loon , nh 1-16-08

[joegm]

I'll be longing for those sunny spring days when I'm skiing in a long sleeve T-shirt and sunglasses.

amen geoffy, your one of the few that get it for sure :wink: ....the amount of powder that is going to be needed to fix this mess aint comin anytime soon....

 

[joegm]

Loon is what it is.

They try and make alot of snow. Not at the same level as the River, but alot for the region. Check the conditions in April, Loon compared to others. Loon will have a very competive base.

This is not the premier glade mountain. It never has claimed to be nor will it ever be. If its a season without alot of natural snow.... Loon would be my 1st choice in the region. It was any way. 35 to 40 days a year for 8 years.

The river is just a better value and I don't mind making the ride. I drive right past Loons' exit on my way. Slope side lodging is great with teen kids.


When the sugarloaf loon and River pass come into effect next year. I will be back at loon a decent amount of times. My ride up or my ride back or if I get out early I'll make some late afternoon turns. I don't buy many day tickets. I'm cheap I have a pass I use it.

Loon gets bashed all the time and yet people go. It was easy with a 1.5 hour ride home on Sunday with the fam all together with young kids. Pass prices were reasonable and kids programs were affordable and well run. It has a country club feel after lunch. Not a hardcore attitude in general.

They are at Cannon or Wildcat. and some at Burke. A decent amount of Loon folks make the Jay peak run from their condo's as well. Ie joe's point is right on about local.

The lines... everyoene complains about them. Honestly there is a way to ski Loon and not get really nailed. Mid week its very nice with the good vertical. The key to lincoln is its 4 season appeal. Actually anything from exit 27 to 32 has that. IMO

I like this region more in the summer than the winter.

bingo robert!!!!!

 

[joegm]

if u are luggin around small children and or driving the ol minivan in a snowstorm, the difference between a 2 hour ride and a 3 hour ride is significant.. and from metro boston, it is really more like 3 1/2 to be honest

 

[Tony Crocker]

There were multiple factors involved in my declining to go to Bretton Woods:
1) Location, not the most interesting eastern areas; I would be skiing on my own instead of with the group much of the time.
2) Dates are not hopeless, but clearly later than optimal.
3) I'd like to use FF miles and go to the Alps before skiing the East, but the previous week is Easter week, reportedly very busy in Europe.
4) I try to make at least one NASJA event per season, and the western regional was in Whistler.

It turns out that there are also organizational issues with the Bretton Woods meeting. Typically registration for NASJA annuals is around November, yet the materials, schedule etc. have still not been posted. I found out at Whistler that BW had a great media host when it was awarded the meeting, but that she is on leave with a new baby and the replacement person has dropped the ball. I expect western attendance at Bretton Woods to be minimal. Given the favorable reviews by officers who have been there, more of us will probably go to Lutsen next year.

nothing is going to convince him that he's wrong.

My opinions about eastern skiing are formed primarily by the trip reports I read here. I'm as envious as anybody of many of Riverc0il's and powderfreak's reports, or Patrick's last Dec. 15-17. When I read one like this, my reaction is that I'd rather stay home.

Over the years, multiple no-bull reports create an impression. Those reports reinforced the reputations of Jay, Stowe and MRG, so it was an easy decision to visit those places when I came East in March 2003. There are some places off the radar where FTO reports have given me favorable impressions, like Gore, Burke and Bolton Valley. Cannon and Sugarloaf seem to be like Mt. Baldy, great terrain but you have to get really lucky to hit decent snow conditions.

joegm's reports have given me a very negative view of Loon. BobR's explanation is helpful in explaining when it can work well and why Loon is popular. Given limited time and a choice of areas, I still wouldn't go there but the explanation is still illuminating.

 

[Patrick]

There were multiple factors involved in my declining to go to Bretton Woods.

I don't disagree with you about not flying from California to go to Bretton Woods, however I didn't agree with your statements about (from last year conversation) that a ski trip in the East in late March isn't worth it and Odds of late March skiing being good anywhere in the East are fair-to-middling.

 

[skibumm100]

March can be a really great month for snow in the east. St. Patrick's Day dumps are pretty common. We used to joke about it. The snowfalls, though not always light and fluffy, are often plentiful. As far as who will have the best conditions at that time of year is still yet to be determined. It depends on which way the storms track. In my experience, farther north (ie Jay, Smuggs, Stowe and Burke) have the edge. In exeptional years, the storms track further south and places like Cannon, Waterville, Loon and the like have the goods. With the latest thaw we're almost starting from scratch but if the storms continue as they have, I'd go north. I believe it was six years ago when southern New England got massive dumps of snow when Jay was fairly barren. I was looking at a house to buy in southern NH and you couldn't tell what they looked like because you couldn't see them because the snow was piled so high. Sunday River would have been a good bet that year due to the Nor'easter's.

 

[Tony Crocker]

The snow stats back up the impression about March snowfall in New England. It is essentially the same as February. The problem is that rain and thaw incidence starts rising sharply after mid-March (I have daily data from the top of Mt. Mansfield since 1982). If you get snow after that, it might not be worth much if the base was previously wiped out. Unless they are huge dumps like last April. For you who were there, congratulations. For someone planning ahead and having to fly in, not good odds.

