killington, vt: 11.27.04

[riverc0il]

never thought i'd be paying $49 for november holiday weekend skiing at killington... boy oh boy did i need to get some turns bad this weekend! killington seemed to have by far and away the best conditions on paper and likely the only solid bumps in new england, so i pulled my insane fear of crowds together for a second and paid the man big resort holiday weekend style. i would like nothing more right now to report that it sucked; that i wasted my money and killington is offering an overpriced product and there were way to many skiers on the moutain. fortunately i can't say any of that.

got to KBL around 8:10 and snagged a near front row before the lot filled up, shuttle buses were in full effect today. people everywhere, walking up to the window i thought "i can still turn around, i haven't bought that ticket yet." i paid the man and went upstairs to get my gear on. one great thing happens when everyone else boots up in the lot, the upstairs lodge section is empty and plenty of seats all day.

wasted no time in boarding K1 and there wasn't much up top to interest me. upper GN is a throw away trail, reason was scraped up from the get go on my first run down, and rime had the guns blowing like crazy in the AM. next!

caught some rock on the side of middle GN but managed to avoid getting hit (Success!) where Mid GN meets the end of moose run was perhaps the second biggest cluster you know what i have ever witness second only to what would happen later on down below. i held on for dear life banging a right onto sweetly bumped up highline.

highline was wikked soft from run number one, too soft even. steep and decent sized bumps... pretty tight but not much for lines. i kept taking skiers right throughout the day and got lots of hop turns in. a couple novice snowboarders sideslipped the entire thing right behind me, reducing the steepest part of the trail to "frozen ground." nice guys. :roll: highline got better as the day went on and it got packed down. fantastic.

snowdon triple was stopping on average 20-30 times per lift. NO JOKE! totally not exageratting in the least. after three times on the triple, they mercifully opened up the snowdon quad. i took the poma once and witnessed the halirity that was discussed in the other thread as a snowboarder grabbed on and was LAUNCHED 5-10 feet and fell. stuborn guy won't let go! oh the humanity!!! watching that guy get dragged 20 feet up the hill before letting go made my day. right after him, another snowboarder grabbed on and looked like a pro.

up top on snowdon, mouse run was awesome for carving up some big arcs. quick PP no scraped all day, excellent. next door on upper buster bunny, things were doing good, with some small bumps near the poma. lower down my run of the day was taking skiers left on mousetrap for soft powdery bumps on the steepest pitch of the trail width. this never got old or skied off, very nice. just watch out for that intersection with GN! WHOA!

the mouse trap/GN/lower chute intersection was perhaps, no... definitely the most dangerous thing i've ever seen while skiing. thankfully K got four ambassadors to help guide traffic a bit. but MAN it was carnage. scraped to the bone and bodies flying everywhere. lower chute wasn't much better but had bumps skiers right which kept the yahoos away from me.

back at the KBL i unclicked my boots and hoofed it over to the superstar expecting skyelark to be a nice mellow and blue groomer with bumps on the side. oh man was i wrong. bump central here folks, though there wasn't much going for lines but you found a way to link the turns and make them work. every kinda bump on this trail from "save me by sideslipping on the steep part" bumps up top, to HUGE 4-5 foot bumps halfway down to soft small powdery ones down bottom. a little bit of everything and quite frankly they should have been discouraging some folks from even going up the superstar lift at all.

so to some it all up, if you could avoid great northern and lower chute (and later in the day bunny buster which got ugly), the crowds were doable. excellent high speed carvers at the top of snowdon with top notch bumps on highline, mousetrap, and to a lesser extent skyelark. i couldn't have been happier with my day.

i packed it in around 2pm due to fatigue, not boredom or crowd shock which i had expected. left home with a big full moon in my face and later the sun behind me. had them juxtaposed in my rearview and windshield heading up i89 and then had a big full moon in my face again heading home on 128. whoa, never thought i'd be saying this but props to K. in a weekend that has other ski areas pushing back opening day by a week and other resorts offering up junk for trails, K delivered pretty big today.

pics in a little while....

