All week jay has been calling for 6-10 inches for friday , hype , hype , hype. Selling a storm that wasn't even close to happening. And of course, the storm fizzles all rain friday and the mountain will now be closed for saturday. They need to stop reporting snow totals for storms that have not happened, it is frustrating and misleading for customers.
In typical jay peak fashion. . .
- Thread starter redeyes
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Didn't 'report' snow totals so much as we forecasted them. Not sure how we're any different than the average meteorologist when it comes to offering forecasts--especially when we generally try to quote the source (be it Roemer or some other less, um, happy outlet).
Sorry it was frustrating for you. I know how you feel. I want to be angry with forecasters who were jamming us full of hope this week too.
That said, let's go with a foot between Mon and Fri next week.
Sorry it was frustrating for you. I know how you feel. I want to be angry with forecasters who were jamming us full of hope this week too.
That said, let's go with a foot between Mon and Fri next week.
redeyes":gbos0hzj said:
no surprise here. like i said, " in typical jay peak fashion" same thing as always with those "opptimistic" marketing type. I say leave the forcasting to the meteorologists.
And since jay no longer has a message board, it will be difficult to let them know how we all feel. Unless steve wright is going to keep tabs on this site all season, seeing as how he has already chimed in, we will see.
Lets all hope for the best here we need some snow so that i can get off this wretched computer and go make some turns. This sitting and waiting stuff is really starting to get at me.
let it snow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And since jay no longer has a message board, it will be difficult to let them know how we all feel. Unless steve wright is going to keep tabs on this site all season, seeing as how he has already chimed in, we will see.
Lets all hope for the best here we need some snow so that i can get off this wretched computer and go make some turns. This sitting and waiting stuff is really starting to get at me.
let it snow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
riverc0il
New member
i like what mad river glen does (the gold standard of both snow reporting and weather forecasting in new england skiing, imo). mrg has two weather forecasters provide a detailed and in depth forecast with detailed analysis. the weather forecast is also generally kept on a completely separate page from the snow report/conditions report. NWS discussion and weather maps are posted and the general feel is that the mrg weather page is providing the beta and you make the call.
http://madriverglen.com/?Page=weatherx.php
most ski areas tend to predict snow fall in advanced and even post that info along side their snow/conditions reports. i have only been following jay reports for a short while since i moved up here, but i have noticed that jay's web site has made predictions more often than other areas when the forecast is questionable, the weather iffy, and snowfall very uncertain. any one following scott's posts this week, for example, probably expected no snow fall this weekend, or at least nothing note worthy.
http://madriverglen.com/?Page=weatherx.php
most ski areas tend to predict snow fall in advanced and even post that info along side their snow/conditions reports. i have only been following jay reports for a short while since i moved up here, but i have noticed that jay's web site has made predictions more often than other areas when the forecast is questionable, the weather iffy, and snowfall very uncertain. any one following scott's posts this week, for example, probably expected no snow fall this weekend, or at least nothing note worthy.
TroutBum
New member
I agree w/ Riv re: MRG... and related to my point above, MRG has no real axe to grind, as it's a co-op, owned by a diverse membership, instead of an arm of a for-profit corporation. MRG's investors are its most passionate customers.
Unfortunately, this is quite a rare -- if not unique -- circumstance... especially considering the terrain that MRG boasts...
Anyway, I guess we all agree: don't just take Jay's reports with a grain of salt... instead, search out better, unbiased sources...
Mike
**edited to remove a typo**
Unfortunately, this is quite a rare -- if not unique -- circumstance... especially considering the terrain that MRG boasts...
Anyway, I guess we all agree: don't just take Jay's reports with a grain of salt... instead, search out better, unbiased sources...
Mike
**edited to remove a typo**
When you think about it, without capitalism there wouldn't be much lift served skiing, and there would be much less equipment developed for the BC. If you want the benefits of the money motive, your gunna have to deal with some marketing.
It might be fun to come up with a primer for translating ski mountain ski speak....
precipition = r@in
etc.
