Mont-Sainte-Anne, QC 11/27/08

[Admin]

Day 7: (A little) more of the same

It kept snowing lightly in the Quebec/Côte de Beaupré region Wednesday night and into Thursday, but with temperatures hovering just above the freezing mark during the day it didn't amount to a whole lot. I headed back to Mont-Sainte-Anne first thing Thursday morning for a few more hours of lapping the North Side.

All of the race kids were still out. Really, it was remarkable the number of race clubs who were committed to MSA for the week. That includes the ones you might expect (Estrie, Mont Sainte-Marie) and some that you might not (Gore Mountain, for example). There were about a dozen teams both running gates on La Soumonde, closed for race training, and free skiing on La Première Neige and La Paradeuse, the other two open runs. (They had two rails set up on about the top 50 feet of La Grande Allée, so while they may call that a fourth open run, I don't.)

With the additional open terrain -- Tuesday had only La Première Neige and the aforementioned one turn of La Grande Allée -- the surfaces were much, much better. Tuesday's skiing was surprisingly soft, but by Thursday the traffic wasn't pushing everything into small piles that made high-speed GS turns a washboard experience. I preferred the twisting, rolling terrain and softer snow on La Première Neige over the slightly steeper and more consistent fall lines of La Paradeuse, as the latter's snow was a bit chunkier as it was newer manmade.

I played around for about a dozen runs, experimenting with video and the helmet cam before calling it a day around noon and heading back down the gondola to wrap up business and grab yet another bowl of poutine. I'll try to get a video short put together before too much longer.

So after 10 hours of traveling today through two plane changes, here I am back in Salt Lake. For anyone who may be contemplating flying into Quebec City from somewhere, I strongly recommend against routing through Toronto on your way back to the U.S. I've done this once before and apparently didn't learn my lesson. After checking your bags at your point of origin and flying your first leg to Toronto, you have to wait at a special (but no faster) baggage claim to collect your bags, carry them through U.S. Customs to pre-clear your return, re-check your bags, clear security again, and make it to your connecting flight. In other words, it's a cluster. We had 90 minutes to pull it off and wouldn't have made our connection had Air Canada not pulled us out of the normal Customs line and rushed us through the Nexus lane.

Perhaps my underlying reasons for being in Quebec this trip affected my interpretation, but for some reason this time the area outside of the tourist zone in Old Quebec felt far more depressed than it ever had in the past. Maybe it was the weather -- I saw the sun for about 5 minutes in 6 days -- but driving through neighborhoods or meeting on the street, everyone I encountered just seemed to have this air of hopelessness. I watched people out walking about in the course of their day-to-day business getting sandblasted by blowing snow, and hardly ever smiling. With a down economy, historically astronomical unemployment and what must be a sense of isolation surrounded by English-speaking North America, I've got to wonder if their politicians are dialed in to what I perceive as a mood of dying in the province.

 

[Patrick]

With a down economy, historically astronomical unemployment and what must be a sense of isolation surrounded by English-speaking North America, I've got to wonder if their politicians are dialed in to what I perceive as a mood of dying in the province.

Didn't you know, that most people hate snow and winter? :roll:

Or is the the Quebec Minority Government (first one in maybe 100 years) is running for re-election December 8th after maybe one year after the previous election? Or is the Canadian Election ending in the 3rd minority parliament one month ago....or is the rumours that the Canadian government might fall before Christmas. :shock:

Happy Holidays...

 

[Admin]

With a down economy, historically astronomical unemployment and what must be a sense of isolation surrounded by English-speaking North America, I've got to wonder if their politicians are dialed in to what I perceive as a mood of dying in the province.

Didn't you know, that most people hate snow and winter? :roll:

Or is the the Quebec Minority Government (first one in maybe 100 years) is running for re-election December 8th after maybe one year after the previous election? Or is the Canadian Election ending in the 3rd minority parliament one month ago....or is the rumours that the Canadian government might fall before Christmas. :shock:

Happy Holidays...

As I said, it's possible that my mood was down and it made me more attentive to the mood of the people I observed around me. It might have been the weather -- run two overcast days in a row here in Utah and folks are ready to slit their wrists. It was grey and damp the entire time I was in Quebec, nearly a week.