 

[riverc0il]

here we go with the pics. i would just like to note that most of these pics were taking around 10pm and in many cases do not reflect the actual carnage happening in the GN trails.

also would like to note, as i looked upon these beginners and novices flailing and what not, i couldn't image it being a fun experience and scenes like this are bad for killington and for the ski industry in general. ski areas really need to start thinking about the long term value of retaining skiers, not getting every single body onto a lift as possible. that may mean over emphasizing that if you can't link a parallel turn yet, maybe you should come back in december. or better yet, K should blow on snowshed from day one.

my final comment that i omitted in my trip report is in regards to the look of killington as part of the forest. it looks aweful. and no, i'm not talking about the huge sweeping boulevards of white that are treeless, i'm taking about the trees themselves. i think K went glade crazy or something. in any case, it looks really bad. i really noticed this from the superstar lift. the trees and the forest just didn't look healthy and full. it's one thing to cut a glade here and there... but man it just looks bad.

 

[Mark Renson]

or better yet, K should blow on snowshed from day one.

Yeah, good 'ol Bloodshed . That's what a Killington ski instructor used to call it.

Yeah, I went to work, today . This was even worse than the skiing at Wachusett the other morning. Damn, I'm having a compelling season, thus far.

Let's see ..... Killington JPEG #007 8) , that's what's known as "The Bowling Alley" ! But, JPEG #08 has me perplexed a bit ......it took me a while to place it, but I suspect that is from the Snowden Quad (I remember when it was a double) above the lower part of Chute. Keep in mind, I ain't familiar with these new-fangled Killington trail names. If I'm right, I recall that there was a cool on-piste mellow novice shot that went skier's left from (what I suspect is) the pictured trail and wound up at the base of the Snowden quad and it was a natural trail.

OK, here's a little quiz: where is Helter Skelter at Killington? It's a nickname (much like The Bowling Alley) for an on-piste place.

 

[riverc0il]

But, JPEG #08 has me perplexed a bit ......it took me a while to place it, but I suspect that is from the Snowden Quad (I remember when it was a double) above the lower part of Chute.

yup, i think you nailed it on the head. that was from snowdon quad looking up great northern where it merges with lower chute. couldn't believe it when i saw it, amazing that many novices on such a narrow trail all bunched together getting dumped out in what was essentially a skier hell merger.

 

[salida]

nice report, sounds like a lot of fun, lots of people though!

-porter

 

[cibit]

yeah that was a excellent report. I love how Killington says full blown snow on every open trail etc and fully groomed every trail. They say they are grooming all the trails tomorrow. Iteresting to see if someone can report tomorrow.

I actually expected worse at Killington for this early. How did the snow making look on the non open trails? Catch any glimpse of what could be open next?

Can't wait to head there for 1 month of straight skiing.

 

[riverc0il]

yea, the K web site said all trails groomed when i went too so i wouldn't expect it for today either. if they were smart they would leave those bumpers alone as those trails had the best snow on the mountain. groom steep trails and you get instant scraped with random mounds... yuck.

snow making was occuring only on open trails. looks like they were trying to keep things fresh for the holiday weekend. couldn't tell where they were gonna blow next, but all the guns up upper superstar were pointed in the ready position with hoses attached already, lower super didn't have guns ready. not sure if that means anything or not? didn't see snow making equip ready to go any where else though.

 

[Geoff]

Killington is going to have to resurface everything yet-again. I was out there at 8:00 on Sunday. Near-zero visibility, howling wind, and spitting rain. Our first ride in the box to the top was pretty scary. The lift stopped for a huge gust when we were at the top of Cascade Headwall. It was a real amusement park ride for a few minutes. Our last K1 ride of the day. The skiing surface was buttah! Nice & soft with no people. You had to ski right on the edge of the trails to get enough contrast in the fog but 'twas wonderful for linking perfect turns. We lasted until about 10:00 when our gloves soaked through completely.

