Northeastern U.S. Weather & Conditions

[Skieric]

Huge snowstorm today in Toronto, however I couldn’t leave the city due to a work obligation. So far we have received 2 feet with most of it falling in 4 hrs. Cold temps around 10f with very light blower powder. We have a tiny ski hill in the city called Earl Bales. Powder is powder, so we decided to go there and get some nice turns for about 1.5 hrs.

Neighbors car shows the new snow well.

 

[berkshireskier]

We await your TR from tomorrow.

LOL, Tony. It MAY have to wait one day. Still snowing here. and cold, although it has warmed up to the mid-teens at 9:45 PM EST. But was in the single digits almost all day long. We've gotten, maybe 12 to 14 inches so far (although it seems deeper than that). And we're expected to get another 8 to 10 inches overnight and through tomorrow (Monday). I'm not sure I can ski tomorrow. I have work to get done (ugh) and we have frozen pipes that have ruptured in a guest cottage on our property and the 12-volt battery on my wife's electric vehicle went completely dead yesterday (the coldest day of the year, which may be a coincidence), so I need take care of those problems. And to be honest, this is almost TOO MUCH snow for my local ski areas. The trails are just not steep enough, for the most part, to handle this much snow (assuming they're not grooming the trails tonight). On most of the trails you would have to straight line the trail to get to the bottom. It's interesting too because, although the snow that fell today was very dry because of the cold, when it accumulated, it was actually quite dense, almost like fine sugar granules, and I think it would not be that easy to ski it, if it were not groomed. I shoveled about 3 or 4 times today (the snow was falling fast) and it was not easy to move the snow around, it was so dense.
I'll see what is going on in the morning but I may wait until Tuesday when all the snow has been groomed out. It should be great skiing.

 

[Tony Crocker]

it was actually quite dense, almost like fine sugar granules

We get a lot of that at Mammoth, where the wind strips the dendrites. That snow still skis great if not wind-stiffened into sastrugi.

The trails are just not steep enough, for the most part, to handle this much snow

Thar can be a problem, but are your hills any flatter than what Harvey skis in upstate NY?

 

[berkshireskier]

We get a lot of that at Mammoth, where the wind strips the dendrites. That snow still skis great if not wind-stiffened into sastrugi.

Thar can be a problem, but are your hills any flatter than what Harvey skis in upstate NY?

Good question. I'm not sure. There are actually two smaller (1,000 ft. vertical) ski areas near me - 15 to 20 minute drives. One is mostly lower intermediate with a few moderately steep pitches on a few trails. This is the one that can be a problem if TOO much snow. Ideal "powder" day there is about 3 to 5 inches of new snow on top of the groomed sub surface. The problem, usually, on days like that the "powder" get skied off very fast because of the limited number of trails and it's usually all chopped up within an hour or two of the opening. The other small ski area near me has steeper terrain with one trail they claim to be the steepest in the region (I'm not sure that is true) but it is a legitimate black diamond. But steeper terrain in the east usually means very icy sub surfaces so the skiing is sometimes dicey.

 

[Tony Crocker]

But steeper terrain in the east usually means very icy sub surfaces

Not with the 18-20 forecast! And if it's a little denser, that should keep you even more off the subsurface. Are there skiable trees in the Berkshires? I would hazard a guess that one of the attraction of trees is that they do not have a manmade subsurface.

 

[ChrisC]

Good question. I'm not sure. There are actually two smaller (1,000 ft. vertical) ski areas near me - 15 to 20 minute drives. One is mostly lower intermediate with a few moderately steep pitches on a few trails. This is the one that can be a problem if TOO much snow. Ideal "powder" day there is about 3 to 5 inches of new snow on top of the groomed sub surface. The problem, usually, on days like that the "powder" get skied off very fast because of the limited number of trails and it's usually all chopped up within an hour or two of the opening. The other small ski area near me has steeper terrain with one trail they claim to be the steepest in the region (I'm not sure that is true) but it is a legitimate black diamond. But steeper terrain in the east usually means very icy sub surfaces so the skiing is sometimes dicey.