Also, for those who don't know, I spent a lot of time in a Quebec City hospital on this trip. Honestly, what I saw shocked me. I'm not trying to turn this into a political thread :-# but those who yearn for government-sponsored healthcare in this country ought to take a tour of facilities north of the border. Compared to the hospitals I observe in the U.S. it felt like I was in Eastern Europe somewhere. I was sitting in a patient room watching a man die, yet there wasn't a single piece of monitoring equipment to be seen. There wasn't even an analog blood pressure cuff on the wall. His roommate was an elderly woman who arrived via the emergency room, where she laid on a gurney in the hallway for four days...four days...before actually being admitted because they didn't have anywhere to put her. I wondered why she laid there in the dark in the room for hours on end, but she explained that after spending four days staring at bright hallway lights she needed the respite. Holes in walls were spackled but never repainted. Carts to deliver supplies to patients had more rust than color. I've never paid for parking at a hospital anywhere, yet even patients were being charged $4 per hour. The system is struggling to squeeze every ancillary penny that it can because it doesn't get the funding that it needs.

I never before noticed how run down many neighborhoods looked. I also found it notable that my wife, who grew up there, also noticed. Talking with people, there's an overwhelming sense of despair. Nearly everyone I spoke with, without exception, would leave if they could but they feel trapped. They know they're trapped. Outside of some Montreal neighborhoods, the education system and the culture doesn't provide a working knowledge of the English language, and they know that they'd need to be proficient to survive economically outside of Quebec. I realized long ago that this is an unstated mission of the provincial government to prevent a mass exodus, but it never felt as apparent to me as it does now.

One funny moment, however, came from this language barrier. On my last night in the city I ran out to fill up the gas tank and to grab a half gallon of milk and some other supplies for my relatives. I ran into the depanneur (convenience store), brought my goods to the counter and explained in my pathetic French to the clerk, a young man of 19 or 20, what I wanted. He replied, but I had no clue what he said. I paused for a moment replaying his comments in my mind, struggling for a moment of understanding with a deer-in-the-headlights look on my face, when he restated his his words, this time in frightfully broken English. I laughed and asked, "Wow...is my French really that bad?"

"But sir," he laughed in return, "you make a really good effort."

 

[jamesdeluxe]

I spent a lot of time in a Quebec City hospital on this trip. Honestly, what I saw shocked me.

I've never been in a hospital there, but feel like I have after seeing the Denys Arcand film, "The Barbarian Invasions," a sequel to his earlier hit, "The Decline of the American Empire." It's about a philandering history professor who finds out that he's dying of cancer, and the last few days where his family and intellectual friends come to say goodbye. A good part of it takes place in a Montreal hospital that's exactly the way you describe... pretty horrifying. At one point, his rich financier son flies back from London, sees how awful the conditions are, and takes him across the border to Burlington, where he pays out of pocket for care. Apparently, the Quebec healthcare system is a pet issue of Arcand's as there was a side narrative in his film "Jesus of Montreal," where the lead character -- stacked like cord wood alongside other patients in the hallway -- dies from a grave head wound before getting treatment. Ask your wife, I'm sure she's seen these movies.

Outside of some Montreal neighborhoods, the education system and the culture doesn't provide a working knowledge of the English language."

Pot meet kettle. Last time I checked, the American education system isn't doing such a superlative job teaching foreign languages to our population. :-k

 

[Admin]

Pot meet kettle. Last time I checked, the American education system isn't doing such a superlative job teaching foreign languages to our population. :-k

Oh, I don't disagree! We do a lousy job of promoting multi-linguism. We're not Europe, in that we're a large nation without lots of other languages being spoken within a small radius of home. One can easily spend their whole life in English without ever leaving the U.S., yet be quite mobile in seeking opportunity.

There's a fundamental difference at work here. We're not trapped in a country (or really, a state is the correct analogy) with over 20% unemployment, while other states/provinces that speak a different language have a whole host of better opportunities. If we want a better life we can go anywhere in the U.S. where opportunities are better, plus English is the language of business the world over. The Quebecois realize, rightfully so, that a working knowledge of English is a necessity to surviving economically outside of Quebec. They can't go to Ontario or B.C. or Alberta and make a decent living. James, you're from Montreal -- could you really be doing what you're doing now if you spoke only French?

