Destination Trips: Planned and Executed

[jamesdeluxe]

No agonizing over "quality".

Admin needs an axe-grinding icon. :lol:

With relatives in the area, I certainly understand why Geoff spends time at Whistler every season, but I'll go to my grave scratching my head why people on the East Coast prefer to go to W/B than the Alps. It makes sense time-wise for anyone living west of Pittsburgh, but from here (especially the NYC area), you can get to [name an incredible Alps ski region] in the same time and cost or less.

 

[Admin]

 

[Tony Crocker]

There are lots of ways to skin a cat.

q is here for a month with a car, so he has lots of flexibility where to ski even though his time frame is fixed far in advance.

I'll use Killington as my morning exercise instead of going to a gym.

I may critique such places as advance planned destinations, but for daily exercise any skier should be envious. JSpin even scores powder during many of his "morning exercise" jaunts.

I agree with james's comments in general, and I'm sure Patrick would even more so. The Alps are way underutilized by eastern skiers. I have barely scratched the surface there myself, but from California there is a considerable premium in time and $ vs. Rockies and Canadian destinations. I also have recurring commitments (Iron Blosam and NASJA) that occur during the prime season in the Alps.

 

[Geoff]

No agonizing over "quality".

Admin needs an axe-grinding icon. :lol:

With relatives in the area, I certainly understand why Geoff spends time at Whistler every season, but I'll go to my grave scratching my head why people on the East Coast prefer to go to W/B than the Alps. It makes sense time-wise for anyone living west of Pittsburgh, but from here (especially the NYC area), you can get to [name an incredible Alps ski region] in the same time and cost or less.

Because they speak English? Other than the amount of "eh?" and the letter 'u' in various words, British Columbia isn't out of the comfort zone of most US travelers. Other than poutine, shreddies, and needing to know that Montreal meat is more or less what you'd get in a really good NYC deli on rye, the food is the same. The license plate is rectangular. People drive gas guzzling SUVs.

With the resort experience: The lifts, grooming, and day lodges are just like the big US resorts. The terrain is arguably the best in North America. It gets way more snow than Europe. The tree line is much lower so you have a huge number of acres to ski midmountain when it's socked in.

Ignoring that "quality" :dead horse: metric when the Pineapple Express roars in and it pisses all the way up to the high alpine, Whistler is certainly worth the visit.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I agree with all of Geoff's positive comments about Whistler's specifics. I was responding to james' general observation. There are tons of eastern skiers who ski in the West regularly but have never or rarely been to the Alps. Everyone knows the snow is usually better in the West, but there's a long list of Euro resorts with Whistler-like terrain. And for the more casual skiers, the dining (particularly on-mountain) and apres-ski can be better. So good that Richard's non-skiing wife is perfectly happy to go with him to Euro ski resorts.

Americans need to get over the language provinciality. English is so widespread (as evidenced by my recent time in China and Japan) that it's rarely an impediment in any tourism-oriented region.

 

[rfarren]

Geoff, since the airplane tickets are paid for I'll be forced to fly continental, which I don't believe has a direct. I would be staying at my uncle's condo, which sadly is not in town. I've skied both Whistler and Vail, and I like both a lot. When I think of Nikki, who is a beginner I tend to lean towards Vail. I would imagine that it has more terrain available towards a beginner without feeling overwhelmed. I think Nikki would prefer the town of whistler, as the night scene is pretty fun, and she loves to dance. However, that would mean we might be running on little sleep or waking up late.

My nightmare is: Nikki on the lower slopes during a rain storm hating ski school. all the while it's dumping loads of dense snow up top with zero visibility.

 

[rfarren]

there's a long list of Euro resorts with Whistler-like terrain. And for the more casual skiers, the dining (particularly on-mountain) and apres-ski can be better. So good that Richard's non-skiing wife is perfectly happy to go with him to Euro ski resorts.

A european ski vacation is very high up on my list. I think it would be great to take Nikki there, but I would love her to be able to ski upper-intermediate terrain comfortably before going. The other problem with going to Europe is the costs involved. The Euro is very strong, and one can't exactly go over there for a mere 5 days like they can out west. If I went, I would want at least 9 days. The time necessary for a trip like that plus the cost make Europe a bit too difficult right now.

 

[Tony Crocker]

When I think of Nikki, who is a beginner I tend to lean towards Vail.

Absolutely. Whistler is not a good place for beginners IMHO. Most of the teaching areas are down low where it can rain, and where rfarren will likely ski only on his last run of the day.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

The other problem with going to Europe is the costs involved. The Euro is very strong, and one can't exactly go over there for a mere 5 days like they can out west.

After going there three straight years, the exchange rate was a dealbreaker for us the last two seasons. I ran the numbers and it "only" added about $300 pp for the accommodations/half board/seven-day lift ticket deal that the hotels offer, but with two people, we couldn't swing it.

Funny how Tony said that the Alps offer "Whistler-like" terrain. I always thought it was the other way around. As I've mentioned many times before, the market differentiator for me is the sheer expanse of the ski areas and the ability to travel from village to village, instead of always yo-yoing the same lifts over and over. Even a low-altitude region like the Kitzbuhel Alps is a completely different experience from what we have over here.

