Intrawest in trouble - Tremblant might be sold off

If you have been reading former FTO Whistler poster Mark's blogs, you know that Whistler's usually consistent ski conditions were mediocre until late February. That probably cut their skier numbers from the drive-up Vancouver and Seattle markets quite a bit. And we know from the Utah 2002 experience that Whistler visits will be depressed during the Olympic year coming up. Note the comment in one of the articles that skier visits at Intrawest's eastern properties held up well this season.
 
Tony Crocker":2ty50h6k said:
Note the comment in one of the articles that skier visits at Intrawest's eastern properties held up well this season.

You mean this one? :shock:

Jensen said Copper Moun­tain and Winter Park performed well given current economic conditions, as did several of Intrawest’s Eastern resorts.

That is not what is coming out of most Quebec ski areas. Le Massif did really well with only a 7% drop in skier-visits from last year record season, but most didn't. In the story belong, the owner of Bromont mentioned being the worst season in the last 10-15 years.

edit: Story about the difficult season for Quebec ski areas from Hélène Baril from LaPresse newspaper.
:wink:
Here are a few quotes (sorry, no time to translate). You can use babelfish or learn French.

Des stations de ski au bas de la pente
Publié le 16 avril 2009 à 07h05 | Mis à jour à 07h07

(Montréal) À cause de la saison décevante qui vient de se terminer et du ralentissement économique qui hypothèque la prochaine, plusieurs stations de ski du Québec pourraient décider de mettre fin à leurs activités.
«C'est certain que des stations de ski vont se poser des questions», a indiqué hier le porte-parole de l'Association des stations de ski du Québec, Alex Boyer.


La plupart des centres de ski viennent de tirer un trait sur une saison décevante. Le bilan n'est pas encore définitif, mais on peut parler d'une baisse d'achalandage de 100 000 à 400 000 visiteurs, selon les stations, comparativement à l'an dernier, avance l'Association qui regroupe les 80 centres de ski en activité.


Les pentes n'ont pas manqué de neige, mais la météo n'a pas coopéré, surtout pendant les week-ends. Il a plu pendant le congé de Noël, la période la plus importante de l'année pour les centres de ski. Il a fait très froid pendant les mois de janvier et février, ce qui a découragé les skieurs. Et la semaine de relâche, l'autre moment fort de la saison, a été décevante.

«L'an dernier, nous avions eu la meilleure saison des 10 ou 15 dernières années et cette année, c'est la pire des 10 ou 15 dernières années», résume Charles Désourdy, le président de Ski Bromont.


Une mauvaise saison qui suit une bonne, ce n'est pas dramatique. Mais la prochaine saison pourrait aussi être difficile pour les centres de ski, qui craignent l'impact du ralentissement économique. La prévente des abonnements est un indicateur important pour la saison qui s'annonce. À Bromont, la prévente accuse un retard de 20% par rapport à l'an dernier.

L'industrie du ski est fragile et plusieurs stations sont déficitaires. En 2007-2008, une saison jugée excellente, les profits de l'ensemble des 80 stations du Québec ont totalisé un maigre 21 millions.

C'est très peu compte tenu des investissements qui s'imposent dans la grande majorité des centres de ski. L'industrie sait qu'elle doit investir une centaine de millions dans l'équipement d'enneigement artificiel et encore 100 millions dans le remplacement des remontées mécaniques, dont l'âge moyen, vénérable, est de 29 ans.

Aucun propriétaire de centre de ski ne gagne assez d'argent pour faire ces investissements, selon le porte-parole de leur association. Le programme d'aide mis sur pied par le gouvernement Charest l'an dernier, qui accorde un prêt couvrant 75% de la valeur de l'équipement remplacé sur une période de 15 ans, s'est avéré inutile. Aucun centre de ski ne peut en profiter.

La raison est simple, selon Alex Boyer. «Une remontée mécanique coûte 2 millions au minimum et encore, ce n'est pas un modèle débrayable. Le remboursement sur 15 ans représente des paiements de 150 000$ à 200 000$ par saison. C'est l'équivalent des profits annuels de beaucoup de stations, dans une bonne saison», explique-t-il.

Des discussions sont en cours avec le ministre des Finances et du Développement économique, Raymond Bachand, pour essayer d'améliorer le programme.

Le nombre de stations de ski au Québec est passé de 130 à 80 au cours des 20 dernières années. Il pourrait diminuer encore, compte tenu de la situation financière précaire de certaines stations et des perspectives d'avenir peu encourageantes.

L'industrie fait face à des défis de taille, dont le réchauffement climatique, qui rend l'enneigement artificiel indispensable et le vieillissement de la population, qui fera diminuer le nombre de skieurs actifs.

À lui seul, le facteur démographique sera responsable d'une diminution de 30% du nombre de skieurs d'ici 2015, selon une étude de la Chaire en tourisme de l'Université du Québec à Montréal.


C'est assez pour faire réfléchir plus d'un propriétaire de centre de ski qui doit décider s'il investit ou s'il ferme boutique.

http://lapresseaffaires.cyberpresse.ca/ ... -pente.php
 
Patrick":2m42hsnh said:
That is not what is coming out of most Quebec ski areas.
It was talking about Intrawest properties... the only ones in the northeast are Tremblant, Stratton, and Mountain Creek.
 
jamesdeluxe":255vwfzk said:
Patrick":255vwfzk said:
That is not what is coming out of most Quebec ski areas.
It was talking about Intrawest properties... the only ones in the northeast are Tremblant, Stratton, and Mountain Creek.
Yes, but I wanted to be sure Tony didn't think that the East had a good year in term of skier visits. (see other discussion)
 
I will wait for Kottke, but I still believe that a good early/mediocre late season like 2008-09 will always draw many more skiers than a bad early/great late season like 2006-07. We nutcases have all skied terrific but empty days in April, like the Utards are doing now. The skier visit numbers are far more sensitive to what the weather is in December.

