Eastern Molehills and Retro Areas

[ChrisC]

Why not? Fly your NYS Southern Tier freak flag proudly!

No. Then my Midwest/Upstate friends would feel free to make their gross mayo-based Salad concoctions and random 'Hot Dishes'/Casseroles.

Venison spiedies? Hopefully the marinade would cover up the gamey taste a bit.

Yes. After a week to a month, the Spiedie marinade could cover/transform the Venison.

However, there was nothing similar to help 'moderate' ice-fishing catches like Pike (bad) and Walleye (much better).

And the local Wild Turkey (bird, not the bourbon) was not great either.

Perhaps the best things that came from the Wild were Blackberries, or the Local Farm (now known as "organic, farm-to-table /farmer's market" $$ cuisine), such as Sweet Corn, Carrots, Rhubarb, Squash/Zucchini, etc.

It's amazing to me that so many farms in Upstate (especially those in the Finger Lakes) have been converted to Vineyards. And nearby old, somewhat dying towns have seen their historic homes refurbished by former Brooklynites. (The Finger Lakes' glacial lakes create unique mesoclimates and soils that are comparable to Germany's Mosel region, which is famous for its Riesling.)

I have been to a few Upstate New York weddings where the following is served:

Dr. Konstantin Frank Winery: The Finger Lakes Pioneer​

In 1958 Dr. Konstantin Frank ignited the "Vinifera Revolution" changing the course of winemaking in the Finger Lakes forever. Named Top 100 Winery of 2023.

I remember the spiedie pizza at Pudgie's in Cortland but never tried it.

It was a staple, like Pepronni.

I've mentioned before how during our long winters back then, you were either a skier or a hockey player, and the decision was partially on fiscal grounds (hockey was viewed to be more affordable).

Both are relatively expensive compared to most sports.

Comparison & Takeaways: Hockey vs. Skiing​

Here’s a rough comparative snapshot:

Category	Hockey (youth)	Skiing / Snow Sports (youth)
Typical lower-mid cost (recreational)	~$1,500 – $5,000/year	~$1,200 – $3,000/year (or more if very active)
High competitive / elite level	$10,000+ / year (especially with travel & tournaments)	Also can be expensive (lots of travel, coaching, lodging) but generally somewhat lower ceilings unless you're doing top-level competition
Gear & equipment	Helmets, pads, sticks, skates, replacement gear as kids grow	Skis, boots, bindings, helmet, goggles, winter clothing — and rentals if you don’t own
Facility / access	Ice time is expensive; teams rent sheets of ice for practices/games	Lift tickets, ski area access, passes; skiing is seasonal so you don’t have year-round facility cost
Travel & lodging	Frequent tournaments across regions can add hugely	Ski trips, out-of-area mountain resorts, lodging, etc. can be costly but less frequent in many cases

So in general:

• Hockey often has a higher baseline cost and higher fixed costs (ice, facility, gear) than skiing.
• Skiing’s major costs tend to cluster during the winter months (less year-round expense), but travel to good ski resorts or mountain-based programs can push it up.

We had the dirt cheap molehills and then the CNY ski areas, which were all within the means of anyone; however, once you graduated to the "big names" in the ADKs, Catskills, and then Vermont, you were definitely perceived as an entitled Richie Rich type.

Family friends organized group trips to Vermont, which reduced the cost and provided free or/discounted skiing at Pico, Smugglers' Notch, Magic, Sugarbush, and other locations.

There were lots of deals at local areas: 2-for-1 Tickets, Ladies Day, Night Skiing, Punch Cards, 2/4/6/8 hour tickets, beginner-only lift tickets, (painful) T-bar-only tickets, etc. At Greek Peak, Song, Labrador, Scotch Valley, Elk Mountain - one was having some deal on some day of the week.

The Greek Peak Ski Club (racing-oriented) and the Triple Cities Ski Club (social-oriented) both still exist.

Triple Cities Ski Club - Discounts and Deals

www.triplecitiesskiclub.com

Triple Cities Ski Club - Ski Trip List

www.triplecitiesskiclub.com

In 2023, I encountered the Greek Peak Ski Club while they were returning from a trip to the Dolomites via Milan/Newark. Some members noted that skiers were joining via the Internet solely for the discounts and were no longer necessarily locals.

 

[jasoncapecod]

Learned something new today
Gonna try that recipe.

 

[EMSC]

I've been to the Dr. Konstantin Frank winery before. He was famous for getting any grape to grow well in the area which had never worked out before. The winery was/is most famous for rieslings. Plenty of other wines made in the region now of course but still many other regions that try to poo-poo the finger lakes wines as only good at rieslings.

Will be in the region for a long weekend this weekend. Might have to try some spiedies and wine!

 

[MarzNC]

What this thread proves to me is that skiing was not in any way an elitist sport if you were growing up in upstate NY in the latter half of the 20th century. Every medium sized town had one of these convenient and dirt cheap local molehills where kids could learn to ski on weekends and even after school. And unlike some of us in warmer regions, nobody in that region had to buy any new clothing to ski.

I'd say that was true in VT and NH as well.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Dr. Konstantin Frank Winery: The Finger Lakes Pioneer

My wife and I went on a tour there 15 years ago. It was very serious and scientific. Then we went to Bully Hill five minutes south, which felt like the Finger Lakes version of Frass Canyon.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

No. Then my Midwest/Upstate friends would feel free to make their gross mayo-based Salad concoctions and random 'Hot Dishes'/Casseroles.

Fair enough. Speaking of random 'Hot Dishes'/Casseroles, I'd never heard of the dreaded green bean casserole until I moved to Colorado, where there were many transplanted midwesterners and Texans.

• Hockey often has a higher baseline cost and higher fixed costs (ice, facility, gear) than skiing.
• Skiing’s major costs tend to cluster during the winter months (less year-round expense), but travel to good ski resorts or mountain-based programs can push it up.

I was talking more about perceptions 50 years ago than an apples to apples comparison. If you limited your skiing back then to regional CNY joints, it was likely quite affordable. Beyond organized hockey leagues, we used to play a lot on frozen ponds. We'd go up into the forest with a few shovels, clear off the snow, and had a nice rink. That was a great memory.

 

[ChrisC]

Learned something new today
Gonna try that recipe.

A Spiedie is really just an Italian-influenced Kebab. The marinade, skewer and smaller pieces often result in less dried-out grilled chicken breasts.

Another decent recipe.

Spiedies Recipe

Spiedies are a mainstay sandwich of Binghamton, N.Y., and its surrounding boroughs They’re made of meat marinated for a long time in what amounts to Italian dressing, then threaded onto skewers, grilled, and slid into a cheap sub roll, sometimes with a drizzle of fresh marinade or hot sauce The...

cooking.nytimes.com

The article below is a great history lesson.

Don't Call It Shish Kebab: In Binghamton, It's Heaven (Published 1991)

BUFFALO has its chicken wings. Philadelphia has cheese steaks. Baltimore has crab cakes. Binghamton has the spiedie. This local delicacy (pronounced "speedy") is sold in dozens of restaurants and supermarkets in this city of 52,000 about 200 miles northwest of New York City. And every family...

www.nytimes.com

The word spiedie derives from the Italian word "spiedo," meaning "spit." The concept is ancient.

"It's what the Roman legions ate along the route of battle," said Rob Salamida, who bottles and sells a spiedie sauce. "Every country has its variation. My mother was in Russia and photographed a man there selling meat roasted on a skewer."

The man most frequently credited for bringing the spiedie to the Triple Cities of Binghamton, Endicott and Johnson City, is Augustino Iacovelli. Born in the Abruzzi region of Italy, he emigrated to the United States in 1929 and worked for Endicott-Johnson, the shoe manufacturer that was then the area's largest employer. By 1939, he opened Augie's, a restaurant on the north side of Endicott. Mr. Iacovelli grilled his spiedies on a porch that faced a park. The smells drifted over during fireworks displays and picnics, the story goes, and the smitten crowds flocked to Augie's.

The dish caught on. Retired workers set up portable grills in front of bars and sold their own versions of the spiedie. "It was a great symbiotic relationship," said Mr. Salamida, who used to sell them. "You eat a spiedie, you want a beer."

Mr. Iacovelli's son, Guido, now runs a mini-conglomerate of 26 restaurants from Rochester to King of Prussia, Pa. "The original spiedie was made on a special skewer by shepherds," he said. "The stick was picked green, peeled, then dried. The flavor of the stick permeated the meat, so you had a combination of the flavor of the stick with the meat and the charcoal."

 

[ChrisC]

I've been to the Dr. Konstantin Frank winery before. He was famous for getting any grape to grow well in the area which had never worked out before. The winery was/is most famous for rieslings. Plenty of other wines made in the region now of course but still many other regions that try to poo-poo the finger lakes wines as only good at rieslings.

Will be in the region for a long weekend this weekend. Might have to try some spiedies and wine!

My wife and I went on a tour there 15 years ago. It was very serious and scientific. Then we went to Bully Hill five minutes south, which felt like the Finger Lakes version of Frass Canyon.

The Finger Lakes are a little different than Napa, Sonoma, or the Russian River Valleys, but no less fun!

Wedding Wine Tasting

 

[Harvey]

Every medium sized town had one of these convenient and dirt cheap local molehills where kids could learn to ski on weekends and even after school.

Opened in 1937, still operating...

Ski Venture

 

[MarzNC]

Opened in 1937, still operating...

Ski Venture

They call it a "family cooperative." Built by a bunch of GE engineers. Have more than enough interest so that there is a waiting list in the fall.

One of the best videos about an "old school" ski hill I've ever seen.

 

[Tony Crocker]

A revisit to Google Earth shows the elevation range of Ski Venture to be 750 - 850 feet. An interesting point is that the slope it is on extends up to 1,150 feet. The top of that hill is thickly forested and of course we have no idea who owns it. Harvey can investigate!

 

[ChrisC]

No, I agree to a certain extent (disclaimer: Harv doesn't care what we think); however, I suppose that if we define ski areas as hills that have a working lift no matter how small the vertical, they should be part of his project and he should ski them.

Harvey is fortunate that the 1980s and 1990s saw the closure of many small resorts in New York State.

Or else he would have 2-3x the number of ski areas to visit. Tracking down what's open and how to get access to small, community-based, semi-private ski areas would have been a full-time job.

Visiting a few of these < 500-foot mountains is fun and a throwback. The 25th local hill is drudgery.

 

[Harvey]

Harvey is fortunate that the 1980s and 1990s saw the closure of many small resorts in New York State.

I secretly hope every NY ski area closes so I can dispense with all this ski drudgery. Up early every day, to make tracks in cord or whatever fell. God save me.

The way this forum views my project is like a check box exercise.

You and I are from different planets.

I'm doing it because I want to. There must be something you'd gladly do every day, even if it's eating or sleeping.

To me, it's like you are saying "It sucks that Harv's Mrs wants to get busy every night. What a drag!"

 

[Harvey]

Have more than enough interest so that there is a waiting list in the fall.

100 families can join and the waiting list is actually limited to 100 families.

 

[Tony Crocker]

You and I are from different planets.

I'm doing it because I want to.

This I understand.

There must be something you'd gladly do every day

With regard to ski areas, this I do not understand. I'd get restless skiing the same area every day, even if it was AltaBird. Skiing only one of James' Tier2 eastern areas every day, no. And if the variety is a bunch of Tier 5 areas, that would not cut it either.

Given Harvey's role running NYSkiBlog, I see the logic of this project in the first year of retirement. I'll be interested in whether he expands his horizons in future seasons. Consider hitting the road for three months at mostly Indy Pass areas in western North America for example. This is what Lonnie did from 2021-2023.

 

[EMSC]

A Spiedie is really just an Italian-influenced Kebab. The marinade, skewer and smaller pieces often result in less dried-out grilled chicken breasts.

Spiedie meat in the local grocery store.

Map of a small portion of the roughly 100 wineries on the Finger Lakes wine trail.

Ridiculously nice weekend for October.

Reds aging in white oak barrels.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Real culture and real people, not that weak sauce out west.

Should be its own report!

 

[ChrisC]

Real culture and real people, not that weak sauce out west.

Should be its own report!

Alright, here’s a lighthearted roast "The Realness" of the Finger Lakes wine country — all in good fun

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“Napa, but make it Upstate.”​

The Finger Lakes are like that friend who insists they’re “just as good as Napa” — while you’re sipping a semi-dry Riesling out of a plastic tasting glass next to a parking lot. The lakes are stunning, but the vineyards? Half of them feel like someone’s cousin just decided to plant grapes because the soil was cheap and they had a dream.

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The “Terroir” Is Mostly Cold Fronts​

Every winemaker will tell you about the unique microclimate — which is code for “we pray the frost doesn’t kill everything before harvest.” They love to brag that the cold air “brings complexity” to their wines. Translation: the vines are suffering, and so are you after your third tasting of “crisp but acidic” whites.

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Riesling, Riesling, and... Riesling​

You like Riesling? Great. You don’t? Tough luck. The Finger Lakes have more Rieslings than Germany’s lost export shipments. You’ll see “dry,” “semi-dry,” “off-dry,” “sweet,” and “we-promise-it’s-not-sweet” — but they all taste like slightly different versions of lemon water with ambition.

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Wine Tours, But Bring a Boat​

The “lake views” sound romantic until you realize it’s a 45-minute drive to get to the next winery because every road curves like a drunk snake. And if you’re not careful, your “wine trail” turns into a four-hour scenic tour of cornfields and Dollar Generals.

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Gourmet? More Like “Farm-to-Microwave.”​

Every tasting room promises “artisanal local cheese pairings.” Translation: a $6 grocery-store cheddar and a Triscuit. If you’re lucky, someone’s aunt runs a food truck with “elevated” grilled cheese and calls it a wine-pairing menu.

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Small-Town Charm (and by “charm,” we mean “your Airbnb has a rooster.”)​

Sure, it’s peaceful — until you realize the nearest coffee shop opens at 10 a.m., and your “vineyard view suite” comes with the faint smell of manure. That’s not terroir — that’s reality.

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Getting There Is Half the Battle​

Flying into Rochester or Syracuse just to drive another two hours feels like a pilgrimage to prove your devotion to regional viticulture. You start with dreams of Pinot Noir and end up Googling “is this the right Seneca Lake or another one?”

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Verdict​

The Finger Lakes wine country has heart, hustle, and some genuinely passionate winemakers — but it’s also a lovable overachiever trying to cosplay as Europe with a New York accent and a Subaru full of mud.

 

[ChrisC]

Or.....

Alright, buckle up — here’s a roast from Napa’s perspective, aimed squarely at its scrappy East Coast cousin.

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“Oh, Finger Lakes — that’s cute.”​

Napa sees the Finger Lakes the way a Michelin-star chef looks at a gas station hot dog. Sure, it’s technically food… but let’s not pretend it’s the same thing. Napa has $500 tasting flights and $1,200 hotel rooms; the Finger Lakes has $12 flights and a B&B called “Grandma’s Grape Escape.”

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The Weather’s So Bad It Builds Character​

Napa’s grapes bask in golden California sunshine year-round. The Finger Lakes? Those poor vines spend six months wondering whether they’ll freeze to death or drown. In Napa, they call it “vintage variation.” In the Finger Lakes, they call it “please God, not another frost in May.”

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Scenic Drives vs. Cow Paths​

In Napa, you glide between sleek, architect-designed wineries in your rented convertible. In the Finger Lakes, you bounce along potholes behind a tractor while your GPS says “recalculating” for the 14th time.
Napa: A curated wine trail.
Finger Lakes: An obstacle course with occasional Chardonnay.

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Napa’s “Cabernet Culture” vs. “Riesling or Bust”​

Napa makes Cabernet that costs more than your car. The Finger Lakes? They make Riesling that costs less than your gas to get there. Napa pours “velvety tannins and oak complexity.” The Finger Lakes pours “crisp acidity” — which is just marketing for “sour but refreshing if you pretend.”

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“Our Wine’s $250 a Bottle — and Worth It”​

In Napa, you’ll drop a week’s rent on a single tasting — but you’ll feel rich while doing it. In the Finger Lakes, the wine’s affordable because you have to be to survive there. The sommeliers in Napa have PhDs in oenology; in the Finger Lakes, your pourer’s side hustle is substitute teaching.

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Michelin Stars vs. Food Trucks​

Napa pairs its wine with truffle risotto crafted by a chef who studied in Lyon. The Finger Lakes pairs theirs with a “charcuterie box” that’s 80% pretzels. And somehow, there’s always a winery dog named Cooper licking your shoe while you eat it.

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“We Have Scenery Too!”​

Yes, the Finger Lakes are beautiful — in that “Postcard from 1952” kind of way. But Napa has cinematic rolling vineyards that glow at sunset. The Finger Lakes have one lake view and seventeen barns that double as wedding venues.

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The Brand Power Difference​

Napa is global — people fly from Tokyo and London for a sip. The Finger Lakes? You might meet someone from Buffalo if you’re lucky. Napa’s bottles end up in Michelin cellars; Finger Lakes wines end up in gift baskets at regional conferences.

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Verdict​

Napa is the supermodel of wine regions — effortlessly glamorous, perfectly tanned, and slightly smug about it.
The Finger Lakes is the sweet, hardworking sibling who shows up to Thanksgiving with homemade cookies and says, “One day I’ll make a Cabernet too!”
We love the Finger Lakes — but let’s be honest… Napa already won the beauty pageant, the talent show, and probably owns the winery where the Finger Lakes interns dream of working.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

here’s a lighthearted roast "The Realness" of the Finger Lakes wine country — all in good fun

Fair enough but isn't that more or less the way France looks (or looked for decades) at California? The roast above seems to imply that vineyards in the Finger Lakes believe they're more than "the sweet, hardworking sibling who shows up to Thanksgiving with homemade cookies" and I doubt that's the case.