They must have received a good inch of rain during the day. The weather doesn't look promising for Wednesday so I have no idea what their snowmaking strategy is going to be. If it were me, I'd blow the upper mountain and hope the Wednesday storm is snow at the higher elevations.

 

[cibit]

is it me or does K look to be behind? I mean i have seen years in the past when it has had conditions like this and they have had plenty of man made snow on trails. Are they just waiting till the holiday season to blow all the guns at full force and open everything?

I don't know i just feel like K isn't up to what it has been in previous years at this time even based on the weather.

 

[Geoff]

is it me or does K look to be behind? I mean i have seen years in the past when it has had conditions like this and they have had plenty of man made snow on trails. Are they just waiting till the holiday season to blow all the guns at full force and open everything?

I don't know i just feel like K isn't up to what it has been in previous years at this time even based on the weather.

K is making snow 24x7 when they don't have rain in the near-term forecast. When you consider how much stinkin' rain they've received in November, they've actually done a pretty good job staying open.

November skiing is iffy. Some years, it's cold for the whole month and they get tons of terrain online. Other years, it's horrible. The worst I can remember is the 1998 Thanksgiving when all they had open was Rime and there was mud, rock, and grass in every trough. I can remember several years when all they had was Rime, East Glade, Mouse Trap, Bunny Buster, and Chute. This year, they at least didn't waste all that much capacity trying to get Snowshed and Rams Head online for Thanksgiving. Their snowmaking quality control is even a little better this year with less wet guns creating ice whales than in recent years. There's a long list of things Killington needs to improve on but you can't fault them on their snowmaking performance this year.

 

[riverc0il]

cibit, given the amount of other ski areas pushing their opening date backwards and the limited amount of terrain the few open areas have been able to offer up, K is doing amazingly well considering the weather. the weather during the second half of november has been abnormally warm with very little snow making weather and two days of severe NCP. i was frankly surprised just how good K was able to keep their snow and how much they had opened. november started off great but completely fizzled. having skied their opening week and this past weekend, i believe their lack of terrain is completely weather related, imo.

 

[Mark Renson]

is it me or does K look to be behind? ....blah, blah, blah.

K is making snow 24x7 when they don't have rain in the near-term forecast. When you consider how much stinkin' rain they've received in November, they've actually done a pretty good job staying open.

November skiing is iffy. Some years, it's cold for the whole month and they get tons of terrain online. Other years, it's horrible. The worst I can remember is the 1998 Thanksgiving when all they had open was Rime and there was mud, rock, and grass in every trough ....blah, blah, blah

As fun as it is to bash Killington - and they do deserve it at times - ya' can't blame them if they are behind. We've had a lotta' rain lately. One of the lousiest early season days I remember was in November 1989, right before Thanksgiving. It was so bad, they let people free for ski ....I'm not making this up! But, a few days later right before Thanksgiving, a huge dump occured and December 1989 was a great month, albeit one of the coldest months, ever. Windy, too. Another stellar time was in November 1993. I remember being in the Bloodshed Lodge that Thanksgiving Sunday and watching things melt by the minute in a monsoon. It was very ugly. But, a few weeks later, the dumps came and 1994 was a great year. So, maybe it';s a good thing we get all of the thaws now and done with and let the Winter Ju-Jus get saved for a little later on.

 

[cibit]

i really wasn't bashing K i really commend them for what they do. I was just asking basically if the amount of trails open was weather related or basically were they just holding thehse amount of trails open till xmas time then open a huge amount at once.

I agree skiing in nov at K can be iffy and i give K all the credit for what they do with there guns. I have seen years too like you have said that it has been crappy weather and then they get dumped on and that is what i am hopping for. I just am a little scared at the way the weather is going this year we won't have as many trails in full force as previous years but i know its due to the weather i just wish it would get reall cold from dec 1st on and stay that way.

