Don't laugh...Worrying about prolonged stay at 8000+ ft.

[BernardP]

So this year, I am thinking about a 2-week trip to Aspen/Snowmass in early February. Both resorts are above 8000 ft. I have read and heard about people having problems (headache, dizziness, insomnia...?...) while staying at high altitude. I basically live year-round at sea level.

My wife knows a guy who spent a week in Mammoth 2 years ago and had the above symptoms for the whole week...It more-or-less ruined his vacation.

I have skied Snowbird/Alta many times before, and only once did I feel a bit of dizziness/weakness, and it passed quickly. But when skiing there, I always stay in SLC (about 4500 ft. I think), so no problem.

I would apprreciate comments and tips on this subject.

Thanks

 

[jasoncapecod]

I stayed a week at Winter Park( 9000') with zero effects from the attitude. The following year at Snowbird i had a head ache and felt nausea for 1st night. Everyone is different and every trip is different for us lowlanders. Usually the effects are short lived and mild. Drink plenty of fluids and lay off the booze the 1st day or so.

 

[Judz]

i live in los angeles (sea Level), and go to vail/beavercreek and mammoth every year. Ive never had any problems with dizzyness, but if your room has a humidifier i recomend using it. Also If you are prone to nose bleeds, make sure to keep some tissues on you when you are on the mountain.

 

[Patrick]

So this year, I am thinking about a 2-week trip to Aspen/Snowmass in early February. Both resorts are above 8000 ft. I have read and heard about people having problems (headache, dizziness, insomnia...?...) while staying at high altitude.

I've had this happened a few times to me before, however there is a few steps that I do now when I start a ski trip in higher than the East elevations.

#1: Drink a lot of water. In the Plane and on the hill.

#2: Avoid alcohol in the first (few?) days.

#3: Eat Pastas, No Steaks at the first.

#4: Don't over do it in the first days.

Since I've followed these, High Altitude hasn't been a issue for me.

 

[lookn4powder]

...I have read and heard about people having problems...

I've had this happened a few times to me before, however there is a few steps that I do now when I start a ski trip in higher than the East elevations.

#1: Drink a lot of water. In the Plane and on the hill.

#2: Avoid alcohol in the first (few?) days.

#3: Eat Pastas, No Steaks at the first.

#4: Don't over do it in the first days.

Patrick's prescription follows our experiences exactly, but I would suggest a couple refinements:

#1 & #2 are coupled. Pay special attention to maintaining good hydration several days before leaving on your trip. Likewise, avoid alcohol a couple days before leaving.

Regarding #4: We acclimate better when we spend a night at an intermediate altitude. For example, when skiing in Summit Co (CO), we fly into Denver late and stay on the west side of town. The next morning we ski Mary Jane and then move on. If it's March, we sometimes ski a day or two at Steamboat (6,695') and sleep at lower altitude before moving onto Frisco (~9200').

I also suspect that acclimating to high altitude is more difficult when one has left home suffering from substantial sleep deprivation. It is certainly more difficult for us low landers to sleep well with less oxygen.

Cheers,
Jeff

 

[Jonny D]

I've spent some, but not lots of time at ~8000ft (1 week), and I would echo what has been said.

I notice the altitude most during the first couple of days if I'm pushing really hard, or doing any hiking. I have basically realized that at high elevation, I simply can't do much hiking if the slope is more than a moderate pitch.

Drink lots of water, lay off the booze, get some good sleep and enjoy your vacation.

 

[Killclimbz]

And eat regular meals. Don't skip breakfest. The drinkin' thing, well I think you can drink just remember to hydrate too. Also remember at ~8000 it takes much less alcohol to get your buzz on. It's a money savin' deal if you think about it.

I have seen lot's of people flat out pass out at the lodge. Usually during lunch. Out of the three I talked too (caught one) they all had one thing in common. They skipped their breakfest. Eat a decent meal, and it should keep you from having your electrolytes drop, pass out, and have people like me make fun of ya! :lol:

 

[BernardP]

Thanks a lot guys!
Lots of very useful information in your posts. I am noting everything.

 

[ChrisC]

Aspen/Vail are not too bad at 8000. Summit County, Telluride and Taos at 9000 are worse.

Water, take it easy first 24 hrs and preventative ibuprofen. I will take some ibuprofen before chasing a bunch of Colorado locals above 12k.