M
It might be fun to come up with a primer for translating ski mountain ski speak....
precipition = r@in
etc.
M
I would say I'd have to agree with all/most of this. We (Jay Peak) probably do go out in a more hazardous way than most resorts. I actually do like Jim Roemer, but he is often overly optimistic with his forecasts and often will shoot first before double and triple checking. Not his fault, tho, that we go out early with his stuff. That's something we definitely need to improve upon.
Agreed about MRG, Messrs Friedman and Wimble manage the place with an eye on zero-based budgeting each season. They do a great job but their pressures come from within which is unlike any scenario in eastern resort ops. That I know of, at least. That being said, Jay Peak offers plenty of latitude to its marketeers and we actually could do more by saying less. That's something we can look at for sure.
Snowing now.
Agreed about MRG, Messrs Friedman and Wimble manage the place with an eye on zero-based budgeting each season. They do a great job but their pressures come from within which is unlike any scenario in eastern resort ops. That I know of, at least. That being said, Jay Peak offers plenty of latitude to its marketeers and we actually could do more by saying less. That's something we can look at for sure.
Snowing now.
salida
New member
We could argue about this all day long, but the fact is ski areas need to sell their product. They'd be stupid to give you a forecast sayings its going to rain. Anyone can go to weather.com and figure that out. I think most places overstate snow/snow quality but hell, who cares.
We can hate on Jay all we want, but the simple fact is at the end of the day they have more snow than anywhere else in new england...... and that is the truth.
We can hate on Jay all we want, but the simple fact is at the end of the day they have more snow than anywhere else in new england...... and that is the truth.
TroutBum
New member
Steve (@jpr that is..)--
Thank you for acknowledging that input from forums such as FTO may/could influence marketing decisions.
Jay certainly appears to be 'aspiring' to an ASC/Booth Creek style resort. 'More of the same' a la Killington, Sunday River, Mt. Snow, Loon, Stratton, etc... it only drives away the most hardcore and passionate skiers, IMO. Not that those areas don't have great terrain to offer, but the Corporate Experience gets old quickly.
Would you mind, if you can, disclosing Jay's policies regarding what markets they're 'actively' marketing to? Is the focus on 'attracting families likely to purchase real estate' or 'getting as many skiers on the hill as possible'? Obviously the answer is 'Yes... both!' to any marketer worth their salt, but I'm asking for more specificity... I think we all understand that investors need to get their return, and that growth is necessary, etc... But could you break down the marketing-ese?
Please provide any detail you can on the marketing goals of Jay Peak... Can you, say, provide percentages of budget related to marketing efforts? Would Jay prefer a family of four from Wellesley, MA (a generalization... i mean with 'copious amounts of disposible income') over a carload of four single men in their early twenties? Are we seen as multiple categories of 'skiers', 'skiers with potential to buy', etc? How does Jay categorize known customers? Is the 'Jay Peak ski mountain' marketing staff separate from the 'Jay Peak Resort Area' marketing staff?
I certainly do not 'hate' Jay. I have been a Jay evangelist in the past, however, knowing the goals of the organization's efforts will color my recommendations to others to come up there. I'd much rather spend my money an organization whose goals align with my own. Providing the best skiing experience possible rather than 'getting folks up here at all costs to see the real estate.' If that means I spend the rest of my skiing career on MRG's single chair, well, maybe that'll be the case...
OK.. Enough on my rant/challenge for information.. Apologies to others if it's not as coherent as I'd hoped.. Steve, I do mean to put you on the spot, but hopefully in a creative manner. I'm all ears and want to listen in an open minded manner.
And on that note, just got the call to go troutin' in December! Who knew that December would mean laying down casts for rainbows and brookies instead of chasing pow up north...
M
Thank you for acknowledging that input from forums such as FTO may/could influence marketing decisions.
Jay certainly appears to be 'aspiring' to an ASC/Booth Creek style resort. 'More of the same' a la Killington, Sunday River, Mt. Snow, Loon, Stratton, etc... it only drives away the most hardcore and passionate skiers, IMO. Not that those areas don't have great terrain to offer, but the Corporate Experience gets old quickly.
