First snow - Uinta Mountains, UT 9/17/2011

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A sharp cold front rolled through Utah late yesterday. It was still in the low 70s in the Salt Lake Valley today but it was cold enough to snow last night both in the Wasatch and in the Uintas.

At sushi Friday night Bobby Danger, Amy and I decided to hike into the Uintas with my new labrador retriever puppy, Jake, and Amy's lab, Voodoo, once the weather cleared, which was predicted to happen by early afternoon. We arrived in the Crystal Lake parking lot around 1:30 pm.

The 4.5-mile clockwise loop past Cliff Lake, Watson Lake and Clyde Lake, followed by an overland route to connect with the Notch Mountain Trail and return via Wall Lake is one of my favorite day hikes in the Uintas. I just did the very same hike two weeks ago when my sister visited from Boston, but neither Bobby nor Amy had done it before and it provides ample opportunity for the dogs to swim, so it was an easy choice.

Peaks were still dusted with snow from the night before and shaded areas still had patches of snow on the ground. They must've had a couple of inches accumulated at first light before things started melting. All bare ground was still wet.

01 voodoo lilly lake 110917.jpg


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We headed up the short but steep hill to Cliff Lake, where the dogs had their first swim of the day.

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02 reid peak and bald mt 110917.jpg


We continued up and beyond Watson Lake to Clyde Lake, where we stopped for a snack while the dogs swam in the lake to retrieve sticks.

02a uintas admin amy 110917.jpg


03 clyde lake 110917.jpg


04 summers last wildflowers 110917.jpg


05 uintas jake 110917.jpg


As we left Clyde Lake, though, dark clouds were forming over the divide and racing our way. I had a rain jacket along, which is requisite gear any time in the Uintas. However, it soon began spitting graupel which after a time became a full-on snow squall.

05a uintas snowing 110917.jpg


Jake got to play in his first snow and I'm thrilled to say that he loved it...like father, like son. :wink:

06 uintas jake first snow 110917.jpg


As quickly as the squall moved in it moved on, bathing the forest with sunlight once again.

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08 uintas hayden peak 110917.jpg


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The change of seasons has arrived in Utah. It's been a short summer but the best days are right around the corner!
 
Wow! It looks like a beautiful hike! I would love to check it out sometime...and the snow is just an added bonus. Here's to the change of seasons...
 
this was my first real hike since coming back from the old country over the labor day holiday . caught a cold on the plane ride back from manchester - airlines need to change the air scrubbers in some of those planes more often (THEIR FRIGGIN TERRIBLE AIR QUALITY INSIDE THOSE PLANES WHEN THEY LOCK THE DOOR) but that's for a whole different conversation . really wasn't a demanding hike every bit of that was 10,000 + feet in elevation just under five miles in length. where we parked the car and started hiking and everywhere we hiked you can bet there was a couple of inches of snow earlier in the day, everywhere there was any real shade from the sun still had a bit of NEW snow. and yes i'd have to agree with admin that great days are not far away !!!!!
 
Bobby Danger":3evxu4p1 said:
...everywhere there was any real shade from the sun still had a bit of NEW snow. and yes i'd have to agree with admin that great days are not far away !!!!!
Yep. Bought my season pass yesterday - opted for Alta-only this year. While Alta and Snowbird have gone from $800 to a kilo-buck each over the past 7 years, the combined AltaBird pass has gone up $100 almost each year since it's inception. It's now at $1700 (before 9/15, $1800 after). It will cost me $32 each day that I choose to upgrade to a combined for that day, so that extra $700 for the season combined works out to a bit over 20 days. While I certainly get in more than 20 days at the Bird each season, the vast majority for me are in the spring, and Snowbird has two spring-pass products that are significantly less than $700. Who knows - it may work out to a wash and I'll spend the $700 anyway, but this way I get to spread out the cash outlay over the course of the season.
 
MarcC":2uygbfsl said:
Bought my season pass yesterday - opted for Alta-only this year.
Same as last year I believe. As a local it wouldn't be my choice to do a one area pass. I've watched/read about too many days of admin and BobbyD wandering back and forth to optimize conditions. Not to mention the advantages of skiing Alta more early season and Snowbird more late season. If I was putting in 50+ days in LCC I wouldn't bat an eye at the quality maximization of the AltaBird pass. It's still <$35/day. The faster price rise of the combined pass indicates that much of the local market shares my view.
 
altabird pass is still one of the best deals in america bar -none. i'd buy one even if they both charged full price- just means i'd have to ski a bit more- this winter i'm going to try to get out a bit more than last year. 95 days during the regular season isn't anything to complain about (especially here) . can't have only half of paradise
 