A better analogy, in my opinion, are some of the ethnic neighborhoods in the U.S. where an immigrant can survive without having to assimilate. They can continue to go about their daily lives in their native tongue, but wouldn't be able to last a minute outside of that neighborhood without learning the language of the majority population. In order to make a decent wage they'd need to learn English.

 

[icelanticskier]

or maybe it's just young americans not having the drive and ambition or need to learn a foreign language. i know that when i was in school, i avoided foreign language class like the plague cuz my thinking was, why learn another language when i have enough problems understanding my own as a middle/high school student. i opted for shop/cooking/art/music classes just to fill the hole.
rog

 

[Admin]

or maybe it's just young americans not having the drive and ambition or need to learn a foreign language.

Which is where we do a lousy job promoting the need.

Talk about lacking drive or ambition. My kid is fluently bilingual. When I met my wife (he was five at the time), he spoke no English. He learned it quickly at that age, however, and he and his mother speak almost exclusively French in the home. However, when he got to high school what language do you think he signed up for to meet his language requirement? You've got it -- French. Talk about coasting!

 

[Admin]

Here's the video:

[skitube2]http://www.firsttracksonline.com/modules/crpVideo/pnmedia/videos/1227983131_mont-ste-anne_081127.flv[/skitube2]

 

[Marc_C]

i know that when i was in school, i avoided foreign language class like the plague cuz my thinking was, why learn another language when i have enough problems understanding my own as a middle/high school student.

I had a choice of Spanish, French, or Latin in HS. I opted for Latin. Sure, useless as a conversational language, but I knew I was going to be a (bio)science major of some sort in college, so it seemed to fit. What I didn't know was that studying Latin would teach me more about English grammar, vocabulary, and sentence structure than I would ever learn in English class.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

James, you're from Montreal -- could you really be doing what you're doing now if you spoke only French?

Me from Montreal? You're confusing me with the guy sporting the ZZ Top beard.

I grew up near Syracuse, and couldn't speak a word of French until I went to Nice when I was 22. Then a year later, I did the same thing in Berlin. When I arrived in both places, I could only say "my name is James," "how are you?" and "how do I find the train station?" The first two or three months suck beyond belief, because you're basically back at the linguistic level of a three-year-old. Then, it all clicks, and next thing you know, you're gettin' busy with hot natives named Sylvie and Angelika.

Everyone's like "yeah, but you've got a natural talent for learning languages." Absolutely false... I got a D in French in high school. The "trick" is to work your ass off and avoid anglophones like the plague. That's what I think icelantic was referring to -- Americans are shielded from the rest of the planet, and think they can get along on English because it's the "world's language."

 

[Admin]

James, you're from Montreal -- could you really be doing what you're doing now if you spoke only French?

Me from Montreal? You're confusing me with the guy sporting the ZZ Top beard.

You mean the guy who used to be sporting the ZZ Top beard.

No, I wasn't confusing. Sorry, I could've sworn...

 

[salida]

Poutine!

 

[Spensar]

They know they're trapped. Outside of some Montreal neighborhoods, the education system and the culture doesn't provide a working knowledge of the English language, and they know that they'd need to be proficient to survive economically outside of Quebec. I realized long ago that this is an unstated mission of the provincial government to prevent a mass exodus, but it never felt as apparent to me as it does now.

Years of successive separatist governments got their way. I've been travelling to Quebec since the early 80s and the decline in the English language skills among the youth is stunning and sad. I've even noticed it to some extent in the Gatineau region, right beside Ottawa. My hope is the pendulum will swing back to a more balanced point in the future.

 

[Tony Crocker]

We're all waiting for

ZZ Top beard

to weigh in here. For example, is Canadian national health care really provincial health care? Thus Quebec's chronically depressed economy can't fund adequate health services?

The growth of the Internet over the past ~15 years has accelerated

English is the language of business the world over.

Isn't there any groundswell among Quebec voters to change policy yet?

 

[Tony Crocker]

or maybe it's just young americans not having the drive and ambition or need to learn a foreign language.