Would you mind, if you can, disclosing Jay's policies regarding what markets they're 'actively' marketing to? Is the focus on 'attracting families likely to purchase real estate' or 'getting as many skiers on the hill as possible'? Obviously the answer is 'Yes... both!' to any marketer worth their salt, but I'm asking for more specificity... I think we all understand that investors need to get their return, and that growth is necessary, etc... But could you break down the marketing-ese?
Please provide any detail you can on the marketing goals of Jay Peak... Can you, say, provide percentages of budget related to marketing efforts? Would Jay prefer a family of four from Wellesley, MA (a generalization... i mean with 'copious amounts of disposible income') over a carload of four single men in their early twenties? Are we seen as multiple categories of 'skiers', 'skiers with potential to buy', etc? How does Jay categorize known customers? Is the 'Jay Peak ski mountain' marketing staff separate from the 'Jay Peak Resort Area' marketing staff?
I certainly do not 'hate' Jay. I have been a Jay evangelist in the past, however, knowing the goals of the organization's efforts will color my recommendations to others to come up there. I'd much rather spend my money an organization whose goals align with my own. Providing the best skiing experience possible rather than 'getting folks up here at all costs to see the real estate.' If that means I spend the rest of my skiing career on MRG's single chair, well, maybe that'll be the case...
OK.. Enough on my rant/challenge for information.. Apologies to others if it's not as coherent as I'd hoped.. Steve, I do mean to put you on the spot, but hopefully in a creative manner. I'm all ears and want to listen in an open minded manner.
And on that note, just got the call to go troutin' in December! Who knew that December would mean laying down casts for rainbows and brookies instead of chasing pow up north...
M
riverc0il
New member
thanks to steve for jumping into the hot seat and answering questions and posts directly from the firing squad :lol: suffice to say that much of the criticism is made because people are passionate about the sport and where they ski. this thread would not have appeared if people didn't love jay and truly enjoy skiing there. though, this is the "no bull" ski reports on FTO's liftlines, i think it is a forum that has earned the name! 
so thanks for trying to dish the straight poop with some of your most demanding customers.
so thanks for trying to dish the straight poop with some of your most demanding customers.
Patrick
Well-known member
Thanks Steve,steve@jpr":s87ty69s said:M--all good questions and I'll get to what I can on monday. Home right now and 2 daughters have other agendas...
I've wanted to put my 2 cents on this topic, however I too, have often deal with my 2 daughters when I'm at home. Like right now. :wink:
Hey Steve , great to see you anwering questions on this site , I think you will probably find it more civil that your own ( Jaypeak )site . Overall, with all the weather problems and looking at my own records , I think we are only about 1 week behind so no reaon for panic to set in. Now at home with 3 kids who somehow hold me responsible for lack of snow :wink: Just keep telling them any day now and guess what, just statred to snow ! :lol:
Hi Steve!
Just a quick note to tell you that everyone i've talked to doesn't like Jay's new website... I've sent comment to customer service but got no answer...
Jay's website is just to corporate. Saint-Sauveur doesn't need to mention and talk about weather... everyone in MTL can tell what's the weather like 30min north... But Jay's different... We need to get the inside scoop... PLus, the snow report is hard to find... It should jump right in your face... Most people visiting Jay's website want to know:
- Current conditions
- A few pictures
- Upcoming weather system
No need to talk about "real estate" or "family packages"... You need to have the info... but it's not what most people that visit the site everyday want to know.
Also, by having the same website for all MMSI makes no sense... C'mon... A field for open lifts and trails AT NIGHT! C'mon... doesn't seem to professionnal... feels like a half done job!
Like i've said before, Jay use to be pionners when it comes to website and it'S content... If anything, i would have tought that Jay would be offering the new step in Web format... like a GPX file of the trails at Jay ... That way, those who use a GPS could not get lost by seing all of Jay's trail on their GPS... We do it with bikes all the time... I get GPS files for the trails i've never been to... why not do the same with skiing and snowboarding...