Marc_C":dymdwrlg said:
Bobby Danger":dymdwrlg said:
...everywhere there was any real shade from the sun still had a bit of NEW snow. and yes i'd have to agree with admin that great days are not far away !!!!!
Yep. Bought my season pass yesterday - opted for Alta-only this year. While Alta and Snowbird have gone from $800 to a kilo-buck each over the past 7 years, the combined AltaBird pass has gone up $100 almost each year since it's inception. It's now at $1700 (before 9/15, $1800 after). It will cost me $32 each day that I choose to upgrade to a combined for that day, so that extra $700 for the season combined works out to a bit over 20 days. While I certainly get in more than 20 days at the Bird each season, the vast majority for me are in the spring, and Snowbird has two spring-pass products that are significantly less than $700. Who knows - it may work out to a wash and I'll spend the $700 anyway, but this way I get to spread out the cash outlay over the course of the season.

Buying mine this week Also opting for the Alta only this season. The way i look at it. The main terrain i like to ski (at bird) is in the comma chute/keyhole area anyway. Now that they run the Alta shuttle more frequently (make a phone call) I can ski that terrain and not have to worry about the shitshow that is snowbirds lift. While I sort of agree with Tony since he doesnt live here he doesnt really get the whole picture. Yes you can maximize terrain on good days, but the time it takes you to do ONE lap at the bird on a pow day i can get 3 runs of equal quality (yeah i know where to look for it now buckos) at Alta. Come spring, like MarcC I will buy a spring pass for like under $300. You still save a couple bucks that way and if I want i can always upgrade for a day if I think the bird might hold a few gems. I just realized that all in all, i didnt ski bird that much "in season" (meaning altas season) where i actually rode lifts last year. Its also a money issue as well... ;-)

Totally looking forward to the upcoming season.

M
 
Tony Crocker":2ub7yl3n said:
MarcC":2ub7yl3n said:
Bought my season pass yesterday - opted for Alta-only this year.
Same as last year I believe.
What? Now you're an expert on what passes I purchase and where I ski???
No, you're wrong.

Tony Crocker":2ub7yl3n said:
As a local it wouldn't be my choice to do a one area pass.
The vast majority of locals purchase a single area pass - it's too damned expensive to do otherwise. Besides, the only combined pass in the state is the AltaBird.

Tony Crocker":2ub7yl3n said:
I've watched/read about too many days of admin and BobbyD wandering back and forth to optimize conditions. Not to mention the advantages of skiing Alta more early season and Snowbird more late season. If I was putting in 50+ days in LCC I wouldn't bat an eye at the quality maximization of the AltaBird pass. It's still <$35/day.
But it's still an additional $800 right now. Last season was a bit shorter than my usual - only 50 days or so thanks to life events forcing a six week layoff - but less than 10 were at Snowbird prior to their spring pass deals. A Bird unlimited spring pass starting in mid-April to the end of the season is $279.

Tony Crocker":2ub7yl3n said:
The faster price rise of the combined pass indicates that much of the local market shares my view.
No, it indicates a product that they can use for price gouging.
 
Tony Crocker":7t1j2avf said:
As a local it wouldn't be my choice to do a one area pass. I've watched/read about too many days of admin and BobbyD wandering back and forth to optimize conditions. Not to mention the advantages of skiing Alta more early season and Snowbird more late season.
You're kind of missing the point here. You seem to be implying that Alta-only pass = not skiing at the Bird. I'm saying that the break-even point before the spring pass products is 21 days (based on the one-day upgrade price of $32), and I usually don't ski that many Bird days Dec-March. For those days where a combined pass is advantageous or I have visitors wanting to ski the Bird, I'll get the upgrade for the day. Looking at *my* historical patterns (not what _you_ think _you_ would do *if* you were a local) of skiing the two areas, I'm guesstimating that upcharge for the combined pass doesn't make financial sense for *me*. I also have 10 Solitude days that I want to use up this season.
 
Marc_C":twewy9ie said:
Tony Crocker":twewy9ie said:
As a local it wouldn't be my choice to do a one area pass. I've watched/read about too many days of admin and BobbyD wandering back and forth to optimize conditions. Not to mention the advantages of skiing Alta more early season and Snowbird more late season.
You're kind of missing the point here. You seem to be implying that Alta-only pass = not skiing at the Bird. I'm saying that the break-even point before the spring pass products is 21 days (based on the one-day upgrade price of $32), and I usually don't ski that many Bird days Dec-March. For those days where a combined pass is advantageous or I have visitors wanting to ski the Bird, I'll get the upgrade for the day. Looking at *my* historical patterns (not what _you_ think _you_ would do *if* you were a local) of skiing the two areas, I'm guesstimating that upcharge for the combined pass doesn't make financial sense for *me*. I also have 10 Solitude days that I want to use up this season.

