June Mountain, CA to shut down for 2012-13

Tough to see how that would work for Mammoth since I'd assume that selling beginner/intermediate lessons is a big revenue source for them. I'm sure Mammoth will say they're game to play nice but in the end, they want June off their balance sheet .....
In the long term Mammoth/June would be well served by beginners having a better experience at June while also decreasing congestion around Mammoth's lodges on weekends and holidays. But of course no business with Mammoth's current debt load is thinking much beyond the next quarter's cash flow.
 
Don't know if feasible, but maybe the people of June Lake can form a non-profit Foundation like they did in Ashland, Oregon to keep Mt. Ashland afloat.

The Mt. Ashland Association is a non-profit, 501(c)(3) charitable organization organized under the laws of the State of Oregon exclusively to provide educational and recreation opportunities to the members of the general public in Jackson County. The Association is governed by a volunteer Board of Directors composed of 15 individuals from all walks of life who live, work and raise families in the Rogue Valley. The Board oversees an equally diverse staff who bring years of professional ski area management, outdoor-environmental education and have earned a living working in the outdoors. Most of us ski or snowboard. All of us dedicate ourselves as model stewards of the Mt. Ashland Ski Area.

Mission Statement: The mission of the Mt. Ashland Association is to provide and
promote a quality experience in an alpine environment.

Vision Statement: The Mt. Ashland Association will remain a valued community
resource that provides recreational, educational and economic opportunities for
current and future generations.
 
Mt. Ashland is quite a distance from the next nearest ski area. I'm guessing the population base within an hour is quite a bit bigger than Mono County also.

Regional context is always key in assessing potential viability of ski areas. Not to say a creative management can't have an impact, but some businesses really have the deck stacked against them.

Mt. Waterman is another such area, its obstacles being different from June's. I am strongly in favor that both of those areas survive, and there are circumstances where each would be my area of choice to ski. But I am not optimistic in either case and I think I know both the SoCal and Eastern Sierra markets quite well after 35 years of skiing the regions.
 
egieszl":2txnksr8 said:
That's nonsense.

An $8 million project, 100% financed at 15-years with a rate of 5% would require an annual payment in the sum of $760,000 or about $63,334/month. I'm making an assumption that you depreciate a ski lift over a period of 15-years and I'm probably a little low on the rate as well. However, it would seem to me that Mono County and local government might be willing to step in and help finance a project like this now. It doesn't take a lot of tickets to generate $760,000 in revenue. For the average resort that would be less than 10,000 tickets.
Sadly, this level of analysis seems to be typical for your "contributions" here.

As Tony pointed out, it's a bit foolish to assume a 5% interest rate when the parent company is borrowing at over 13%. But let's assume they get a sweetheart deal somehow at 10%. Let's further assume, as June's own MDP did, that the loan amortizes over a 10 year period. This combination of assumptions implies annual payments of $1.3M. Of course, headline ticket prices are pretty irrelevant, as it is rather the yield per skier that results in actual revenues. Per http://www.monocounty.ca.gov/junelake/documents/June Mountain Financial History.pdf, June's yield generally hovered around $50/skier visit through 2005-2006. Let's be generous and assume they got that up to $60 more recently. But there's another step.

You then need to figure out how much of that $60 in revenue falls to the bottom line, and is therefore available for paying interest back to the lender. Of course, there is generally not much in the way of marginal cost that is attributable to any single skier visit, at least not for the lift ticket. That said, yield encompasses ancillary items like food, lessons, rentals etc.. where the relationship to marginal costs is much more concrete. Regardless, let's say thay the $60 yield generates $50 of gross profit per visitor for a healthy 83% margin.

Now let's circle back to that $1.3M annual interest payment. At $50 yield per skier visit, you are looking at a requirement for over 26,000 incremental skier visits above and beyond whatever June needs to reach break-even on its current baseline. That's a minimum increase in skier visits of 50%, and that's before you consider other incremental expenses. A detatch lift brings with it substantial increases in cash operating costs for utilities and maintenance vs. the J1 or any other fixed grip lift. Money also needs to be found to actually market the mountain (budget of close to $0 in recent years), or to build desperately needed bag storage and skeletal skier services at the base.

Basically, an $8M gondola is precisely the LAST thing that June Mtn needs at this juncture. That sort of thinking represents a bankrupt, unimaginitive philosophy that would have us believe there is but a single route to solvency in the ski business. There are any number of successful small areas around the country that can put the lie to that notion. In conclusion, please stop sucking.
 
June and our country are the same. More going out than coming in. So how do we fix it? Well we add more debt. That should fix it.
 
