Which is a better ski area? Squaw Valley or Jackson Hole Mountain Resort? Show your love! Vote at http://bit.ly/VEEhYJ and share this so your friends can vote too!
Jackson Hole vs. Squaw Valley
- Thread starter xpatmatt
- Start date
Interesting the OP is from Canada and the survey is for US areas only.
Nonetheless the Squaw vs. Jackson comparison is an important one for advanced/expert skiers. To spend a whole season I'd take my chances with Squaw due to Jackson's chronically difficult snow after mid-February. But for a peak powder day I'd definitely rather be at Jackson.
Nonetheless the Squaw vs. Jackson comparison is an important one for advanced/expert skiers. To spend a whole season I'd take my chances with Squaw due to Jackson's chronically difficult snow after mid-February. But for a peak powder day I'd definitely rather be at Jackson.
I may not be qualified to comment since its been 20 years since I've skied Squaw, but I think I would go with Sqauw by a hair. Skiing the Hobacks on a powder day or a cold jan day is something legends are made of. That said I do think that Jacksons expert terrian in bounds is a bit overrated though, if it wasn't for that nasty little coulior under the tram then it would be knocked down quite a few pegs.
Squaw has better exposure, a bit more snow, a better town/vibe (personal opinion), more in bounds extreme terrain (i.e. palisades/KT22).
Jackson has better vert, less powder pressure, better backcountry gate option (not super sure about this but just a guess) , and an away from it all feel.
For the expert skier I still rank both behind: Alta, Snowbird, Silverton, Telluride, and depending on snow year Taos.
Tony- Is there a site or data that ranks average pitch for entire ski areas? I read recently that, for ex: Snowbird has an overall steeper pitch then Jackson by more then a few degrees.
Squaw has better exposure, a bit more snow, a better town/vibe (personal opinion), more in bounds extreme terrain (i.e. palisades/KT22).
Jackson has better vert, less powder pressure, better backcountry gate option (not super sure about this but just a guess) , and an away from it all feel.
For the expert skier I still rank both behind: Alta, Snowbird, Silverton, Telluride, and depending on snow year Taos.
Tony- Is there a site or data that ranks average pitch for entire ski areas? I read recently that, for ex: Snowbird has an overall steeper pitch then Jackson by more then a few degrees.
You may find this useful: http://3dskimaps.com
Averages are not particularly useful for this kind of information. Jackson really stands out among those maps for the the long fall lines over most of the ski area terrain at 30+ degrees (pink/red). There may be other places with more of the 40+ steeps (orange/yellow).
For pure coverage of steeps the high density west coast snow is optimal. Squaw offers the most of that, though Whistler/Blackcomb and Crystal Mt. are not that far behind. If you want a decent shot at skiing that kind of terrain in lift served powder AltaBird first and Jackson second are the best options IMHO.
Averages are not particularly useful for this kind of information. Jackson really stands out among those maps for the the long fall lines over most of the ski area terrain at 30+ degrees (pink/red). There may be other places with more of the 40+ steeps (orange/yellow).
The latter 2 areas (and we should also include Crested Butte) are severely flawed for consistent steep skiing due to averaging less than 300 inches of very low water content snow. This means that the "yellow/orange" terrain is often not skiable until February and it's extremely rare to get deep enough powder on that terrain not to be hitting bottom. That's why many people like having those ridges at Taos, top of Gold Hill (Highlands Bowl is in the same category) require hiking, so the powder can accumulate over several typical small storms and not be skied down to the base after each one. Silverton falls in the same category for enforced skier density, and as before I think Silverton is more properly compared to snowcat skiing due to very low skier density, required guiding, price and much lower than typical lift served vertical per day.TRam":39mlomox said:
For pure coverage of steeps the high density west coast snow is optimal. Squaw offers the most of that, though Whistler/Blackcomb and Crystal Mt. are not that far behind. If you want a decent shot at skiing that kind of terrain in lift served powder AltaBird first and Jackson second are the best options IMHO.