Im with you 100% here Marcc......i just didnt get the snowbird time last season until after alta closed. I buy an alta pass (999) and then a spring bird pass for $279, thats like a $400 savings, and i still get to ski a ton of bird days from April til June..I'm sure i could "swing" the purchase if i wanted to....just this season im not going to i dont think..i still have time to change the mind though...so we'll see.

M
 
We all have our individual preferences between the areas. Historically I've estimated that I would ski 3 days at Snowbird for every one at Alta. Recent trends indicate that if I lived in Utah now the ratio would be no more than 2-1. With that ratio I think the AltaBird pass is a clear decision. For those with a very strong preference for one area over the other, skiing mid-season at 5-1 ratio (just a guess, but seems reasonable for MarcC and Skidog) the single area pass with daily upgrades as needed is probably cheaper.

$32 each day that I choose to upgrade to a combined for that day, so that extra $700...
Math is straightforward. 22 days (including combined days) at the lesser preferred area is the breakeven point. I would easily exceed that but others may not.

FYI our Altaphilic admin skied 73 days in 2006-07, of which 15 were exclusively Snowbird and another 4 combined. Admin has not contributed to the "Skier Day Count" threads since then, and I'm too lazy at the moment to add up all the TR's.
 
A cursory audit of admin's posts from 2010-11, obviously incomplete since the total is only 92 days. 48 were exclusively Alta, 35 were Snowbird or combined. 16 of the Snowbird days were after Alta closing, 5 or 6 of those have to be considered later than a "normal season" Snowbird closing. 1 day was before Alta opened. More than half of the 18 others were combined Alta/Snowbird. 9 days at other Utah locations.

I think these audits are somewhat useful as we know admin's ski days are based purely on anticipated ski quality with no price/cost preference.
 
Although I'm neither Marc C nor Skidog, Tony's analysis makes their points rather well.

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Tony Crocker":299b2w8v said:
admin's ski days are based purely on anticipated ski quality with no price/cost preference.
His TRs indicate that the people with whom he would like to ski on a given day (out-of-town guests, family, Utard crew, etc.) also influence his choice of mountain.
 
jamesdeluxe":2rprifnu said:
Tony Crocker":2rprifnu said:
admin's ski days are based purely on anticipated ski quality with no price/cost preference.
His TRs indicate that the people with whom he would like to ski on a given day (out-of-town guests, family, Utard crew, etc.) also influence his choice of mountain.

True


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jamesdeluxe":2bzvcyit said:
His TRs indicate that the people with whom he would like to ski on a given day (out-of-town guests, family, Utard crew, etc.) also influence his choice of mountain.
I believe those factors tend to reduce his percent of days spent at Alta somewhat.
 
Tony Crocker":1bf0fu79 said:
jamesdeluxe":1bf0fu79 said:
His TRs indicate that the people with whom he would like to ski on a given day (out-of-town guests, family, Utard crew, etc.) also influence his choice of mountain.
I believe those factors tend to reduce his percent of days spent at Alta somewhat.

Wouldn't that be an increase his days at Alta given that most of Admin's crew and visitors visit Alta almost exclusively.
 
socal":rjak5y4d said:
Wouldn't that be an increase his days at Alta given that most of Admin's crew and visitors visit Alta almost exclusively.
Admin met most of the locals in his crew in the first place because they are Altaphiles. It's a chicken-and-egg situation. I have met several groups (Iron Blosam timesharers, the retirees I met at Chatter Creek, Liz' friends who moved from NYC) who ski Snowbird as or more exclusively as admin's crew skis Alta. This board presents a somewhat distorted view. I come off as the Snowbird devotee vs. most of the locals that post here. The observed crowds last year reinforce my view that Snowbird is overall more popular than Alta. The reality is that if I were a local I would be in a middle group that puts in a lot of time at both areas, thus my preference for the AltaBird pass. The roughly half price daily upgrade cost makes it easier for the locals with a lopsided preference to buy a one area pass.

With regard to the visitors, there's little question in my mind that they lower his Alta percentage. Also no question that admin raises the Alta percentage of the visitors, as he has in my case.
 
it's nice to go outside the canyon to see how everyone else is coping !! getting my passport in line for a possible trip to canada this winter !!!!!!!! hope white water has a good year
 
BobbyD is hitting the road!?! FYI NASJA West regional meeting is hosted by Red/Whitewater Jan. 27-31. I'll be cat skiing at Mustang and Baldface before that.
 
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