 

[Harvey]

I don’t think anyplace stowe or wherever is worth a s#*t right now..more on that later

Gore was awesome this morning, 6 more inches of new, 2nd to New Years Day, for me this year. I'll put up a report as soon as I can.

 

[joegm]

i think a lot of people are missing crocker's point...i dont believe he is trashing new england skiing per se...although i do believe that the northeast is a single a team compared to the major league clubs out west... i think crockers larger point is that to make a planned trip east to ski just doesn't make sense when statistically, you are placing a bet with odds...and that's the point. what are the odds?... there are odds with anything with skiing...but in the east, the odds are not as strong as they are out west....i think his point is the odds of consistent snow quality are much better out west...he's not wrong about that...simple elevation levels prove him right,,,,to say he is wrong about that general idea is just ridiculous...crocker is talking about booking a flight, booking a plane and traveling 5 to 8 hours....he is not talking about banging in sick to work, getting in the car and bombing up 93 north or 91 north to chase the dump that just happened at jay or wherever....yeah i know, jay peak can get hit with a thirty inch dump and all that....but that is bet... and it's not a bet i would think a guy who skis mammoth mountain would place... why the heck would he...? resorts with base elevations of 5k to 8k are not going to be dealing with this thaw/rain/freeze nonsense that we deal with here every freaking year...actually,if you were talking about planning a trip , i think the best time to ski here in new england odds wise would be mid april...but then you would have the problem of not having hardly any lift access :roll: :wink:

 

[joegm]

In exeptional years, the storms track further south and places like Cannon, Waterville, Loon and the like have the goods.

i can think of 1 day , i think it was in 2003 , in the last 6 years that the loon/wv cannon corridor had goods that could be compared to goods out west...it was a good 35 incher and our crew actually ended up at cannon as loon didn;t spin... big surprise :shock: ...loon /cannon / wv ... they don't get "goods"...at least not goods like crocker and his cronies would define them :wink:

 

[Tony Crocker]

loon /cannon / wv ... they don't get "goods"...at least not goods like crocker and his cronies would define them

Or as Riverc0il, JSpin, powderfreak and their cronies would define them either.

Riverc0il's Jay report today was illustrative. Maybe not the greatest skiing in the world, but it's obvious that an adequate natural base remains. So "low angle powder skiing" works and the next time it snows more substantially I'm sure we'll see the usual ski porn pics from him and powderfreak. Go far enough south in New England and I suspect you're starting over in terms of building a natural base.

This is what happened in the PNW after the infamous Tropical Punch of January 2005. Crystal and most of Washington State was washed out and the ski areas were closed over 2 months. When it finally started snowing it took about 3 weeks for Crystal to rebuild its base and reopen. Whistler retained a skiable base, albeit with spring and variable surfaces over the 2 dry months. But when it started snowing again (about a week before I arrived) there was good powder skiing right away.

joegm and Riverc0il do understand the rather high risk that eastern ski trips planned far in advance entail. FYI the NASJA Bretton Woods schedule was at long last published today: http://www.mountwashingtonresort.com/ge ... ja/nasja08 . This is by far the latest I've ever seen an annual meeting schedule. Only one day, Friday March 28, will be spent away from Bretton Woods, with a choice of Cannon or Tucks.

 

[riverc0il]

Other areas were not completely washed out. I think other areas could have natural snow trails online soon, perhaps even by today. But I do not think glades will be skiable outside of NoVT until at least another 1-2 feet.

Given the NASJA is nearly Bretton Woods exclusive and on the last week in March, very good decision to not bother. Last week in March last year, our season was nearly effectively over lift serviced.... if it had not been for the freak three storms in early April. Late March is still good spring skiing but by then, some of the smaller areas are starting to consider closing up shop depending on the weather and conditions.

 

[Harvey]

Gore, while not technically New England, is pretty far south - about that latitude of Kmart - and was not washed out either. I'd say Riv is right - we'd need 12-16" to get (a reasonable man) back in the trees. Some had been in, but... not me. FYI our "weather station" at the cabin recorded 56F as the highest temp of the thaw at 2000 feet.

 

[Tony Crocker]

3 factors involved in when the natural terrain becomes skiable again:
1) How deep was the snowpack in the first place? N. Vermont gets the most snow, thus likely it had the deepest snowpack after a great month like December 2007.
2) How much was lost to thaw and rain? This is pretty much latitude, with distance to the coast a lesser factor. From what I read here, Quebec City area and maybe Laurentians stay coldest, Gore and Whiteface are presumably comparable to Killington and Stowe at comparable latitudes/altitudes. Sugarloaf is maybe in between; once you get down to Franconia Notch or southern Vermont, damage tends to be greater.
3) How much new snow to resurface? Odds are here again with Northern Vermont. This is why it's not as big an issue in Washington State. They get the rain too, but they usually get several feet of resurfacing cement piled on top of it within a week or two.

 

[BobR]

If you don't have to set your plan... do it like many do in the east(those were are not held to the seson pass ) go according to condtions. In years past BW would be a choice late season, cause they made alot of snow even late in the season.( not so sure these days) Once the crowds die down, loon is always a safe bet. Natuaral of not they will have snow. With natural snow Cannon makes a lot of sense. If you want to drive a bit more Sunday River is a safer bet than Loon.

Just enjoy the trip.