Eastern Molehills and Retro Areas

jamesdeluxe said:
Stuart is an engaging writer.
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Yes he is.
MarzNC said:
Have you ever skied at a small hill in the northeast? Meaning with 1000 ft or less.
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No. The only areas I've skied anywhere under 1,000 vertical are the defunct Kratka Ridge and Ski Sunrise in SoCal, Lee Canyon outside Vegas (all ~700 vertical) and Canada Olympic Park ~400 in Calgary.

My North America East of the Rockies experience is here. There are still a few western areas over 1,000 that I have not skied, and I can possibly drive to some of them on the way to major destinations. I'm getting an Indy Pass this season from NASJA and that is added incentive to try them. Many of these places are at least "James Tier 2" areas by Northeast standards.

Once you get on an airplane expense goes up and so does the quality bar to clear. I've been willing to pay that air expense (most western ski journalists won't) to go to NASJA events in Quebec, Lutsen and Stratton. In the Northeast cases I spent extra time to ski "more important" Northeast areas in addition to those where the NASJA events were. I also had a day here and there when I was working on weekends before or after actuarial conventions in Boston and Hartford where work picked up the airfare.

Molehills are important as a cheap intro to the sport, especially where they are convenient enough for local kids to utilize after school. That does not mean they are worth visiting if you live beyond daytrip driving distance.
 
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Tony Crocker said:
Molehills are important as a cheap intro to the sport, especially where they are convenient enough for local kids to utilize after school. That does not mean they are worth visiting if you live beyond daytrip driving distance.
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Agree that molehills are important to the ski industry.

As for whether or not they are worth the time, that depends on what someone considers fun. I like Stuart's stuff because I find the operations side of the ski industry interesting as it evolves. I appreciate that he is visiting as many ski areas/resorts as possible to get a first hand sense. There is no substitute for personal experience.

I'm pretty unusual as a recreational skier with no professional reason to travel for skiing. Ski trips are not always planned to optimize ski conditions and maximize turns on good snow. In the last decade the goal has been to experience a variety of ski areas/resorts in multiple regions. Mixed in with return trips to favorite destinations. Helps that I have a few ski buddies with similar interests willing to drive long distances for skiing.

Tony Crocker said:
Once you get on airplane expense goes up and so does the quality bar to clear.
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Makes perfect sense. I don't expect Aussies to have any interest in planning trips to ski in New England. But have answered questions when someone has another reason to be in Boston or New York City.

While it's not going to happen regularly, I will probably drive for a northeast ski safari again. I've done ski safaris in the northeast, southeast, mid-Atlantic . . . and the midwest. Not for any professional reason, but to satisfy my curiosity about the difference in vibe.
 
MarzNC said:
I appreciate that he is visiting as many ski areas/resorts as possible to get a first hand sense. There is no substitute for personal experience.
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That's the way I look at it too. But I have quality and variety standards. I'm not sure what the point is visiting 50 molehills. If you want to run up the area count at under the radar places, James has the right idea to do that in Europe where those places are still huge and varied by North American standards.

The other part is how much of a "first hand sense" do you get skiing 2 hours at Alpental, then driving to Spokane or trying to ski places as expansive as 49 Degrees North and Mt. Spokane in the same day?
MarzNC said:
Ski trips are not always planned to optimize ski conditions and maximize turns on good snow.
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Here again there need to be minimum standards. If terrain is not open because coverage is inadequate or slopes too dangerous (rain/freeze), are you really experiencing what a ski area has to offer? And when a ski area is partially open you can almost count on the most interesting terrain being what is closed. This is a virtue of road trip skiing. On short notice you can skip the places that are suffering and visit some that are doing better.
I like Stuart's stuff because I find the operations side of the ski industry interesting as it evolves.
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That is the topic where he is today's top ski journalist IMHO.
 
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Tony Crocker said:
No. The only areas I've skied anywhere under 1,000 vertical are the defunct Kratka Ridge and Ski Sunrise (both ~700 vertical) in SoCal and Canada Olympic Park ~400 in Calgary.
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I may have to start a Western Molehills thread as I may ski a couple of them in OR and WA this Winter.

