expert section that has some fun runs. my only concerns for you is the mountain is small for a full week stay and also, due to its southern face, i assume they have a harder time getting the snow making ball rolling than say stratton or mount snow. i am unsure how much terrain is historically open by december 18 at bromley, perhaps someone else can speak to that?
 
i assume they have a harder time getting the snow making ball rolling than say stratton or mount snow. i am unsure how much terrain is historically open by december 18 at bromley, perhaps someone else can speak to that?
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Acually they have a higher base elevation than Stratton and Mt Snow. Their only problem is that they face south. In early Dec that shouldn't be a problem.
Gpaul.. Just say no to the Poconos.. I try to ski Hunter and the other Catskill areas every weekend or so and there is nothing Quaint about any of those areas
Instead of flying into NYC , why not Boston. You will cut an hour off your drive to Vermont.
have generally held that bromley is one of the best mountains in southern VT for learners, newbs, and beginners. the seperate area is nice, but just as important is a top to bottom green circle trail serviced by a high speed quad.
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River's right on point with this
 
Instead of flying into NYC , why not Boston. You will cut an hour off your drive to Vermont.
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this is a good point. any specific reason why you are flying into NYC specifically if you are considering skiing? an even better alternative is manchester, NH which would put you within 2-2.5 hours of northern VT and changes the tables completely. burlington flights are more limited but that would put you right in the heart of northern VT. the biggest concern for mid-december trip planning is snow coverage, and opting for northern VT would be added security if you can fly into closer airports. bush, smuggs, bolton, and stowe are all rather accessable from manchester or burlington.
 
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