Twenty-five percent of the travelers to moderate elevations developed acute mountain sickness, which occurred in 65% of travelers within the first 12 hours of arrival.

Mild AMS is treated with mild pain relievers such as aspirin, ibuprofen, or Tylenol. The patient should avoid sedatives, such as alcohol or narcotic drugs, which can depress respiration.

 

[lookn4powder]

And eat regular meals. Don't skip breakfest. The drinkin' thing, well I think you can drink just remember to hydrate too....

Great point on not missing breakfast. If fact, we always eat a good one and then we really go light on lunch. Why load yourself up on food that competes with the energy needed for skiing?

But this reminds me of #5: Carry a water bottle or hydration system on the slopes--particularly on powder days--and use it.

Cheers,
Jeff

 

[Tony Crocker]

I agree with Chris C. The average skier has little trouble at 8,000 unless he does something dumb like blatantly violate points #1&2 above.

A significant percentage (but still less than half) will have problems at the 9,000 ft. places even with reasonable behavior. After 3 such incidents with my ex-wife, I got her a Diamox prescription for a trip to Summit County and that seemed to work.

Altitude sensitivity depends mainly on individual physiology and until you've tried it you don't know what yours is. And there can be still be some variation by trip. As for admin's friend Todd (worst case scenario) last March.

 

[Admin]

As for admin's friend Todd (worst case scenario) last March.

Yeah, he was hypersensitive, skiing only 3 runs in 4 days while staying at my place at a mere 5,000 feet.

My wife, on the other hand, practiced all the rules above and ended up in Alta View Hospital in 2004 on oxygen and a morphine drip. We flew out from sea level in the a.m. and went straight to Snowbird, staying at the Cliff Lodge the first night, and moving up to Alta Lodge for the second night without descending. She was a wreck.

 

[Patrick]

I agree with Chris C. The average skier has little trouble at 8,000 unless he does something dumb like blatantly violate points #1&2 above.

I've had issue and was one of those overly sensitive types.

Altitude issues on certain trips that I can remember:

Whistler in 88 (don't remember any, might you I skied 6 days in 3 week while visited BC in June).

Flaine (France) in 91 at 1600m. First bad case, almost vomiting after a few runs at the 3rd or 4th day.

However I was on the university ski team during traning camp and arriving in Flaine on New Year's Eve. There goes #2 big time. Plus first time staying this high. I also didn't apply point 4. Didn't know about point 1 either.

Many French Alps day trips in 92-93. Only incident. My future wife still living in France passed out in the Top Tram at Alpe D'Huez. We had left at 5am from Lyon at sea level and went to the top at 3300m for the first run. She isn't a big breakfast person. Had to take the Tram back down and go eat. I wasn't 100% either.

Whistler in 96 and Lake Louise Hit me during the 4th day. Again, no water drinking and over doing it. It didn't help that the visibility was pretty bad during those days.

Banff in 99 Some symptoms. Massive headaches. Oevr doing it again.

I don't recall having any problems in Banff (00), Alps (00) Jasper-Banff (02), during last year 3 trips. I survived all 13 days in the Alps in 2003, the only symptoms I felt was during my run on la Vallée-Blanche in Chamonix. Not enough drinking and starting to ski at 3800m.

 

[Marc_C]

Whistler in 96 and Lake Louise Hit me during the 4th day. Again, no water drinking and over doing it.

The symptoms of dehydration are pretty much the same as mild AMS (Acute Mountain Sickness aka altitude sickness). The rule of thumb is "assume it's AMS until it can be ruled out by other causes". AMS will usually occur early in the trip, and by the 3rd and 4th day, most folks are acclimatized. If it was AMS, you'd have likely been feeling (although maybe not recognizing) symptoms the first 3 days as well. But then again, everyone reacts to altitude differently, and not necessarily the same from trip to trip. Stranger things have happened.

There have been lots of suggestions in this thread to "drink a lot" and "stay hydrated", but no one has quantified that advice. Here's a stab:
* half liter at breakfast, not counting any coffee or tea
* one liter during the morning
* half liter at lunch
* one liter in the afternoon
* half to one liter in the evening, pre, during, or post dinner
* additional if you feel thirst, a little less if you feel too bloated
* keep a bottle of water on your nightstand

Yeah, not that far off from what you might consume in the summer. Altitude + exertion + dryness of winter air = similar to summer needs.
If your pee is darker than palest yellow, you're not drinking enough.

