Deer Valley, UT 1/18/09

[Admin]

The village of Chamonix looks nice from photos though and I'm sure there are many more.

Even some of the purpose-built French ones are quite charming. Courchevel 1850, for example, is downright gorgeous...but with all of that money floating around (it's the Deer Valley of Europe, and is over-run with Russian oligarchs) it should be.

Here's a photo I took during my 2003 visit:

The next valley over in the Trois Vallees, Méribel, is positively hideous. The next valley beyond, Val Thorens, isn't much better:

(Again, from my 2003 visit)

 

[Harvey]

That's just sad, yet typically northeastern.

It's odd to me that when people see a "different culture" they tend to say...oh isn't that interesting the way they do that...I guess that's just they way they do it over there.

But if you perceive that a person is part of your own culture...there's a bunch of judgement ready to be handed down. Will you look at the way she wears those pants! Or whatever.

In my original post, I acknowledged that most folks wouldn't understand my way of thinking. If it helps you, think of me as being from a different culture. Clearly I do some things different than most. Very few people understand why we like the way we live in our cabin in the adks.

I admit you caught me on a bad day. But a little tolerance would be nice.

 

[Sharon]

Of course my goal when eating on a ski day is to getting something decent with a minimum of hassle and get back out on the hill. Lingering over a 5 star meal would make my brain explode.

That's just sad, yet typically northeastern.

Skidog is of this mentality...he doesn't like to waste time eating and he's been living in Utah for 2 seasons already.

You can take the boy out of the northeast, but you can't always take the northeast out of the boy.

I am looking forward to leisurely lunches in Utah when it is not a powder day, or if I'm totally whooped from skiing fresh powder all morning. I enjoyed lunching at the Rustler Lodge. That was a great idea and the food was excellent and not much more $$ than at the GMD or Alfs. Plus, it's nice to take all the wet gear off and put it by the fire to dry.

 

[Patrick]

Ditto for Switzerland.

I always fly into Zurich, but head straight to Austria, mostly because the ski areas there are less expensive. But I've got a big list of Swiss mountains I'd love to hit. As I mentioned in a thread a while back, aesthetics play as much of a role in the places I like to ski as the terrain and snow... that's why I'm hooked on Austria.

The French resorts are generally much higher, bigger, and reported to have better conditions/snow totals. But the thought of skiing into a French "village" like Les Menuires (even though it's supposed to have excellent and really extensive terrain) turns my stomach. The village of Chamonix looks nice from photos though and I'm sure there are many more.

Chamonix is a small town with ski areas around the valley. I wouldn't call it a ski village. This being said, the only place where I would like to stay on a sabbatical would be Chamonix or Bourg St-Maurice (real towns). Val d'isère would be nice, but pretty touristy ($$$).

I wouldn't generalize French resort that much. Yes, most big resorts are concrete towers and don't have much charm. Val d'Isère is pretty charming and as character.

old style still charming
Val d'Isère

The other places I've seen which weren't as charming.
Flaine (70s towers style)
Chamrousse (small with a few towers)
Alpe d'Huez (70s towers)
Les Arcs (not necessarily the ugly 70s stuff)
Tignes (towers)
Courchervel. Meribel, Val Thorenz, Les Menuires (pretty articificial in some cases)
Le Brevent-Flégère (Chamonix)
Grand Montets (Chamonix-Argentière)

Even some of the purpose-built French ones are quite charming. Courchevel 1850, for example, is downright gorgeous...but with all of that money floating around (it's the Deer Valley of Europe, and is over-run with Russian oligarchs) it should be.

)

I've heard Mégève is pretty much in the same category ($$$) although with more history.

 

[Tony Crocker]

My mentality for the day depends on the circumstances and conditions.

Lingering over a 5 star meal would make my brain explode

on a powder day. I also tend to chomp at the bit if I'm in a new or unusual place with a limited amount of time. NASJA had a bus daytrip to Verbier on the Chamonix trip in 2004, and I was certainly restless during the excellent but long lunch as it was a very nice day in a new and vast area. The group skied down to a wine-tasting after lunch, but I preferred to explore more terrain, and I barely made it to the bus at the end of the day. On that same trip conditions at Courmayeur were not so good, so I really enjoyed the leisurely lunch (with wine and grappa) and didn't care how much I skied afterwards. Same with Serre Chevalier last year.

I'm often in disagreement with the "charming and aesthetic village" priority. Most of those places the village was there long before the skiing. Unfortunately the more recent places built where the snow and terrain is best often have the sterile aesthetics. Vail, Whistler, Snowbird, plus the purpose-built places in France come to mind. But priority #1 is the skiing so I'll live with the rest of it.

 

[Patrick]

I was certainly restless during the excellent but long lunch as it was a very nice day in a new and vast area.

Tell me about it. Staying with a French friend and his family and friends at Les Trois Vallées during that same week Admin was skiing in the same area. I was extremely frustrated, loooong meals back in the condo. It's not like les 3 vallées is a small place and wanted to move around. I guess the pace is totally different and everything is savoured in Europe.