And right now (sunday night), we don't even know if Jay's open tomorrow!
Just a quick note to tell you that everyone i've talked to doesn't like Jay's new website... I've sent comment to customer service but got no answer...
Jay's website is just to corporate. Saint-Sauveur doesn't need to mention and talk about weather... everyone in MTL can tell what's the weather like 30min north... But Jay's different... We need to get the inside scoop... PLus, the snow report is hard to find... It should jump right in your face... Most people visiting Jay's website want to know:
- Current conditions
- A few pictures
- Upcoming weather system
No need to talk about "real estate" or "family packages"... You need to have the info... but it's not what most people that visit the site everyday want to know.
Also, by having the same website for all MMSI makes no sense... C'mon... A field for open lifts and trails AT NIGHT! C'mon... doesn't seem to professionnal... feels like a half done job!
Like i've said before, Jay use to be pionners when it comes to website and it'S content... If anything, i would have tought that Jay would be offering the new step in Web format... like a GPX file of the trails at Jay ... That way, those who use a GPS could not get lost by seing all of Jay's trail on their GPS... We do it with bikes all the time... I get GPS files for the trails i've never been to... why not do the same with skiing and snowboarding...
And right now (sunday night), we don't even know if Jay's open tomorrow!
riverc0il
New member
BigJay brings up a good point about the web site. i am sure the new web site is using some advanced and cutting edge web development app, but it is not user friendly and very impractical. i would not expect steve to answer for that as it seems like a corporate decision by MMSI, but hopefully the feedback can be relayed as i don't know any one that likes the new web site either.
unfortunately, corporate branding and unifying of style, look, and content often times becomes more important than content. unifying brand and style is fine, but usability and function really needs to take priority over flash, looks, style, and form. the folks at MMSI should give the book "don't make me think" by steve krug a read in regards to how developers design web pages vs. how their customers actually use them. then again, maybe that goes back to TroutBum's inquiry about who the web site is designed to target for marketing purposes :lol: seriously though, this isn't steve's job but hopefully word can be passed upstairs.
i gotta disagree with BigJay about GPX plots for GPS units. if you need a GPS to successfully navigate jay, you probably are somewhere you shouldn't be. GPS units can be broken or lost and batteries can die. in bounds, a trail map is a lot more useful than a GPS for location and off the trail map, best to study up at home and in the field and not rely on tech.
unfortunately, corporate branding and unifying of style, look, and content often times becomes more important than content. unifying brand and style is fine, but usability and function really needs to take priority over flash, looks, style, and form. the folks at MMSI should give the book "don't make me think" by steve krug a read in regards to how developers design web pages vs. how their customers actually use them. then again, maybe that goes back to TroutBum's inquiry about who the web site is designed to target for marketing purposes :lol: seriously though, this isn't steve's job but hopefully word can be passed upstairs.
i gotta disagree with BigJay about GPX plots for GPS units. if you need a GPS to successfully navigate jay, you probably are somewhere you shouldn't be. GPS units can be broken or lost and batteries can die. in bounds, a trail map is a lot more useful than a GPS for location and off the trail map, best to study up at home and in the field and not rely on tech.
Sharon
New member
Hey Steve,
Great to see you on the forums!! The FTO participants are alright. I'm sure they will treat you with respect, something you surely have gained by responding on this site.
Glad to see Jay Peak is open. It's been a tough start to this season. The snowmaking operations on the Jet are impressive. Hopefully cold temps are here to stay!
Greek Peak opens saturday (woohoo) (Sparky is working/living here now)
Maybe cya around Xmas.
-Sharon
Great to see you on the forums!! The FTO participants are alright. I'm sure they will treat you with respect, something you surely have gained by responding on this site.
Glad to see Jay Peak is open. It's been a tough start to this season. The snowmaking operations on the Jet are impressive. Hopefully cold temps are here to stay!
Greek Peak opens saturday (woohoo) (Sparky is working/living here now)
Maybe cya around Xmas.
-Sharon