Is skiing in Australia even fun?

[ChrisC]

Skiing in Australia was never really on my radar. Why would you fly to Australia in its winter to ski on some small, inconsistently snowy hill? Especially when you have New Zealand nearby.

So I started looking into it a bit recently - out of curiosity. Sounds rather unfun and financial extortion. My research is cursory, but just reading from the Aussie Powderhound website....it sounds like everything I dislike about Tahoe without any of the upsides.

About Mt. Buller:

• Mt Buller is ridiculously crowded on weekends with weekend warriors and sightseers. You’ll need the patience of a saint as you queue to get chains, wait to drive through the mountain gate and up the mountain, wait to get on a bus from the car park, get equipment rentals, purchase a lift pass, join the logjam to use the restroom, and this is before you even get a chance to stand in a chair lift queue. You’ll also need to do a lot of waiting in order to leave the mountain.
• For those staying overnight, you not only have to pay for resort entry and overnight parking, but an expensive taxi to take you to your accommodation. The wait times for these taxis can be very long.
• Skiing in Australia is expensive, but Mt Buller potentially takes the cake on emptying your wallet.
• Australian skiing is not renowned for snow quality or quantity, but Mt Buller generally has the most problems with consistent snow cover of the major Australian ski resorts. Mt Buller receives less snowfall, and a significant part of the ski resort has a very sunny aspect. Often there are large parts of the terrain that are not open due to inadequate snow.
• Buller is renowned for frequent foggy weather, and as the top of many of the lifts converge in an open treeless area, it’s easy to get very disoriented in low visibility.

Mt Buller

Mt Buller Ski Resort is within an easy day trip from Melbourne. See the Mount Buller review for the pros and cons of the skiing and snowboarding, and other facets of Mt Buller.

www.powderhounds.com

I had no idea about the cumbersome parking and lodging fees. Is this true?

Now I understand why you see so many Aussies in Japan, Whistler, Europe, etc. Perhaps cheaper and a lot more enjoyment.

 

[jimk]

Sounds like skiing in the mid-atlantic US, which I did for 50 years. You ski what you have to ski. Don't know how far most Australian ski areas are from major urban areas, but at least in the mid-A they were close enough that you could take strategic mid-week days off, avoid weekends, while cherry picking for decent conditions and skiing when the mtns were deserted.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

While Tony has posted extensive warm-weather content from all over Australia, this is the only skiing-specific report with photos that I could find on FTO within the past eight or so years. Are there others?

 

[Tony Crocker]

Are there others?

Lower in the thread James references above are a bunch of Instagram links from Patrick's 2018 trip. This is not my preferred method of posting ski TRs but for several years it has been all we're going to get from Patrick.

Chris' OP here is definitely and I suspect we'll be hearing from sbooker soon. We would hear from Patrick also but perhaps not with the elbow injury.

You ski what you have to ski. Don't know how far most Australian ski areas are from major urban areas, but at least in the mid-A they were close enough that you could take strategic mid-week days off, avoid weekends, while cherry picking for decent conditions and skiing when the mtns were deserted.

Jimk has this right. BUT Thredbo/Perisher are 5.5 hours from Sydney. That's SoCal to Mammoth, or perhaps Snowshoe from jimk's locale, Melbourners have it a bit easier: 4 hours to Hotham/Falls Creek or 3 hours to Mt. Buller, but still not daytrippable for most people. That makes cherry picking more difficult.

The Aussies are enthusiastic, so way back in 1997 I knew what I was getting into because the forum on https://www.ski.com.au/ was already very active. I skied Thredbo on Friday July 18 after 50cm two days earlier over a very thin base (Spencer Creek 72cm) but before the weekenders could scrape it down.

As far as evaluating terrain in fringe ski regions is concerned, I think James' benchmarks of 4 tiers in Northeast ski quality are very useful. Nearly every area in James' Tier 2 is at least 2,000 vertical feet, and only a couple of "Supertrails" at Thredbo meet that standard. All of the other places are under 1,400 vertical, which would put them squarely in the Catskills/Tier 3 category. I'd contend the Aussie areas are better than that because they are partially above tree line for wide open varied skiing when snow cover is adequate. That's why quoted acreage for Buller, Hotham, Falls Creek and Thredbo is in the 800 range, which would be more James' Tier 2. Perisher combined 4 similar sized areas (Perisher, Smiggins, Guthega and Blue Cow) to a total acreage of 3,000 but the vertical is a modest 1,164 feet.

With regard to snow, I'd hazard a guess of well inferior to Northeast Tier 2. ChrisC's Powderhounds source cites no major Aussie area with more than 27% snowmaking coverage. That wouldn't be competitive with Big Bear or many places in the Catskills either. I wrote an Inside Tracks article in 1998 after my 1997 trip, where I thought Aussie skiing had some similarity to SoCal. Perhaps that is also true with respect to water availability for snowmaking.

Skiing in Australia is expensive

I noticed that in 1997 and by sbooker's comments it's worse now.

Why would you fly to Australia in its winter to ski on some small, inconsistently snowy hill? Especially when you have New Zealand nearby.

That's what I told Patrick in 2018. But Patrick got lucky and avoided the scenario of marginal coverage and limited terrain. Since 1954 the Spencer's Creek snow plot near Perisher exceeds 200cm at all in only 41% of seasons and for an average of 3 weeks. It met that standard during all of Patrick's 2018 trip and one week of his 2022 trip. By contrast Patrick was in New Zealand in 2016, which per locals was the worst ever season in South Island's Canterbury region (Mt. Hutt, Porter's and the club fields).

 

[Sbooker]

Skiing in Australia was never really on my radar. Why would you fly to Australia in its winter to ski on some small, inconsistently snowy hill? Especially when you have New Zealand nearby.

So I started looking into it a bit recently - out of curiosity. Sounds rather unfun and financial extortion. My research is cursory, but just reading from the Aussie Powderhound website....it sounds like everything I dislike about Tahoe without any of the upsides.

About Mt. Buller:

• Mt Buller is ridiculously crowded on weekends with weekend warriors and sightseers. You’ll need the patience of a saint as you queue to get chains, wait to drive through the mountain gate and up the mountain, wait to get on a bus from the car park, get equipment rentals, purchase a lift pass, join the logjam to use the restroom, and this is before you even get a chance to stand in a chair lift queue. You’ll also need to do a lot of waiting in order to leave the mountain.
• For those staying overnight, you not only have to pay for resort entry and overnight parking, but an expensive taxi to take you to your accommodation. The wait times for these taxis can be very long.
• Skiing in Australia is expensive, but Mt Buller potentially takes the cake on emptying your wallet.
• Australian skiing is not renowned for snow quality or quantity, but Mt Buller generally has the most problems with consistent snow cover of the major Australian ski resorts. Mt Buller receives less snowfall, and a significant part of the ski resort has a very sunny aspect. Often there are large parts of the terrain that are not open due to inadequate snow.
• Buller is renowned for frequent foggy weather, and as the top of many of the lifts converge in an open treeless area, it’s easy to get very disoriented in low visibility.

Mt Buller

Mt Buller Ski Resort is within an easy day trip from Melbourne. See the Mount Buller review for the pros and cons of the skiing and snowboarding, and other facets of Mt Buller.

www.powderhounds.com

I had no idea about the cumbersome parking and lodging fees. Is this true?

Now I understand why you see so many Aussies in Japan, Whistler, Europe, etc. Perhaps cheaper and a lot more enjoyment.

It’s true.
Having said that I have had some great days on snow while staying in Jindabyne and driving to Thredbo and Perisher.
My personal experience (luck) has been snow conditions in Australia have been just as good as NZ.
Lodging costs are far higher now than before Covid so the fun to dollar factor has diminished a lot.
Now you can see why I spend the time and money to ski overseas.

