Killington, vt 3-18/ Loon ,nh 3-19

joegm

joegm

New member
K on thurs-pulling into lincoln , nh wed night and seeing what appeared to be minimal fresh snow combo'd with assumptions of nightmare conditions based on the weekends no bulls, prompted us to go to k on thurs morning... we pulled into bear at about 830 and it appeared that they had about 7 on the ground at the base areas... O.L was groomed down on skier's left, which made us a little nervous, but with all that new snow, which looked like about 10 to 12 at the top of the lift, we figured it was worth the brutal ride over and back to avoid loon and be in fresh snow...it was.. but only to an extent it turns out... at this point im sure everyone knows that it's all about the bumps for me and my bud's ... k's bump lines, what few they appeared to have, were very challenging, in a bad way.. the steep natural blacks, ovation, cascade, s star were pretty much all crap because of the base... more than one would think with a fresh 10 to 12 on the ground... i have never seen such amounts of pure ice enveloping a whole mogul before frontside, top and backside.... it was so icy on k's moguls that even the fresh snow required perfect bump technique to keep from sliding out... it was really amazing... they took down quite a few of what one would expect to be bumped up trails... the best line was either wildfire off the bear ( lower part not bumped ) or the vertigo line of the stage 2... lots of ropes pulled across the natural trails, even with the snow... groomers looked like the groomers got at em at about the 4 or 5 mark and most had about 3 to 4 of fresh on them that got tracked out real quick...underneath that , on anywhere with a pitch was boilerplate... we ventured over to the snowden tree line for one run and it was loaded up but there was brutal hardpack under the fresh snow, and it was not hard at all to get down to it... we only rode it once because they were not spinning the snowden q to get at it so to access it required a k 1 ride and a poma ride... not worth it... we ended up back on vertigo and wildfire in semi shock for the duration... the place was jammed with some sort of vacation week skiers ( canada? maybe ) the worst 10 to 12 inches of powder i have ever skied in... as silly as that sounds... or maybe not ( see the anecdote below ) <BR>Loon on friday- driving over to k on thurs , we were prepared to spend the money for a hotel and stay if conditions were as they appeared from the roadside snows... that obvoiusly wasn't the case so it was back to loon... we braced ourselves for a bad day, but free day.... we awoke to about 4 inches of fresh and snow coming down hard... but it didn't even get a rise out of us cause based on k mart the day before, we were estimating maybe 3 feet might fix whatever crap was over there.... well , once again it was not what we expected it to be...it really was not that bad.... and i still can't figure out why... ( oh, wait a minute , yes i can... for at least one trail.. see story below )the groomers were groomed late, it appeared and had about 2 or 3 on them...the surface under them was hardpacked . no doubt, but it was not as icy as i was anticipating it to be....but the biggest surprise of all were the bumps on lowerrumrunner... some ice? , no doubt...challenging? for sure.. but nothing like k the previous day...and it was evidenced by the fact that there were many people trying to ski em.. some doing better than others, no doubt, but at least they were not scared u knowwhat less to try ( wonder how many people were bashing the NATURAL BUMPS at cannon in the last three days... even with the fresh snow? ) .. it dumped heavy wet huge flakes intermittenly all day and by 2 pm, it was actually really good surface conditions,,, with vision being the only problem... drove back this morning ( sat ) and it appeared they picked up about 1 overnight combo'd with about 3 from the previous day ( daytime ) the tree lines are still unskiable and all the usual junctions are crap...but overall it wan't that bad...take it for what it's worth.. <BR>TRUE STORY- thurs at k, at about 11 pm, my buddy and i, in a semi state of shock at how we could be in an aggravated state with about a foot of fresh snow on the ground, loaded up onto the stage 2 gondy ... once inside we noticed 2 guys wearing high profile bump pants...naturally, a converstation ensued... followed by a run down the vertigo line....our converstation with the fellow bumpers confirmed that there were only 2 worthwhile lines to ski on the whole mountain.. wildfire and vertigo... well the vertigo line we skied with these 2 guys confirmed 2 things for us.. 1) the bump lines at k were