My academic record in high school was very good. But when senior year came I opted for AP's in math, physics, chemistry and history, which interested me more. I placed out of Princeton's foreign language requirement in French with a 700+ SAT2 score in my high school junior year. But back then there was no oral/listening component (there was a separate test that didn't count and on which I barely broke 500). I never traveled to a French speaking country for over 30 years after high school, by which time my marginal ear for French was long gone. Now, of course, this is the academic decision I most regret. Particularly since, as James notes, a month in a French-speaking country during high school or college years would have been enough to make it stick.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

is Canadian national health care really provincial health care? Thus Quebec's chronically depressed economy can't fund adequate health services?

I'd like to know that too... why would Quebec's hospitals be funded less than Ontario's?

 

[Geoff]

is Canadian national health care really provincial health care? Thus Quebec's chronically depressed economy can't fund adequate health services?

I'd like to know that too... why would Quebec's hospitals be funded less than Ontario's?

Yep. Much o' the funding comes from provincial taxes. There's a federal program called "Canada Health Transfer" that partially funds healthcare in the less affluent provinces. The affluent provinces like Ontario and Alberta don't get much federal money. Since funding is uneven, the care delivered is also uneven.

 

[Geoff]

Pot meet kettle. Last time I checked, the American education system isn't doing such a superlative job teaching foreign languages to our population. :-k

Oh, I don't disagree! We do a lousy job of promoting multi-linguism. We're not Europe, in that we're a large nation without lots of other languages being spoken within a small radius of home. One can easily spend their whole life in English without ever leaving the U.S., yet be quite mobile in seeking opportunity.

There's a fundamental difference at work here. We're not trapped in a country (or really, a state is the correct analogy) with over 20% unemployment, while other states/provinces that speak a different language have a whole host of better opportunities. If we want a better life we can go anywhere in the U.S. where opportunities are better, plus English is the language of business the world over. The Quebecois realize, rightfully so, that a working knowledge of English is a necessity to surviving economically outside of Quebec. They can't go to Ontario or B.C. or Alberta and make a decent living. James, you're from Montreal -- could you really be doing what you're doing now if you spoke only French?

A better analogy, in my opinion, are some of the ethnic neighborhoods in the U.S. where an immigrant can survive without having to assimilate. They can continue to go about their daily lives in their native tongue, but wouldn't be able to last a minute outside of that neighborhood without learning the language of the majority population. In order to make a decent wage they'd need to learn English.

Dunno. In my universe, the United States is becoming bilingual. I probably made a huge error by picking French and German as my alternate languages. I've picked up some survival Spanish along the way and I can read it reasonably well since it overlaps so much with French. If I had to do it all over again, I would have made sure I was Spanish-fluent.

All anglo-Canadians speak what my Vancouver-based sister calls "cereal box French". All packaging is bilingual and all federal signs are bilingual. Other'n that, the only Quebecois culture that has spread to the rest of Canada is poutine and Montreal smoked meat (pastrami). My sister is a VP for Canadian Blood Services so she travels around a lot. She has a lot of entertaining stories about sidebar conversations in meetings in Quebec when locals don't know that she is French-fluent. I've experienced the same thing in France where I was at a meeting all day and dropped into French in the last ten minutes. Jaws drop as people try to think back to exactly what they said in French assuming I wouldn't understand a word.

I always enjoy my wanderings in rural Quebec. I struggle a little understanding the local spoken dialect since it ain't eggsactly approved by l'Academie Francais but I have no problems making myself understood. If you go a couple o' hours southwest of Paris in the rural areas south of the Loire and Orleans, the local dialect is similar with the rolling "Rrrrrrr's".

 

[Admin]

We're all waiting for

ZZ Top beard

to weigh in here.

Mr. ZZ Top beard is traveling this weekend.

Isn't there any groundswell among Quebec voters to change policy yet?

Not when Quebecois politicians are so adept at promoting Quebecois "nationalism".

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Not when Quebecois politicians are so adept at promoting Quebecois "nationalism".

As the last three presidential elections have demonstrated, there's a huge cultural/political chasm separating the red and blue states in the U.S., so it's easy to see how a country that doesn't share a common language would separate into opposing camps. With the exception of hockey, there doesn't seem to be much connecting French-Canadians with anglophones in the rest of the country. All that's left for the two groups is to point fingers at the other about economic inequities.