I have had good Northeast powder days at Catamount; here are decent pitches on some runs to provide momentum - even in wet snow. Also, the mountain is one of the closest to the Hudson Valley towns and the NY metro suburbs (1-1.5 hrs).

Butternut, in contrast, while scenic and low-key, is a likely candidate for the flattest mountain in New England with 1k vertical. Beginner runs are almost indistinguishable from expert runs. It's pretty remarkable.

Jiminy Peak has legitimate expert terrain.

Bosquet - pass.

Berkshire East is becoming an increasingly worthwhile day trip, but you could be in Vermont by then.

 

[MarzNC]

Jiminy Peak has legitimate expert terrain.

I did a storm chasing trip to Jiminy Peak during the period my daughter was in school near Boston. Had planed to fly for a long weekend to attend a dance recital. Changed my arrival to a few days earlier in order to get to JP before the storm made driving on the highway a bad idea. Landed at Logan around 6pm and made it to Jiminy Peak about 12 hours before the blizzard snow started. I could get a timeshare room at Wyndham Bentley Brook, which is ski in/out.

That was the only time I saw the short double-black called Upper Liftline open. More than enough pitch for those who knew how to ski powder. People who popped off a ski . . . had trouble finding it.

My notes from a post on TheSkiDiva, March 8, 2018:
"The official snow depth was 18-22 inches at Jiminy Peak! The double blacks were not groomed. Nor-easter is a blue off Widow White's, the quad that runs to the very top until 1pm midweek, Ace of Spades is a wide black that has lights. The Hot Wheels Glade is a blue glade with widely spaced big trees that have obviously been thinned and a very mellow pitch. Was quite skiable yesterday even in the morning before the heavy snow started."

Storm skiing under the lights, March 7, 2018

Wyndham parking lot, March 8

Powder skiing on black trails, no grooming

 

[ChrisC]

That was the only time I saw the short double-black called Upper Liftline open. More than enough pitch for those who knew how to ski powder.

Upper Liftline could typically open most winters, but not its headwall. Skiers could enter halfway down via a semi-official traverse from North Glade. Typically, Upper Liftline (at least the lower 1/2) would have some of the only moguls at Jiminy Peak. They were also the best formed due to only a small set of skiers wanting to deal with the lift crowd above/on-stage location, lack of skier knowledge of the entrance, and fewer snowboarders.

Always thought Jiminy was a solid choice for day skiing in the Berkshires & Catskills area.

I still never quite understood why they bought Brodie and shut it down within a few years. I assume the ROI with the required investments was too high after uncovering issues. Or a snowmaking/water or regulatory issue. Typically, the Fairbanks operate Jiminy and later Mount Cranmore well; I do not understand the lack of due diligence, and why a neighboring mountain acquisition went so wrong.

Jiminy Peak acquired neighboring Brodie Mountain in 1999 to operate it as a sister resort, but closed its skiing operations in 2002 due to unsustainable maintenance costs, a 50% drop in early ticket sales, and the need for roughly $5 million in upgrades. The acquisition was intended to expand their footprint, but the aging infrastructure made it more economical to focus investment on Jiminy Peak instead.​

However, American Ski Company bought Pico and Haystack to merge with Killington and Mount Snow, respectively. Despite even cutting connecting trails between Killington and Pico, the merger never happened. Likely, neither acquisition was accretive or financially successful. And Haystack morphed into the Hermitage Club?!

 

[berkshireskier]

Not with the 18-20 forecast! And if it's a little denser, that should keep you even more off the subsurface. Are there skiable trees in the Berkshires? I would hazard a guess that one of the attraction of trees is that they do not have a manmade subsurface.