While 2007-08 was consistently good throughout most of North America, it was more than that in Quebec. After the best season in 40+ years, numbers are going to be down no matter what the economy is. The economy is having a consistent effect at most places this season: driving down revenue disproportionately in discretionary services, upscale lodging bookings etc. beyond the modest drop in skier visits. I would expect the drop in skier visits to be much more at a place like Whistler that had a poor early season.
 
Quebec skiing is in trouble long term( changing interests/demographics ) down the road but this year the drop in skier visits had a lot to do with the weather . For example in the Laurentians I had 9 powder days( 6">) out of 25 trips but all of them were before Feb. 2 nd . It only snowed once in February ( mid month 4") and then lots of rain with the freeze/thaw cycle going on forever. The lack of new snow locally ended my hike/ski season early with no local powder . However in my books January was a great month as lots of powder and cold perfect combo as it keeps the fair weather skiers away , however not good for business :wink: . Times have changed , can't believe so much complaining about the cold .
 
jamesdeluxe":1s1w4k3j said:
Patrick":1s1w4k3j said:
That is not what is coming out of most Quebec ski areas.
It was talking about Intrawest properties... the only ones in the northeast are Tremblant, Stratton, and Mountain Creek.

With few exceptions Quebec is pricey as a destination and Intrawest Tremblant is flat out greedy. Intrawest Tremblant has perfected the art of separating a skier from their money with development surcharges, the aforementioned cost of food, charging people not staying in their properties for a close parking spot, etc. I feel for the people working at the resort, but not for the greedy buggers that run the place.

Coming from central Ontario it's cheaper for me to travel the extra 2-3 hours and ski Vermont or New Hampshire. I get a much wider choice of mountains, warmer weather than Tremblant, way cheaper gas, way cheaper micro-brewery beer, Green Mountain Roasters coffee and the bonus of hitting the duty free on the way home. I realize that Tremblant is a "destination" but so is Stowe and at last years Toronto Ski show I could get much better pricing for Stowe even with the 20% exchange.

By spending some time on the internet, mountain hopping and using ski show coupons I skied 4 days in Vermont (Bolton, Burke, Jay & Okemo) and 5 days in New Hampshire (Cannon x 2, Waterville Valley, Bretton Woods & Attitash) and never paid more than $35 for a lift ticket. Offering me a lift ticket / accommodation deal gets me to a hill the first time, and if I like what I ski then I come back, maybe not next year but then the year after. I also promote through word of mouth. (The North Woodstock, NH chamber of commerce should be sending me free lift tickets every year for my efforts!) What I save on lifts and accomodation I generally spend on an extra pint on the hill, better meals and some shopping in town.

I think the mountains that will ride out the next few years best are those that will offer the best value for the money rather than the cachet of being a "destination."
 
Les pentes n'ont pas manqué de neige, mais la météo n'a pas coopéré, surtout pendant les week-ends. Il a plu pendant le congé de Noël, la période la plus importante de l'année pour les centres de ski. Il a fait très froid pendant les mois de janvier et février, ce qui a découragé les skieurs. Et la semaine de relâche, l'autre moment fort de la saison, a été décevante.

«L'an dernier, nous avions eu la meilleure saison des 10 ou 15 dernières années et cette année, c'est la pire des 10 ou 15 dernières années», résume Charles Désourdy, le président de Ski Bromont.


First off, I agree what comparing with last year doesn't really mean anything.

Tony Crocker":2e0hakyh said:
I will wait for Kottke, but I still believe that a good early/mediocre late season like 2008-09 will always draw many more skiers than a bad early/great late season like 2006-07.

Yes and No. Yes, but good skier customer weather also means no deep freeze. The story mentioned it rained during the Holidays, the most important time of the year for ski areas. And it was very cold during January and February.

Bromont president mentions that it was their worst year in 10-15 years.

The ski season ended fast partially because ski areas didn't want to lose too much money this season.
 
Tony Crocker":3sp3eo4u said:
The story mentioned it rained during the Holidays
Which it has done for the past 6 years, IIRC from another thread.

Not necessarily in Quebec. :roll:

I will wait for Kottke

How are goes numbers go? Are they broken down into day-tickets versus season-passes? Season passes sold generally increased from last year record season, but day tickets thumbled.
 
Regarding the Intrawest thing and Tremblant in particular remember that Intrawest is know longer an independent company but now part of Fortress a huge REIT. Intrawest selling assests has more to do with Fortress having financial problems(what a shock) and needing to raise some cash than Tremblant, in particular.

As far as skier visits go, intel is starting to come in. Okemo and kmart reporting a slight downtick from last year, IMHO I am forecasting 4.1m year for Vermont vs 4.3m last year, up from 3.8m the year previous. I think most of the major northeastern destination resorts will be down abit but some of the smaller hills near population centers are having a good year versus last year.

Course, it's all debatable but one thing I personally don't do is depend solely on the survey financed by the NSAA/SAM.

Still skiing, go out and get some :mrgreen:
 
Patrick":3cpo7uvo said:
Bushwacker1951":3cpo7uvo said:
Still skiing, go out and get some :mrgreen:

I was, that why I didn't post at 11:30am this morning. :wink:

:lol: Actually, I posted the above from Gatehouse Lodge at the bottom of LP at the Bush. Sunday was an awesome day, totally made up for the crappy day on Saturday.
 
IMHO I am forecasting 4.1m year for Vermont vs 4.3m last year, up from 3.8m the year previous.
Right in line with my prediction: down 5% from the banner year last year but up from 2006-07, which was bad during the usually high volume part of the season.
 
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