Edit. If you fly to Australia to ski in our winter you can also check out the Great Barrier Reef and North Queensland rainforests and Barramundi/offshore fishing when it’s at its best. Typically you’ll get max temps about 80 in the dead of winter. Best month to visit would be August for best snow base and even warmer temps in the tropics.

 

[Sbooker]

A few rare random pics that I have Australian skiing.

 

[ChrisC]

Sounds like skiing in the mid-atlantic US, which I did for 50 years. You ski what you have to ski. Don't know how far most Australian ski areas are from major urban areas, but at least in the mid-A they were close enough that you could take strategic mid-week days off, avoid weekends, while cherry picking for decent conditions and skiing when the mtns were deserted.

I have done all the majors of Mid-Atlantic skiing growing for a brief minute in the WashDC region and consulting work projects afterward, and no weekend at Whitetail, Liberty, Massanutten, etc is that unpleasant - even after a rare 12" Nor' Easter.

And Snowshoe does not charge you to park up on its ridge / 'Island in the Sky'...then force you into cabs to get get to your lodging. Sounds like Australian internment camps.

 

[ChrisC]

Chris' OP here is definitely and I suspect we'll be hearing from sbooker soon

I am curious how it works down there. The parking fees, cabs to villages, etc. just sound very foreign.

Skiing through Gum Trees looks a bit exotic.

And looking at the Perisher trail map....the place is quite large.

 

[ChrisC]

It’s true.
Having said that I have had some great days on snow while staying in Jindabyne and driving to Thredbo and Perisher.
My personal experience (luck) has been snow conditions in Australia have been just as good as NZ.
Lodging costs are far higher now than before Covid so the fun to dollar factor has diminished a lot.
Now you can see why I spend the time and money to ski overseas.

Where do you usually ski and/or fly to when heading to the ski mountains of Australia? Sydney, Canberra?

Looks like fun skiing if not extreme.

I took up Telemark skiing while on the East Coast to add variety - a free heel in the bumps is challenging.

Edit. If you fly to Australia to ski in our winter you can also check out the Great Barrier Reef and North Queensland rainforests and Barramundi/offshore fishing when it’s at its best. Typically you’ll get max temps about 80 in the dead of winter. Best month to visit would be August for best snow base and even warmer temps in the tropics.

I have done the Great Barrier Reef via a liveaboard for 4.5 days/4 nights out of Airlie Beach. I loved it! Now feel very lucky a scuba-focused friend picked Airlie Beach base since we did not see any other boats out there, the reef was very healthy with no bleaching (slightly cooler waters south?), unlike Cairns no boats can day trip out there which limits crowds, and we stopped in the Whitsunday Islands for final night/day. Beautiful!

However, I did not see anything else outside a couple of days in Sydney (Opera House, Bridge, Bondi/Manly/others, bats), so would take the chance to see Melbourne/Blue Hills/wineries/etc.

 

[Sbooker]

I am curious how it works down there. The parking fees, cabs to villages, etc. just sound very foreign.

Skiing through Gum Trees looks a bit exotic.

And looking at the Perisher trail map....the place is quite large.

The parking depends on the ski hill. At Thredbo there is no charge for day parking. Same with Mt Buller. The catch is there is National Park Entry fees ($55 per car). That’s a bit like the fee to enter Banff National Park.

The Victoria resorts have an ‘over snow transport’ fee. You park in the parking lot. Then the taxi takes you to the very expensive on snow accommodation. I have never bent to that rort as I stay in a valley town and drive up for the day.

The NSW resorts do not have the ‘over snow transport’ thing. Perisher has a parking fee though I believe.

Perisher is large. But very samey. And flatter than Thredbo. I think Thredbo is a much better hill.

Skiing through snow gums is indeed unique. One of my wife’s photos below. I don’t do the Instagram thing.

 

[Sbooker]

Where do you usually ski and/or fly to when heading to the ski mountains of Australia? Sydney, Canberra?