Nice analysis by Mike Bernstein. I've taken my fair share of potshots at the MRA, but June's chances of survival under the MRA model are far better than with egieszl's debt-financed gondola. A symbiotic relationship with Mammoth is still the best bet IMHO. There was a recent quote from Rusty that he "expected June to operate in 2013-14." This makes me think that Rusty can run Mammoth/June as he pleases when Mammoth meets its $27 million debt service and that the banks call the shots when it doesn't, as in 2011-12. Snow history tells us that Mammoth probably meets the debt service ~85% of the time, and I'd guess 2/3 of the time with a considerable safety margin. If Mammoth has a normal or better year in 2012-13, perhaps some of that margin should be kept in reserve for the next drought season to avoid the bank micromanagement we've seen this year.
 
reefuss12":8blfhs3n said:
June and our country are the same. More going out than coming in. So how do we fix it? Well we add more debt. That should fix it.
This is a big derail, but finance does not work that way. There is a fundamental difference when your debt is denominated in currency that you control and print.
 
Skiace":1u3twnc7 said:
reefuss12":1u3twnc7 said:
June and our country are the same. More going out than coming in. So how do we fix it? Well we add more debt. That should fix it.
This is a big derail, but finance does not work that way. There is a fundamental difference when your debt is denominated in currency that you control and print.

I sensed some sarcasm from reefuss12 that I guess you didn't.
 
Admin":2154l3o2 said:
Skiace":2154l3o2 said:
reefuss12":2154l3o2 said:
June and our country are the same. More going out than coming in. So how do we fix it? Well we add more debt. That should fix it.
This is a big derail, but finance does not work that way. There is a fundamental difference when your debt is denominated in currency that you control and print.

I sensed some sarcasm from reefuss12 that I guess you didn't.
Oh the sarcasm was loud and clear, you misunderstood my post.

He sarcastically said, "more debt will fix June, just like it'll fix the country!" Since it is evident that debt service is a major issue for MMSA and the June situation by extension, he is of course implying that it makes no sense to pile yet more debt on top of that. Likewise, he is implying that it's equally absurd for the US government to take on more debt to fix our current economic issues. My point was simply that this is a false equivalence because sovereign debt issued in a currency controlled by the issuer of said debt is fundamentally different from private debt of an individual or corporation. But that's a topic for another time.
 
I've read enough to think that this has been Rusty's intention for some time. But I'm surprised the creditors let him make that kind of announcement this early.
 
The Forest Service issued the noncompliance letter to MMSA in late October. My guess is that Rusty took a judicious gamble promising on Nov. 7 to reopen for 2013-14 in order to respond to that letter. The snow over the past month IMHO virtually assures that MMSA will comfortably cover its debt service this season, so Rusty will have the discretion to reopen June next season without interference from the banks.

With regard to the closed sign, I'm guessing that is paranoia over potential liability. When I wanted to ski on Mammoth in summer for ski streaks, I was allowed to sign a waiver and use the gondola in 2005 but denied in 2011. However, since it is Forest Service land I could and did use AT gear to ski 8/31 and 9/1 in 2011. My guess is that backcountry skiers at June this winter will not be harassed unless they are disturbing the lifts/facilities in some way. I would much prefer that the sign say that explicitly though, and it would certainly be better for PR in an understandably upset community.

With regard to sale of June I remain skeptical that it can be run independently and compete with Mammoth. I still believe the best hope is for Mammoth to direct much of its beginner/family business over there. Rusty has made comments in that direction, but time will tell.
 
Mammoth Forum":3hdikwob said:
Rusty Gregory met with the Mono Co. supervisors today [April 9]. I attended at the teleconference room in Mammoth. Here' s a condensed version of what Rusty talked about. June Mt. will open this summer for at least wedding and special events, Like the Bill Walton bike ride last summer where everyone went up J1 after the ride and had lunch and drinks. He didn't rule out being open to the public during the summer.

He stated that the lenders are off his back, Mammoth had a good year this year, and he is making the decisions now. June Mt. will be open for the 2013/2014 ski season. They are going to market the hill towards young families with an emphasis on a strong ski school for kids.

Next they are going to look for water up there, Rusty is sure they can find it. Then they will vastly improve their snow making capabilities. At the same time they are going to submit plans for a new high speed detachable lift to replace J1. He didn't say if it's going to be a quad, six pack or gondola. The new snow making and high speed detachable will be up and running for the winter of 2015/2016. He did say the detachable will cost $6 million and will be a Doppelmayr.

He said that they kicked around the idea of opening 4 days a week as opposed to 7. He said that the difference financially wasn't much and that are leaning towards being open 7 days a week.
Rusty met with NASJA members on April 10, announced June's reopening and the intention to spend $6 million to replace J1 and $5 million on snowmaking. I assumed that we were not the first to learn of this, so I found the above on Mammoth Forum.
 
I hope they don't replace Chair J1, but instead just build the new lift parallel with it. I think the redundancy is important.
 
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