Snowland, UT is not that far out of the way between Las Vegas and SLC and is free this year and probably next, Fri-Sun only. https://www.sltrib.com/news/environment/2025/11/07/utah-gives-snowland-fairviews-free/ and https://snowlandutah.weebly.com/

I've skied a few under 1,000 vertical areas around Tahoe. I worked a couple of weeks in 1975 at Granlibakken which got me a discounted Palisades pass. They now have two surface lifts and 300' vertical. When I worked there, they were going under, and part of my job was to put plastic on condo roofs to prevent damage. A friend and I hiked up and skied there in 1976 when driving between N and S Tahoe.

Others, all near Donner Pass where they get a lot of snow:

Boreal, 500 vertical. They used to have a S-facing backside lift. My notes: "One night while living at Truckee/Tahoe (Fall 75-Spring 77). And 10/31/89 with my brother when it was free if in costume - I wore hospital scrubs. April 94, my son’s 1st day, on free beginner lift. I recently saved VHS tape from that day to digital.

Soda Springs, 550 vertical, 1976-77 on a free day. Roomates were with me including one, who was a pro patroller at Palisades and worked the tram disaster, hurt his ankle. Steep at top under main lift. Also stopped there on way home from UT Olympics so my son could tube.

Donner Ski Ranch, 750 vertical. Main lift is S/SE-facing. They often stay open later in Spring than others in area including Sugar Bowl. My first day there was free, limited to first 750 people, champagne grand opening when main lift was upgraded to a triple (1983). After four glasses of Chandon, I returned to skiing to sober up so I could drive home. Also skied there 5/31/2010 when I could have gone to Mammoth instead as they were only two CA ski areas open. Short, steep N-facing and longer, not as steep NW-facing chairs on backside.
 
Tony Crocker said:
If you want to run up the area count at under the radar places, James has the right idea to do that in Europe where those places are still huge and varied by North American standards.
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I don't go to obscure areas to "run up my count" because it's not a competition and if it were, we haven't established a uniform criteria for interconnected megaresorts with numerous villages or terrain sectors that were previously separate.
 
tseeb said:
I may have to start a Western Molehills thread as I may ski a couple of them in OR and WA this Winter.
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Maybe Western Retro Hills. I'm interested! :)

A molehill in the east is typically not much vert (under 1000) and limited acreage. Makes most of the "small" mountains along the west coast seem large in comparison. I created a list of "old school" ski areas on another forum a while back based on places members mentioned. Arbitrarily used 500 acres as a cutoff to separate the list, which ended up mostly places in the east or west. Wasn't up for thinking about the midwest back then.

tseeb said:
Boreal, 500 vertical. They used to have a S-facing backside lift. My notes: "One night while living at Truckee/Tahoe (Fall 75-Spring 77). And 10/31/89 with my brother when it was free if in costume - I wore hospital scrubs. April 94, my son’s 1st day, on free beginner lift. I recently saved VHS tape from that day to digital.
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Boreal has close to 400 skiable acres. That's 3-4 times more than all the ski resorts in the southeast besides Snowshoe, which has about 250 skiable acres including a few gladed areas.
 
jamesdeluxe said:
"run up my count"
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was poor phrasing on my part. It's the desire to try out new places. But there needs to enough of interest at anew place to spend the time and $$.
MarzNC said:
"old school" ski areas
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is the most accurate description of the obscure places in the Alps, because they are far from small. The deterrent to some skiers might be dependence upon surface lifts.
MarzNC said:
Boreal has close to 400 skiable acres. That's 3-4 times more than all the ski resorts in the southeast besides Snowshoe, which has about 250 skiable acres including a few gladed areas.
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Standards are probably related to what kind of skiing you grew up with. Snow Summit is 1,175 vertical and 250 acres of 90% intermediate pitch. When out of my region I've very unlikely to seek out anything much less than that, unless prior research and reputation says there's something uniquely interesting.
 
jamesdeluxe said:
Explain? He doesn't limit himself to the northeast. What else is different?
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Earning turns, high speed lifts, pass math, mega passes, air travel, snow tires, bigger is better. A big one: what constitutes value.

I have a hard time finding similarities. We both love skiing. We genuinely like each other. NYSB has supported him from the very beginning and he appreciates it. We're both overjoyed that Skiology is behind a paywall now.
 
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