I usually fly from Brisbane to Canberra. Then grab a car.
I have just booked a flight for the end of August to Melbourne. If it looks like decent conditions I will ski. If not I’ll drive the Great Ocean Road or hike in the Grampians.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Edit. If you fly to Australia to ski in our winter you can also check out the Great Barrier Reef and North Queensland rainforests and Barramundi/offshore fishing when it’s at its best.

I have done the Great Barrier Reef via a liveaboard for 4.5 days/4 nights out of Airlie Beach.

We did a 4-day liveaboard out of Cairns to Osprey Reef and Lizard Island in November 2012. On water activities are good most of the year, maybe except during peak rainy season January-March. Liz suggested Top End (Darwin, Kakadu) on that trip and I said no way with the weather up there. That's where you want to go in the dead of winter, and also Alice Springs, Uluru. So that's what we did in July 2019, as all of those places are unpleasantly hot 8-9 months of the year. That was my only southern winter trip with no skiing. We probably will ski after the July 22, 2028 eclipse as Liz has never skied in either Oz or NZ.

 

[ChrisC]

With regard to snow, I'd hazard a guess of well inferior to Northeast Tier 2. ChrisC's Powderhounds source cites no major Aussie area with more than 27% snowmaking coverage. That wouldn't be competitive with Big Bear or many places in the Catskills either.

The Powderhounds are back in Australia and seem to heavily prefer Hotham. Even finding some low tide wind-loaded powder.

Picqued my curiousity...

 

[Tony Crocker]

I recall Patrick spoke favorably of Hotham. This is very early in the season for off piste skiing in Australia.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Chris' OP here is definitely

It seemed to work -- we're having an actual discussion! Patrick took some outstanding pix on that 2018 trip. I would've noticed more of them if they weren't posted on Instagram.

 

[ChrisC]

I would've noticed more of them if they weren't posted on Instagram.

I could not do all the links, but what I saw looked good. Quite good in some pics.

 

[ChrisC]

The catch is there is National Park Entry fees ($55 per car). That’s a bit like the fee to enter Banff National Park.

That's a high entrance fee. US National Parks max out at $30 per park with an $80 yearly pass.

Perisher is large. But very samey. And flatter than Thredbo. I think Thredbo is a much better hill.

Assume that Thredbo is your favorite?

 

[Patrick]

Australia....

Here are my impressions after my quick 2018 trip - as written on the Australian ski forum.

I totally had a blast. Scenery, terrain, etc. When the snow is present, Australia has nothing to be ashamed of terrain wise. Maybe not in the league with the big World ski areas, but not far off the ones in NZ. More later, trying to plan the next few days.
I just posted some more IG posts.

Very quick and honest impression (note, Saturday’s weather at Thredbo might have limited my perception. Although the Charlotte Pass Poma is out of service, I got a good sense of the terrain).

Best variety: Perisher
Best steeps: Hotham
Best big mountain runs: Thredbo
Best family/beginner (meaning something for everyone in a family of different skills): Falls Creek
Best small with everything to have fun: Buller
Best views, calm and classic feel: Charlotte Pass
Best Terrain Parks: Perisher and Falls Creek

Basically what I did in 2018. Direct flight from Vancouver to Melbourne. Melbourne is about a 3 hour drive to the closer serious area, Mount Buller.

Did a few touristy stuff around Melbourne for 2-3 days then drove off to the mountains.
Day 1: Landing and driving along the Great Ocean Road.
Day 2: Great Ocean Road and back to Melbourne.
Day 3: Melbourne then off drove to Mansfield
.
Day 4 - Ski 1: Shuttle from Mansfield to Buller and back then move to Bright
Day 5 - Ski 2: Shuttle from Bright to Hotham and back then move to Mount Beauty
Day 6 - Ski 3; Shuttle from Mt. Beauty to Falls Creek then back.
Day 7: Drive from Mt. Beauty to Jindabyne
Day 8: No skiing - sleeping in Thredbo Village
Day 9 - Ski 4: Thredbo then back to sleep in Jindabyne
Day 10 - Ski 5: Charlotte Pass - over the snow cat access to resort from Perisher.
Day 11-12 - Ski 6-7: ski Perisher vast terrain. Historically multiple ski areas.
.
day 12: After that last day in Perisher I drove to Canberra.
day 13: Canberra to coast Batemans Bay.
day 14: coastal drive to Sydney
day 15-16: 2 days in Sydney before flight home.

Skiing in Victoria versus New South Wales
Daily coast: to access to resorts you either have to pay.
Road access to Victoria resorts costs around $58 AUS.
Driving thru the National parks (New South Wales) cost around $29 AUS/24hrs. You can access Perisher and Charlotte Pass with the Funicular which saves you the park fee, but need to pay extra for the Funicular.

And you need to have chains in car regardless of weather.

Strategy for 2018 and last Fall's trip was to ski in Victoria and would sleep in closest town to resorts which cheaper lodging. Buses to the hill were about $60 AUS. The only exception was last season when the Hotham wasn't running. I can't remember if it ran at all (pandemic) or because of late season midweek.

Last season's trip was late September/early October to catch a few of the last Midnight Oil shows of their last tour ever.

Flew into Sydney then drove 900km to Bright to ski one day at Hotham the next day before going a bit further and get 2 days at Mount Buller from Mansfield.

2022 Trip:
19 Sept: drive from Sydney airport to Bright
20 Sept: Ski Hotham
21-22 Sept: Ski Buller
23 Sept: drive from Mansfield to Jindabyne
24-25-26 Sept: Ski Thredbo
27 Sept: Canberra to Sydney
28 Sept: Midnight Oil in Sydney
29 Sept: drive back to Jindabyne
30 Sept: Ski Perisher
1 Oct: Ski Thredbo
2 Oct: drive to Sydney
3 Oct: Final Midnight Oil show in Sydney
4-7 Oct: Sydney, Blue Mountains and Beaches.

Both these trips were reserved about 3 weeks before my departure.

 

[Patrick]

Sounds like skiing in the mid-atlantic US, which I did for 50 years. You ski what you have to ski. Don't know how far most Australian ski areas are from major urban areas, but at least in the mid-A they were close enough that you could take strategic mid-week days off, avoid weekends, while cherry picking for decent conditions and skiing when the mtns were deserted.

I've never skied in the Mid-Atlantic states, but if there is snow (there was on both my trips), terrain variety and steepness is the best places on par with the best in the East.

For mega pass holders: Hotham, Falls Creek, Perisher (Epic) and Buller and Thredbo (Ikon).

 

[Sbooker]

That's a high entrance fee. US National Parks max out at $30 per park with an $80 yearly pass.



Assume that Thredbo is your favorite?

Out of Perisher and Thredbo it is. Very much so.

https://cdn.thredbo.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/16112228/Thredbo-Winter-Trail-Map.pdf

The area lookers right of Black Sallees restaurant has some pitch to it. There's plenty of vertical off Kosciusko Express lift and the basin area at the top left of the trail map has nearly always got good snow.
Our hills obviously don't compare to those in the west of North America or Europe and we get about 1/10th of the snow that most hills in Japan do but I've had some really fun days at Thredbo. (This is a factor of me and my family being pretty much permanent intermediate skiers and living a long way from snow. I'm elated any day I'm on skis no matter how lame the terrain or how low tide the conditions. Unlike some I'm satisfied to ski groomers all day if the off trail conditions aren't skiable).

Incidentally Thredbo is memorable for me. Prior to 2008 I skied a total of 4 separate 'weeks' in my life - over the space of 11 years. 3 of those ski trips were at Thredbo and one at Perisher. I was at Thredbo the day Princess Diana met her demise and I was also there when the September 11, 2001 attacks happened. They actually shut the hill down the morning of September 11. Everyone was in the pubs getting updates on the goings on in NYC.