Heavy snow ended around midnight but is now snowing again - 11:00 AM Monday morning, Jan. 26. Funny type of snow, though. Not really crystalline flakes but not really sleet. Just very fine and tiny little snow "particles". We may get another inch or two today. I'd say we got, maybe 15 to 16 inches but hard to tell exactly because there was drifting last night and the snow definitely condensed down. The local ski areas are reporting 19-20 inches which may be somewhat of an exaggeration. It was tough shoveling this morning - very dense and heavy (but not wet) snow and even a little crusty on top. Almost like shoveling sugar. It has warmed up into the mid-teens. I think it would be very tough skiing, even with wide powder-type skis, on anything that is not groomed.
Re skiable trees in the Berkshires? Short answer is not really. But my next door neighbor who is now in his mid-80's and has been an extremely avid and enthusiastic skier and owns fancy randonee skis and boots, would drive all over Berkshire County looking for places to do "backcountry" skiing and he did find a few places, he claimed, where he was able to skin up and then ski down. The problem around here is that the wooded hillsides (mountain sides?) are very densely treed with all sorts of underbrush and dead, fallen trees and large rocks (left over from when the glaciers scoured out the landscape), so even if there is two or three feet of natural snow on the ground, it wouldn't really cover up the underlying obstacles enough to do any real skiing. Plus, the trees are really too close together to ski safely.

 

[berkshireskier]

I have had good Northeast powder days at Catamount; here are decent pitches on some runs to provide momentum - even in wet snow. Also, the mountain is one of the closest to the Hudson Valley towns and the NY metro suburbs (1-1.5 hrs).

Butternut, in contrast, while scenic and low-key, is a likely candidate for the flattest mountain in New England with 1k vertical. Beginner runs are almost indistinguishable from expert runs. It's pretty remarkable.

Jiminy Peak has legitimate expert terrain.

Bosquet - pass.

Berkshire East is becoming an increasingly worthwhile day trip, but you could be in Vermont by then.

Yea, Chris, I live about half way between Butternut and Catamount; it's a 15-minute drive to either one from where I live. Jiminy Peak is about a 50-minute drive for me. You're right about Butternut - not very challenging terrain but it's a good mountain for families with young kids because the kids really can't get over their heads on any of the trails and all the trails lead down to the small base area. When my daughter was young (I started her skiing when she was 2.5, although she really started "skiing" when she was about 5, we skied at Butternut every weekend and she was enrolled in the race development program where she became a very good skier and made life-long friends. I then taught in the Butternut ski school for about 5 or 6 years. I've also skied a fair amount at Catamount over the years; it used to be quite run-down - the lodge, lifts, snow making, etc. but a new owner (whose family owns Berkshire East and he supposedly has "Wall Street" money) bought Catamount and built a new base lodge; replaced a few lifts; upgraded the snow making, etc.; spent quite a bit of money (I think it is crazy, in southern New England, to invest that much money in a ski area, given the poor winters we have been having; this year excepted). But Catamount definitely has steeper terrain and is more challenging than the "Nut". Jiminy too is bigger and steeper than either Butternut or Catamount. I can also be at Hunter or Windham in about 1.25 hours and I sometimes will go up to southern VT - Stratton, Mt. Snow, etc. - but that is over two hours for me.

 

[ChrisC]

ou're right about Butternut - not very challenging terrain but it's a good mountain for families with young kids because the kids really can't get over their heads on any of the trails and all the trails lead down to the small base area.

The Berkshires were a preferred destination for families and racing programs from the Hudson Valley/NY Metro (Dutchess, Putnam, Westchester, etc.) areas. True New Yorkers / New Jersey-ites wound up on the other side of the Hudson in the Catskills - more crowded and unfriendly. Also, the Berkshires are too far from Boston and its M-ssholes.

I've also skied a fair amount at Catamount over the years; it used to be quite run-down - the lodge, lifts, snow making, etc. but a new owner (whose family owns Berkshire East and he supposedly has "Wall Street" money) bought Catamount and built a new base lodge; replaced a few lifts; upgraded the snow making, etc.;

I have only skied run-down Catamount, but it was fun. No one was there when it snowed. Trails were old school. However, it needed to join the modern era.