I've been to both a few times and neither compares to Alta/Bird for snow quality. Squaw is huge though but I didn't like their trail system..or lack of one more like it. They only mapped lifts so it was hard to figure out where you where..usualy standing next to a small cliff sign. I don't know if that has changed. Just not a fan of the Tahoe area.. We had a lot of fun at Jackson but found the snow a lot better at Targhee. Although..just checked the stats and Jackson and Alta are tied..exactly at 197 inches for the season so far..hmmmmm
The apples-to-apples comparison for Jackson is the mid-mountain total of 154 inches shown in smaller print here: http://www.jacksonhole.com/weather-snow-report.html .kingslug":2ewsepsh said:
The upper snow plot was put in when the Bridger gondola was built in 1998 and gets a lot more snow than the long term site (I have data back to 1971) at 8,250 feet. Anyone who has been to Jackson and seen the actual topography knows that there is about 3x as much skiable terrain below 8,250 as above. At Alta there is probably somewhat more terrain above the Collins snowplot than below it.
Does anyplace, really? Jackson/Targhee's snow is of similar water content to Alta/Bird, so in terms of powder days the quality is similar with frequency about equal at Targhee and about 3/4 as often at Jackson. As noted by MarcC Targhee is moderately worse in snow preservation and Jackson severely deficient relative to AltaBird. It the ~80% of the time when there is NOT fresh powder that you would MUCH rather be at Alta/Bird than Jackson.kingslug":2ewsepsh said:
There are a lot of lifts and most of the terrain is quite open to view. One should pay very careful attention to the "guinea pigs" (or as Craig Morris at Fernie calls them "sacrificial lambs") skiing the slopes within view as you're riding the lifts. There are places where you might need local guidance, but for a huge mountain with a lot of steeps I think Squaw is easier than most to figure out.kingslug":2ewsepsh said:
Squaw has snow preservation issues too, as altitude is low. It was a mess in early December with mostly rain from a 4-day storm but the lower mountain has since received 8 feet of snow. Spring skiing at Squaw is usually much better than at Jackson with a good chunk of north facing terrain plus a wide range of other exposures to follow the sun around during the day.
Unfortunately I didn't have the best of times at Tahoe...first time wet most of the week, second time after a 5 foot dump, thaw and super hard feeze...Squaw is not a fun place to be when its completely frozen...I found Heavenly..boring..maybe Kirkwood someday. Just never seem to make it past Utah though...
Within Tahoe Kirkwood, Mt. Rose and the upper tier at Heavenly are all above 8,000 feet and relatively unlikely to see rain or midwinter melt/freezes. Squaw is probably the worst option under refrozen conditions.MarcC":2d65emq9 said:
But here in the east...we make it .."fun"...over there it was downright frightening, they groom some steep ass stuff. There was a run off the K-22 chair that I didn't get to but watched a few go down it..steepest groomed thing I have ever seen...and yes there is a lot to do around the area...Marc_C":2edgzbzg said:
](*,) ](*,) ](*,) Is there another source of snow data who even looks at deviations??? Percent of days, weeks with fresh powder, etc??? How often do I refer to Sierra weather volatility vs. other North American snow regions???MarcC":1n59lgsq said:
I've seen rain to the top of Heavenly too, on my second trip in 1980. Nonetheless it's rare and and the storms like this past Nov. 29 - Dec. 2 with snow levels between 7,000 and 9,000 are more frequent. After those you have something to work with at Heavenly, and Mt. Rose and Kirkwood can actually be good, while Squaw will be a disaster.
Something I'm trying to avoid...getting harder to keep the pounds off...I think its safe to say I've skied in every kind of crap weather there is here..but I am getting more selective..you guys have spoiled me...and since I now spend half my season in the west, I'm no longer really an Eastern skier..more like a hybrid.. :-DMarc_C":15og1n0h said: