it's all relative , i suppose

[joegm]

what is truth?...how many philosophers and regulars old shmucks alike throughout the centuries have pondered this question.

after a fat easter meal i find myself sitting here surfing around, finding seemingly endeless contradictions abounding ....is one man's truth another man's crock?... who the heck knows?

from another web site regarding a ski report from today sunday, at Killington...the fact that it is K has no bearing at all on my point... it's about what is real and what is not. what is believeable and what is not...and how sometimes , there is really no way to know

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject:

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Skiing was freakin' awesome today . .





and in the same thread another take from a different person :



Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject:

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Skiing very so-so.




i think i'll keep this glaring example in mind when the end of the season assessments start pouring in ...

what is truth?????? :?

 

[riverc0il]

Knowing the dispositions of the reporters is always important. All reports are reported relative to the reporters own experiences. I have reported several so-so days at Jay this season because I did not have at least 6" of untracked powder. The average skier says "boo hoo who cares" and has an awesome day ripping the groomers and skiing the ice hard bumps. Folks following FTO probably can read into my reports but the average skier seeing my Jay report and skiing the same day as me probably has vastly different experiences. Same with salida's and powderfreak's reports from Mansfield. On the flip side, those same folks report a few inches of extremely tracked up loose powder that they didn't start skiing until 10:30 as a super powder day. And then you get varying stuff in between. Similarly, joegm's definition of great bumps is probably far elevated from that of the average skier. Some folks think spring corn bumps is the hardest thing to ski and prefer rock hard groomers. Hell, I didn't even like powder until six or seven years ago.

It is definitely all relative and just like with gear reviews you need to read into the report and know the biases of the reporter.

 

[kmartshopper]

I think the guy at Sugarbush has a copyright on the phrase "it doesn't get much better than this", and gets some royalties every time he says it. This is my first year paying attention to the Bush, and I'd be pretty P.O'd if MRG wasn't close enough to just use their reports and ignore the sugarbush site.

 

[joegm]

yeah....i hear that....there has been a lot hype about this year that just isn't true....things are not always as they appear to be that's for sure.... and how about sugarbush putting a spring pass on sale with a teaser that they spun in may last year and then one week later announcing they are going to stop spinning on april 20th ( in this alleged " epic" snow year ) ...that is outrageous and ridiculous... they ought to be ashamed of themselves if that's how it plays out....we have all been tricked into believing that late april is now the reasonable " late season"....it used to be memorial day...what is truth???? :roll:

 

[Tony Crocker]

Late April is about the best that can be expected for skiable natural snowpack in the East, outside of the Presidentials and the Chic-Chocs.

An expensive stockpile season-long snowmaking effort is needed to do any better for lift service.

The Vermont chart I made last summer does not bump the numbers up for deep powder days. Yet it is almost certain this season will rank second to 2000-01 in the past decade.

The key was the big December, which was actually a bit better than December 2000. The number of powder/packed powder weekends stands at 8, far behind the 13 of 2000-01 but still in second place. The base is deep enough that during the weekends after rain/thaws this season Stowe/Sugarbush are still 90+% open, with the other northern Vermont areas generally 80+%. In more normal years more trails get washed out and have to be rebuilt.

Farther north in Quebec this year probably has been as good as 2000-01.

With regard to the online reports, we do know the reporters pretty well here on FTO and can thus make accurate judgments from them. I have no doubt of the validity of the Riverc0il/powderfreak/salida reports, but they are not representative of eastern skiers less well situated in terms of location or flexibility.

 

[sszycher]

Just my quick 2 cents:

I think different skiers can have totally different - but valid - points of views depeding on the skier's taste & skill, especially on a wknd like the one we just had in VT.

For instance, if you can an average intermeidate skier who doesn't go off trail much, (s)he may may say that all the snow had been blown off the trails this wknd, creating very so-so conditions. If you ask a different skier - who is able go off-trail and hit powder filled glades - (s)he will say how great it was.

 

[Patrick]

Farther north in Quebec this year probably has been as good as 2000-01.

I would say this is the best winter in one generation north of the St.Lawrence valley.

Again percentage means nothing, Tremblant has a fixed date of April 13th...they apparently decided to open the following weekend (you know it's good when they give us another weekend). Ste-Anne is sticking it's fixed date of April 27th. Odds are that these places will close lifts (again this year) regardless of the snowpack which will affect that percentage of open trails.

Alpine skiing closing on April 27
About the alpine skiing, the direction of the Mont Sainte-Anne explained that the slopes will be accessible until 27 April, the closing date usually scheduled. The station cited the chairlifts maintenance to explain why the season could not be extended.

Source:
Press Release about Extended season at MSA (cross-country and alpine).

BTW...
Ottawa airport is that 421cm (record is 441). Quebec City has beaten in early March it's all time record of 478cm set in 1965.
Tremblant is at 561cm
MSA: 687cm
Massif du Sud: 836cm
Le Massif: 843cm

Odds are that they'll still be skiing in Ottawa if the lifts are still spinning.