I'm often in disagreement with the "charming and aesthetic village" priority. Most of those places the village was there long before the skiing. Unfortunately the more recent places built where the snow and terrain is best often have the sterile aesthetics. Vail, Whistler, Snowbird, plus the purpose-built places in France come to mind. But priority #1 is the skiing so I'll live with the rest of it.

Although the base of the purpose-bulit resort in France can be as charming as a shopping mall, the small mountain restaurants total changes this. "Charming and aesthetic village" isn't a priority, but the culture and history adds to the experience in my eyes. The ski areas in the Jungfrauch (Grindelwald, Wengen and Muerren) was very enjoyable and a must destination for every World ski travel that wants to get a feel of the roots of Alpine Culture that lead the way into the sport of skiing as a leisure activity.

 

[Tony Crocker]

The ski areas in the Jungfrauch (Grindelwald, Wengen and Muerren) was very enjoyable and a must destination for every World ski travel that wants to get a feel of the roots of Alpine Culture that lead the way into the sport of skiing as a leisure activity.

This area is touted by the Rick Steves guidebooks as a must-do for summer tourists in the Alps, no doubt for the reasons Patrick mentions. But there are much better places from a skiing perspective from what I read. So many places, so little time!

 

[Patrick]

The ski areas in the Jungfrauch (Grindelwald, Wengen and Muerren) was very enjoyable and a must destination for every World ski travel that wants to get a feel of the roots of Alpine Culture that lead the way into the sport of skiing as a leisure activity.

This area is touted by the Rick Steves guidebooks as a must-do for summer tourists in the Alps, no doubt for the reasons Patrick mentions. But there are much better places from a skiing perspective from what I read. So many places, so little time!

The village of Wengen and Muerren, the original village resorts (no cars) which Intrawest/Whistler tried to copy for their Whistler model.

Muerren: birth place of competitive Alpine skiing started by the Brits. The Original Inferno race, from the Schilthorn to Lauterbrunnen

http://www.inferno-muerren.ch/frame_e.html

What is the Inferno Race?

The Inferno Race in the Swiss Alpine resort of Mürren was organized for the first time in 1928 by a group of "ski-crazy" Englishmen. Today it is the largest amateur skiing race in the world.
This spectacular annual event is so popular that participation has to be limited to "only" 1800 competitors - about half the skiers who would like to participate. The course covers 15.8 kilometres of contrasting terrain and topography, and is open to the skiing public at other times of the year.
The Inferno Race is particularly suited to allround skiers. As the official documentation explains: "The upper part of the course demands downhill turning technique and an optimal line. The middle section calls for an ideal downhill position and fast gliding. From the "Kanonenrohr" to the "Höhenlücke" technically superior skiers come into their own. Over the stretch from Maulerhubel to Winteregg, skating step and arm power can be all-important. And from Winteregg-Spriessenkehr to Lauterbrunnen optimal equipment, a clean downhill position and - not least - mental stamina can be the key to a fast final time."
Briefly, the course can be summarised as follows: The Start is located just below the 'Kleines Schilthorn'. From here, the course continues through the Engetal to the Schilthorn Hut. Then follows a long drawn-out "S" to just below the Muttlerenhorn, followed by the challenge of the Kanonenrohr. Next comes a further "Double S" and a sharp right curve. The course climbs into woodland, crossing the path of the Maulerhubel Skilift. A slight ascent then leads to Winteregg over the Winteregg Bridge, joining the forest trail in the direction of Lauterbrunnen.
This attractive course can be covered by competent skiers in about 45 minutes. The winner of the Inferno Race takes less than 15 minutes.

Important race dates:
First Inferno race in 1928
Start at Schilthorn 2970 m
Finish line Lauterbrunnen 800 m
Difference in altitude 2170 m
Length of course 15,8 km
Record holder Men Urs von Allmen 13.53.40
1992
Record holder Women Christine Sonderegger 17.08.42
1992

Here is the actual run from Schilthorn to Winteregg (I guess the last part to the Valley isn't run that often due to snow).

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=YfBdgsUph ... re=related

edit: Oh yeah, forgot to mention the James Bond, On Her Majesty"s Secret Service, filmed in Muerren.

The film trailer:

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=lTN9RvXi4 ... re=related

Wengen: And of course across the valley there is the Lauberhorn race in Wengen. One of the classic downhill with Kitzbuehel.

Bode Miller win in the Lauderhorn DH in 2008. Longer DH on the World Cup.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=4gWSqu5qX ... re=related

Bill Johnson freak win in 1984

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=3We3lQcAi ... re=related

Unfortunately I couldn't find any of the Crazy Canucks wins at Wengen.

Skier's view.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=mN3ihZ6yB_U

Add to that Eiger, ski train as lifts, villages and atmosphere...it's a must and was on my very short list of areas I wanted to see in Europe.