 

[Geoff]

I was just asking basically if the amount of trails open was weather related or basically were they just holding thehse amount of trails open till xmas time then open a huge amount at once.

It doesn't work that way. Depending on temperature and humidity, it takes them 2-3 days to put snow down on an expert trail and 3-4 days to put snow down on a double-black like Double Dipper, Ovation, Superstar, or Outer Limits. Killington has enough compressor and water pump capacity to blow 2 1/2 trails at a time top to bottom. It takes them 5 weeks of cold/dry weather to get everything open blowing 24x7 unless they get lots of natural snow.

 

[Anonymous]

do they really have double black runs?

 

[cibit]

see thats why i am not a ski snow expert analizer. Thanks for the info though. I just wish these little storms that keep hitting us with the edge of rain snow line would just shift a little further east so we would be on the snow line. But hey thats the east for ya!

 

[cibit]

do they really have double black runs?

everything at K is double black once you get on those hills around christmas/new years time. haha j/k. Its like grand central station there on those hills unless you know the good runs that arn't used that often.

I just hope they have decent cold wether enough to just start making some massive amount of snow on the trails because otherwise 30 or so trails open for K during christmass time will be crazy and will wear out things in a matter of one day.[/i]

 

[Mark Renson]

i really wasn't bashing K

Why not ?!?! :lol: Everyone else does! Seriously, I was only making a broad general statement.

Meanwhile, cut 'n pasted from another discussion list, someone has informed us as follows:

Of course, ASC didn't put this online. Some Kmart skiers scanned the paper map.
http://www.killingtonzone.com/albums/Mi ... apMed2.jpg

Hmmmm ??.let's seee?. Yikes, not only are some of the off-piste runs now on-piste, but also the names are changed. The name of one of 'em even was transferred across the mountains !!
Vagabond got easier! - it went from a black to a blue ?.does it now get BRUTALLY GROOMED ?!?! Great Eastern now goes to the right of Skye Peak rather than across Superstar/Skyelark. I recall that Novices raved about Great Eastern ?..but now part of the old GE is black for part of the way (it is now Launch Pad) ! Pipe Dream went from Black to a Blue on the lower part below the Fridge lift right where I caught frostbite in December 1987. Skyeburst ? one of the World's most boring McTrails - went from Black to Blue. Ummm, I do recall that the headwall on that was steep and certainly not for intermediates, especially with the scraped Frozen McSludge snowmaking malaise. After that, it gets dull to the point where I actually think I almost dozed off while skiing on that once. Lower Dream Maker went from Black to Blue ?.umm, I remember accidentally guiding someone down that when it was very bumped up and way over her head and I caught some serious grief for that; I think I consoled her with a fun Great Eastern run down to the Needle's Eye Double (that used to be the KP Double at one time, ya' know!) - and now a good part of that trail is now Black rather than Green! I liked that trail (Great Eastern).

 

[Geoff]

Hmmmm ??.let's seee?. Yikes, not only are some of the off-piste runs now on-piste, but also the names are changed.

Yep. Patsy's Panties, Toilet Bowl, Centerpiece... they're all on the map now. They even put Bear's A$$ on the map and that has some pretty nasty cliff on it. Fortunately, there's still quite a bit that's off the map.

 

[skiadikt]

Skyeburst ? one of the World's most boring McTrails - went from Black to Blue. Ummm, I do recall that the headwall on that was steep and certainly not for intermediates, especially with the scraped Frozen McSludge snowmaking malaise. After that, it gets dull to the point where I actually think I almost dozed off while skiing on that once.

:lol: :lol:

actually at k, they'll groom virtually anything these days. generally after a thaw/hard freeze, escapade, west glade, north star, vagabond and other nats have felt the jaws of a groomer. generally though they're left ungroomed. they've even groomed roundabout, though mostly to fill in the gullies. only runs safe from a groomer are some of the other south fridge runs like breakaway, jug & handle probably cause there's not enough snow there to groom. needles liftline & thimble also never get groomed.