 

[rfarren]

As I've mentioned many times before, the market differentiator for me is the sheer expanse of the ski areas and the ability to travel from village to village, instead of always yo-yoing the same lifts over and over. Even a low-altitude region like the Kitzbuhel Alps is a completely different experience from what we have over here.

That's exactly the reason why I want Nikki to be proficient on the slopes before we go to Europe.

I've heard nothing but amazing things about skiing in Europe. While I was in the hospital post surgery, what got me through it were images from Europe trip reports. Someday I'm going to go out there for 2 weeks or so.

 

[Geoff]

When I think of Nikki, who is a beginner I tend to lean towards Vail.

Absolutely. Whistler is not a good place for beginners IMHO. Most of the teaching areas are down low where it can rain, and where rfarren will likely ski only on his last run of the day.

With the data that there is a beginner in tow, Whistler absolutely sucks. On much of the hill, she would be confined to some pretty crappy cat tracks. Even for an intermediate, it ain't great. On the Whistler side, the Emerald quad is jammed because it's the only real intermediate trail pod. The Blackcomb side is a better but it's not a great spot for a group with mixed ability.

Enjoy Vail.

 

[Tony Crocker]

While the advice to rfarren stands, I somewhat disagree about intermediates at Whistler. There are some nice groomed and/or intermediate pitches in the alpine zones: Burnt Stew Basin and the new Symphony area, the notch they blasted to allow a groomed run into Glacier Bowl from the back of Harmony. Much of Seventh Heaven and the Blackcomb Glacier are intermediate friendly. The Peak chair at Whistler is the only alpine lift with no intermediate runs, and up even there you can take catwalks around the back in either direction if you want to view the impressive scenery. Given the length of the runs and varied snow conditions, I would caveat the recommendation that intermediates should have decent fitness and not be "low or aspiring " intermediates.

it's not a great spot for a group with mixed ability

If that's your mix Vail and Mammoth are by far #1 and #2 in North America IMHO.

 

[rfarren]

My friend bought me 4 lift tickets for $50 each for Vail. They are good anytime, so it looks like no matter what happens, I'm going to Vail at some point this season.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

My friend bought me 4 lift tickets for $50 each for Vail. They are good anytime, so it looks like no matter what happens, I'm going to Vail at some point this season.

I realize that is a big discount from Vail's day rate... but isn't it funny that $50 is now considered a great deal? I've only skied Vail once in the past decade, because a ski instructor friend got us comp lift tickets. Not to be a snob -- and I understand why Rob would want to go there with a lower-level skier -- but the huge crowds (even on a weekday in mid-December) ain't my cup of tea.

 

[rfarren]

I realize that is a big discount from Vail's day rate... but isn't it funny that $50 is now considered a great deal? I've only skied Vail once in the past decade, because a ski instructor friend got us comp lift tickets. Not to be a snob -- and I understand why Rob would want to go there with a lower-level skier -- but the huge crowds (even on a weekday in mid-December) ain't my cup of tea.

I've thought about the crowds, and am trying to schedule a time when I know the crowds won't be so large. When I went last March there were hardly any crowds mid-week. By 1:30 it got a bit worse, but by then we were winding down anyways. I figured we would ski two days at Vail, and then maybe a day at Copper and one at Breck. The goal of the trip is for Nikki to have a great time. I think of it as an investment for many trips in the future.

 

[jasoncapecod]

The goal of the trip is for Nikki to have a great time. I think of it as an investment for many trips in the future.

smart man

 

[jamesdeluxe]

I've never been, but if you have to choose among the Vail resorts, isn't Beaver Creek the one with the fewest crowds? Aren't your Vail tickets good there?

 

[rfarren]

I've never been, but if you have to choose among the Vail resorts, isn't Beaver Creek the one with the fewest crowds? Aren't your Vail tickets good there?

I'm not sure... that is definitely worth thinking about.

 

[Tony Crocker]

but the huge crowds (even on a weekday in mid-December) ain't my cup of tea.

Not that hard to avoid IHMO. The usual common sense strategies apply: get on the mountain early, eat lunch early or late, ski in outlying or expert areas that the thundering hordes are too lazy or not capable of skiing. Given the reputation for crowds, my first 2 trips were in mid-January (1986 and 1990) and then Dec. 19-20, 1995 and there were no crowd issues at all. Last time was Monday of Easter Week 2007 the wind shut the Back Bowls for all but 2 hours. I got caught in a couple of bottlenecks midday but still wound up skiing 32K. If all the Bowls had been open I would have had a shot at 40K.

I would still avoid the Dec. 26 - Jan. 1 "zoo week." Otherwise I think rfarren will have few problems. Nikki may have more issues. I'd strongly recommend a couple of days in Vail's excellent ski school for her at the start. If she's reasonably fit and athletic, she should be able get around much of the mountain after that. I agree to mix in a day or two at Beaver Creek also, choosing days that rate to be busiest at Vail.

 

[rfarren]

I'd strongly recommend a couple of days in Vail's excellent ski school for her at the start. If she's reasonably fit and athletic, she should be able get around much of the mountain after that.

She can already ski a bit, i.e. greens and some low angle blues, but I was absolutely going to put her into ski school for at least two days, if not three. I thought perhaps on the fourth day it may be worth getting her a private lesson. If she can ski blues comfortably at the end of the trip I think it will be a great accomplishment.