An expensive stockpile season-long snowmaking effort is needed to do any better for lift service.

I think that Geoff has addressed this point here. LINK The main issue as observed in the Great White North is driven by the lack of skiers, not lack of snow.

 

[Tony Crocker]

The main issue as observed in the Great White North is driven by the lack of skiers, not lack of snow.

This is true nearly every year in most western destination resorts. In New England we've had 2 documented big seasons recently (2001 with much more natural snow than this year, and 2007 with a record April) where the natural snow plus normal (not stockpiled) snowmaking still mostly ran out by the beginning of May.

We do know that Quebec's latitude often preserves snow better than New England's slightly higher altitude. So given the record year up there, it will be interesting to see how much snow survives into May. We know that the frankontour types will be out there skiing and documenting it as long as it lasts.

If a mom-and-pop place like Baldy can stay open in big years here to May 22 or June 7, you would think someone in Quebec would consider it. And remember, Quebec and California do have roughly the same annual skier visit totals, so Quebec is not Montana in terms of a local population base.

 

[Patrick]

The main issue as observed in the Great White North is driven by the lack of skiers, not lack of snow.

This is true nearly every year in most western destination resorts. In New England we've had 2 documented big seasons recently (2001 with much more natural snow than this year, and 2007 with a record April) where the natural snow plus normal (not stockpiled) snowmaking still mostly ran out by the beginning of May.

Spring from the recent years have been any and hot. Lack of skiers was mostly the unique reason for closure prior to mid-April when I was in the 80s-90s. I agree that since then, the equation has changed somewhat (snow doesn't last as long and Spring are warmer). However if you see any ski area close prior to mid-April North of the St.Lawrence this year, it will be based on economics.

We do know that Quebec's latitude often preserves snow better than New England's slightly higher altitude. So given the record year up there, it will be interesting to see how much snow survives into May.

My guess that if Tremblant, MSSI or MSA doesn't do it (they seem to indicate that they won't due to schedule or maintenance), odds are small than a smaller player will. However there is a wishful thinking from someone on Zski that Massif du Sud might go for it. Well see.

We know that the frankontour types will be out there skiing and documenting it as long as it lasts.

Don't know if he's going to continue his craziness this Spring.

If a mom-and-pop place like Baldy can stay open in big years here to May 22 or June 7, you would think someone in Quebec would consider it. And remember, Quebec and California do have roughly the same annual skier visit totals, so Quebec is not Montana in terms of a local population base.

Quebec and California might have the same annual skier visit, BUT Quebec entire population is only 7 millions (Montreal 3.5, Quebec 700k, Ottawa-Gatineau 1.1). So Massif du Sud or other in the Quebec City might try, but don't have a big base to draw from. I'm curious to see what will happen locally. I've heard something regarding Fortune and Edelweiss at our Masters Final on Saturday.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Total population of CA may be way more than QC, but obviously a much higher proportion of the population in QC skis. I suspect at least 3/4 of skier visits in both are from within the state/province. And the QC ski areas are closer to the population centers for daytrips than the Sierra is to SF or LA.

With 85 ski areas in Quebec, I will not be surprised if a couple step up, presuming the snow is still there. But once it stops freezing overnight the snow disappears quickly.

 

[Patrick]

Total population of CA may be way more than QC, but obviously a much higher proportion of the population in QC skis. I suspect at least 3/4 of skier visits in both are from within the state/province. And the QC ski areas are closer to the population centers for daytrips than the Sierra is to SF or LA.

With 85 ski areas in Quebec, I will not be surprised if a couple step up, presuming the snow is still there. But once it stops freezing overnight the snow disappears quickly.

If I'm not mistaken, the population of California is the size of Canada. Quebec's skiing public is divided by roughly 85 areas (many of them near Montreal). Yes, location of ski areas are directly related to market and not necessarily to size or snow on mountains (ex: Laurentians small hills versus Gaspe Peninsula). The problem is also that most diehards have season passes, so the ski areas wouldn't make that much more in day ticket sales (sounds familiar to the Kmart discussion of the past).

Who are the biggest players in term of visits? Tremblant, MSSI (5 areas in the Laurentians) and RCR (MSA and Stoneham) have already stated (not clearly for MSS) that it will close in April. Bromont has become a big player (cheap passes), but it's in the Townships (South of St.Lawrence) and receives less snow than it's neighbours.

I'm hoping that someone steps up, but a lot of people here have winter fatigued, even among some skiers. :shock:

But once it stops freezing overnight the snow disappears quickly.

I know it doesn't say much for the rest of the Spring, but nights are around at -15c/-20c in the last few days, daytime high is maybe a couple of degrees above freezing in town. So the snow isn't melting fast for the moment, all this can change of course.