Do I follow this? No, but sometimes I know I should have. I also live at 5K and go regularly to between 8K - 11K, so reasonably acclimatized. The suggestions above are for someone at/near sea level suddenly going to 8K and above.

BTW, being acclimatized doesn't mean you won't feel winded or take longer on a hike. It doesn't make up for the lower O2 level. It simply means you're no longer feeling the effects of altitude - headache, nausea, dizziness, vomiting, etc. - and are less susceptible to HACE and HAPE.

 

[Jonny D]

BTW, being acclimatized doesn't mean you won't feel winded or take longer on a hike. It doesn't make up for the lower O2 level.

No Kidding. If I'm over 5000ft, hiking (with ski gear) feels like running up the CN tower stairs without breathing. I realize that this is not ture for everybody, but take it easy on the hiking.

Also, if you're feeling a bit faint / feeble at lunch, relax untill you feel better again. I've gone back out thinking that it would pass as soon as the food kicked in, but skiing with jello legs and a foggy brain is a recipe for personal injury.

 

[BernardP]

I see that some people are very much sensitive to altitude.

Banff is only at 4800 ft. I have stayed there for 10 days without any problem.

Basically, for me and my wife, 8000 ft is a bit of a crapshoot.

Does the fact that I can day-ski at Alta/Snowbird (10000-11000 ft) without problem indicate that I am a good candidate for staying at 8000 ft?

 

[JimG.]

Alot is dependent on the individual as has been said before. The keys to avoiding altitude sickness have been mentioned...good hydration starting before you arrive, gradual acclimation to successively higher altitudes if possible, proper eating habits, less alcohol consumption.

I have taken several trips to relatively high altitude resorts like Vail and Beaver Creek (at least these were the places where my accomodations were). In the daytime, aside from a mild headache and shortness of breath the first day or two, I am fine.

But at night, I often wake up with an unnerving shortness of breath that mimics asthma. I don't have asthma, at least not at lower altitudes. Has anyone else experienced this?

 

[Patrick]

AMS will usually occur early in the trip, and by the 3rd and 4th day, most folks are acclimatized. If it was AMS, you'd have likely been feeling (although maybe not recognizing) symptoms the first 3 days as well.

Yes, you're probably right, but it was probably a accumulation of things like fatigue and not drinking enough for the first 2-3 days, so the worst impact would be felt on day 3 or 4, then I would be okay.

However, I hasn't happened because I've been careful about what I do.

I see that some people are very much sensitive to altitude.

Banff is only at 4800 ft. I have stayed there for 10 days without any problem.
(...)
Does the fact that I can day-ski at Alta/Snowbird (10000-11000 ft) without problem indicate that I am a good candidate for staying at 8000 ft?

Bernard, I didn't feel well in Banff a few years ago (prior to following the steps I wrote), since then I've been to Mammoth twice, stayed one week at Val Thorens (2300m) and skied a couple much higher places than Banff or Whistler without having any problems.

No Kidding. If I'm over 5000ft, hiking (with ski gear) feels like running up the CN tower stairs without breathing. I realize that this is not ture for everybody, but take it easy on the hiking.

When I think that Tony had me hiking to the Ridge at Bridger Bowl on day one of my Western Treak. :roll: :lol:

 

[Marc_C]

But at night, I often wake up with an unnerving shortness of breath that mimics asthma. I don't have asthma, at least not at lower altitudes. Has anyone else experienced this?

If I did, I don't remember it, but it is a normal physiologic reaction to altitude:

Periodic breathing is a normal phenomenon at altitude, and is most prominent during sleep. It is characterized by periods of hyperpnea followed by apnea. Apneic duration is commonly 3-10 seconds, but may be up to 15 seconds. It occurs in everyone above their personal altitude "threshold". It may lessen slightly with acclimatization, but does not resolve until descent. It becomes more pronounced with ascent, but is not associated with altitude illness. It may result in panic in the trekker who wakes up either during the breath-holding phase ("I've stopped breathing!") or with the post-apneic gasp ("I'm short of breath, I've got pulmonary edema!"). Reassurance is helpful.

The above was quoted from the "Physician's Clinical Guide" link at:
http://www.high-altitude-medicine.com/
A thorough explanation of altitude illness is at:
http://www.ismmed.org/np_altitude_tutorial.htm

 

[JimG.]

"Reassurance is helpful."

No kidding.

Thanks!