not in very good condition and 2) these guys were very good bumpers... these guys skied vertigo very well... very well.. they were a level above us, for sure... we could hang, but they were better... back to the stage 2... more converstation found mystery bumper #1 saying to mystery bumper #2, " evan was right... this place is falling apart " naturally we inquired , " what do you mean "? they replied that they , along with their friend evan, had skied k on wed... thier friend evan, had gone to okemo , out of, according to them, disgust over the previous day's ( bump ) situation... okemo ? we said...what the hell is down at okemo... " you guys have never been to okemo " they said.... no, never had the opportunity (or the inkling for that matter)... "you guys don't know what you are missing" they said, " that's where evan pretty much skis out of now, we are going down there tonight "... we asked them 2 questions.. 1) who was evan and 2) what is so good about okemo?...they laughed when we asked " who is evan" " have you ever heard of evan dybvig " one of em said...ohhh!!!!.. that evan... as in evan dybvig, former us mogul team member... these 2 were buds with dybvig, and the short story said that they and all their friends, were all starting to ski out of okemo now, even though they all live in and around k.. question #2) whats so great about okemo... according to these cats'... okemo has 3 real bump runs, 1 black, 1 blue and 1 top black/bottom blue ( that's RUNS, not segments or fields or any other foolish strip of about 30 yards long that a racer would not have to put up with ) that they BUILD BUMPS ON AND KNOCK EM DOWN AND REBUILD THEM EVERY THREE WEEKS... apparently mr dybvig came to k on wed figuring he would find some decent bump lines to ski with the fresh snow and all and not have to make the 30 minute drive down south for a change... he turned out to be mistaken.. his 2 buds hung around only because they had to pick up one of their other friends who was working on thurs before all were headed down to okemo for fri and sat... again, take the above for what it's worth, but after the last 2 days of skiing, i am more convinced than ever... it is an absolute disgrace that , with about 4 or 5 exceptions like, pats peak/ king pine/ crotched type areas, a new england ski area ( generally all of which get relatively little snow when compared to western resorts and all of which go through numerous thaw freeze cycles during the winter rendering unmanagde terrain junk to unskiable at times ) can't have a dedicated man made bump run of a reasonable pitch that has the bumps taken down and rebuilt once a month... i have yet to hear a reasonable valid argument why this can't be done...can't give up the terrain.. thats a bunch of crap... this past friday there were just as many people trying their hand at loons blue bump run than just about any other trail ( on the flip side, i saw none trying thier hand at loons NASTAR GATE SET UP )... resouces/money - another load of crap--- i told my buddy gil about river's assessment that some areas like cannon may not be able to give up the manpower/resources/ time to build a trail of bumps and maintain them...after laughing for 5 minutes he said to me " yeah, ask that guy how much money/time resources/manpower cannon spent in cutting/clearing the tram line trail... that thing really got a lot of use this year, huh?... that thing is lucky to be skiable at all every other year at best.. and when it is, it's prabably open less than half the time ". i'm not sure what the hell's going on over at k mart right now... something very strange is going on though, when loon mtn and okemo mountian are the only reliable places for CONSISTENT, MAINTAINED moguls and lines ( I'LL START CALLING THEM MAN MADE WHEN WE START CALLING RACE COURSES MAN MADE... the lunacy of places like k and cannon and waterville and burke and attitash and all the rest and anyone pretty much outside of jay not putting in maintained bumps in a snow year like this where any unmaintained/non groomed/ non park/jib terrain has been garbage 80% of the time is really incredible.... any okemo local out there is encouraged to verify the veracity of the story of okemo's maintained bumps that was relayed to us... i'm done with the preaching, loons bumps are in to stay and at this point, even though it's kind of ridiculous, it's all i care about ... k will have bumps in the spring... they appear to have some options at okemo... hopefully other places will get their heads out of their asses too. <BR>ps. the k mart superstar status report has the superstar lift ( at it's lowest point to the ground ) higher than the snow line... not a good sign
 
haha, killington is falling apart, okemo has it together, no reason to ski killington anymore. As for bumps, now that glen plake isn't cool anymore, and people realize that walking pain-free is better than being a bumps skier, moguls are not a challenge or feature at ski areas anymore. Nobody skis moguls anymore just to ski moguls, with the advent of shaped skis skiing groomed runs became much more easy, fun, and enjoyable. Skiing bumps was a late 80's and early 90's fad, thanks to good ole' plake. Resorts like okemo are doing it right when they groom 90% of their terrain and seed 2 or 3 true bump runs for those who still like them. Bumpers would rather have 2 or 3 solid top to bottom lines than 40 runs of awful, icy, inconsistent bumps. <BR> <BR>But i agree with them in that killington is falling apart. Okemo is far superior financially and their mountain is reflecting that in conditions and infrastructure.
 
anonymous, your post is so ridiculous in it's analysis, it's not even worth responding to... other than, i got a feeling plake could out-ski you with 2 broken legs, 2 broken arms , and a broken back
 
i wasn't saying anything bad about bump skiers, just that bumps are no longer "the thing" among the mainstream ski population any more. Nothing against them, but if surveyed 90% of skiers now, when asked what the best type of bump run is, they would say "no bump run". I'm not saying a well seeded and soft bump run is a bad thing, but the successful ski areas have realized that if 90% of their skiers (which is dead on) don't enjoy skiing bumps then why should 90% of their runs have moguls all over them. I don't know if you've been recently, but okemo seeds upper noreaster each year, and keeps it in tip top shape for training the hs mogul teams. It is a complete competition length bump run with competition jumps on it too. Is okemo groomed to the hilt, sure, but do they ensure that their bumps are in good shape...yes. My point was that it is better to have less bump runs and 90% grooming if those bump runs are well maintained, rather than 25% grooming and letting 75% of the mountain maintain itself. <BR> <BR> <BR>Q: What's better than being Glen Plake. <BR> <BR>A: Walking
 
as opposed to the million dollar half pipe being the " thing" or steel rails being the "thing" among the mainstream population... how many people over the age of 30 actually ski those things on a regular basis . it is a dubious statement to say that 90% of the skiing public does not enjoy skiing bumps... 90% of the skiing public may not enjoy skiing the UNMAINTAINED usually crappy bumps at cannon on paulies folly or the usually crappy bumps on lower flume at loon... but who are you to presume that those are the only types of bumps that should be in existence?....are you telling me that only 1 out of 10 skiers at okemo has any use at all for the miantained bump runs you talk about... i can assure you as someone who goes to loon pretty much every week and as someone who knows that loon attracts generally a lower end skier, the blue bumps that they have put in, on monday through friday, get far much more use than does the half pipe or any s or c rails or kinked rails do... on the weekends when kids show up, i'm sure that ratio changes... if you read my post, u would know that i have never been to okemo.. it was good to hear that they seed bump runs and make them skiable to the general public, but i strongly disagree with what you appear to be advocating in grooming flat 90% of the mountain, then manicuring the other 10 % for bumps... why does it have to be such an extreme... why is it so impossible to have a couple of trails like paulies and lowerflume all nautral and untouched, a couple of seeded bump runs, a dedicated race trail for gates, a jib park, a half pipe and the rest groomed out flat runs....is it really that tough to do...maybe for pats peak or the blue hills... but anyplace the size of say ragged mtn or bigger should have no problem achieving that mix to pretty much satisfy everyone. god, this isn't brain surgery... it's just simple logic and planning.... <BR>" nobody ski moguls anymore just to ski moguls " if u ski more than 5 times a season, u should try and ski moguls.. why, 2 reasons.. 1) when they are skied properly, they make make you a better overall skier... tony c's anecdote talked about the powder mag group trip a while back... the mogul skier appeared to be the most well rounded skier able to handle the most variable conditions... now if you are the type of person who skis deer valley , UT from jan - feb and then shuts it down, maybe you could approach it differentLY... but a new england skier, as evidenced by this current season, sees far more snow that is percieved as crap as opposed to perfect packed powder.... the new shaped skis you speak so lovingly of are great for that nice packed powder that has no surface changes like cookies or ruts or ice or crust or fresh powder to get in the way...how often are conditions like t to b packed powder in existence around here?... not very often... and in anything but that perfect packed powder, that crap that is sold to the public by the ski industry and the PSIA SCHOOLS about just be centered on you skis and let the shape do the work goes out the window... good skiers know that the only way to really become an expert skier is to be fully on your skis on the balls of your feet... having the tips loaded...thats why mogul skiers ( and tele skiers ) are the best skiers on the hill,,, mogul skiers instantly know when they are not on their skis.. mogul skiers do not rely on the shape of the ski to overly contribute to the turn, which again, is fine for perfect packed out groomed out pow... anything else, moguls skiing technique is much more applicable, trees, powder, ice, crud are all most efficiently conquered using many of the fundamentals of mogul skiing... fortunately, guys like plake know this... unfortunately, anonymous, there are people like you out there who continue to spread the myth that mogul skiing equals pain, is hard on the knees, blah blah blah... it is so wrong and if you took the time to look into quality mogul instruction by someone other than a PSIA instructor whose approach seems to be to ski around the bumps, you would realize that skiing bumps is all about putting your body and it's weight in a position to absorb and extend.. and this position , which is not the same as just being centered over a pair of fat shaped tounge depressors, is a position that sets one up to ski well in many many types of variable conditions...it's been about 8 years since the most recent shaped ski craze hit that market ( i believe there was one in the 70's too) ... is it easier to ski on them in certain conditions? probably yeah...in all conditions, no way... and one could argue that with the de-emphasis on weight being foreward, it has made skiers , on the lower end recreational level, maybe not as adept as they could or should be...mogul skiing an 80's and early 90's fad?... i don't think so, dude...glen plake not being cool or hip?... glen plake's little left toenail will always be a least 10 times cooler than some lame ass salomon x screamer skiing weekend warrior who like to just point em down and go on the nice carpet and could turn a door knob, never mind a pair of skis. <BR>ps, why would you seem to celebrate the problems of the only new england ski area that can currently be counted on for skiing after april 15th?.... maybe you think it's too tough to turn skis in that heavy thick corn?...if that's the case, you may want to re-evaluate that psia centered ski philosophy... bumpers seem to have no problem at all in the thickest of corn!!!!!
 
I tend to agree with joegm. I think the more of the mountain that you can ski, including both. moguls, and trees, and even the park. The better all around skier you will be. I know for myself I was stuck in the same old rut until 6 years ago when i started trying moguls. I only got better, and now it comes more naturally, and my skiing on the rest of the mountain has improved. And once you can ski perfect moguls, you can try skiing bad moguls, unsemetrical, icy, and rocky ones. Even though it is alot harder to ski those it can also be just as much fun!!! <BR> <BR>porter
 
Bumps aren't about seeded "groomed" runs. Ungroomed pow gets bumped up on trails like paullies folly. Your talking about mogul skiing making you better at skiing everything that isn't courderoy, mogul skiing IS everything that isn't courderoy (or 3 feet of snow on top of old bumped up lines). Bumps are what they are, if your too much of a pussy to ride unpredictable bare/icy lines then go ride the quad at loon; for god sakes don't come to cannon.
 
porter, your last point is dead on right... but guys like stupidargument seem to think that somehow good mogul skiers just appear out of thin air... that some how they can just instantly ski junk like paulies well right off the bat...it makes no sense, but what do you expect from a dude named stupid argument ( (somethin tells me that dude is a train wreck on paulies ) <BR> yo nhph, sorry to hear are on the d.l. i can relate.. i wrecked my shoulder just about 1 year ago this time...hope u feel better, man... at least it's in a crap snow year where they will probably shut it down early!!!!! <BR>ps, to stupid argument, ungroomed pow turning into natural bumps is predicated on one little minor detail, dude... snow... and this year at cannon, like many other other years, there is/has been no snow!!!!!
 
i just read all this........joegm. <BR>on moguls-i will say "i love em!" <BR>hell--cruising terrain is fine...but in all my 30yrs i been skiing-i love the bumps. <BR> <BR>starting out as a kid with a pair of jet stix highbacks- on my trappeur boots....once i got to the adv intermed stage,i hit bumps like there was no tomorrow. killington-jay-ragged-mt snow-gunstock-attitash-pico-magic,on and on. the quest for moguls started there and then.......and continues on till today.the whole thing about em is to become a human shock absorber and nail em.you get a good workout--burn calories.a lot better than just slow motion left and right turns on boring flat runs. the mogul is king!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top