Belleayre and Highmont were also in a bit of disrepair during this time period.

Skiers were forced to ski Hunter Mountain early and late since it always had the largest skiable footprint in November, December, mid-March onwards, and April.

whose family owns Berkshire East

That place needed some love as well.

And I never understood why neighbor Mt. Tom closed down, since it was a decent 'hill' with lots of night skiing, close to Springfield/Amherst/etc.

But Catamount definitely has steeper terrain and is more challenging than the "Nut"

I never heard that nickname, and cannot unhear it now.

 

[MarzNC]

I still never quite understood why they bought Brodie and shut it down within a few years. I assume the ROI with the required investments was too high after uncovering issues. Or a snowmaking/water or regulatory issue. Typically, the Fairbanks operate Jiminy and later Mount Cranmore well; I do not understand the lack of due diligence, and why a neighboring mountain acquisition went so wrong.

Jiminy Peak acquired neighboring Brodie Mountain in 1999 to operate it as a sister resort, but closed its skiing operations in 2002 due to unsustainable maintenance costs, a 50% drop in early ticket sales, and the need for roughly $5 million in upgrades. The acquisition was intended to expand their footprint, but the aging infrastructure made it more economical to focus investment on Jiminy Peak instead.

When I got interested in the Berkshires in general, I got the book Lost Ski Areas of the Berkshires, by Jeremy Davis, 2018. When the Fairbanks bought Brodie the longterm idea was to build a $60 million 4-season resort, including a water park. They started by having a joint lift ticket and built a tubing park on Brodie land. As I remember from other sources, once it became clear what it would take to move forward, a challenge was issued to the local community. The idea was that a certain number of season passes needed to be purchased. The goal was not reached. The pivot was to sell the land and focus on further development of Jiminy Peak instead.

The local family who built Brodie went on to create a golf course on the other side of the mountain. Apparently Donnybrook Country Club absorbed many of the Brodie employees.

The Brodie trails are still visible from nearby Mt. Greylock State Park.

 

[MarzNC]

I've also skied a fair amount at Catamount over the years; it used to be quite run-down - the lodge, lifts, snow making, etc. but a new owner (whose family owns Berkshire East and he supposedly has "Wall Street" money) bought Catamount and built a new base lodge; replaced a few lifts; upgraded the snow making, etc.; spent quite a bit of money (I think it is crazy, in southern New England, to invest that much money in a ski area, given the poor winters we have been having; this year excepted).

For a sense of who the owner of Berkshire East and Catamount is, check out the interview with Storm Skiing Journal from 2023. There have been other interviews before that. Jon Schaeffer is one of the son's of the midwest man who bought Berkshire East in 1976. Jon left NYC quite a while ago and has become a key player in the northeast. His brother does a lot to manage operations at Beast. Jon is part of the group that just bought Burke Mountain. He was an active consultant to help bring back Bousquet on behalf of a local group of businessmen.

December 2023

Podcast #157: Berkshire East & Catamount Owner & GM Jon Schaefer

"There's a segment of the skiing population that, when they get to Berkshire East, they say, 'Wow, this is what I miss.'"

www.stormskiing.com

I visited Catamount one fall before the change in ownership. Skied there in late February before the last new lift was operational. The level of dedication of the local families involved with the ski teams was very clear given that snow conditions were lousy. There was no complaining as the kids waited for a base lift to open a bit late.

 

[berkshireskier]

The Berkshires were a preferred destination for families and racing programs from the Hudson Valley/NY Metro (Dutchess, Putnam, Westchester, etc.) areas. True New Yorkers / New Jersey-ites wound up on the other side of the Hudson in the Catskills - more crowded and unfriendly. Also, the Berkshires are too far from Boston and its M-ssholes.



I have only skied run-down Catamount, but it was fun. No one was there when it snowed. Trails were old school. However, it needed to join the modern era.

Belleayre and Highmont were also in a bit of disrepair during this time period.

Skiers were forced to ski Hunter Mountain early and late since it always had the largest skiable footprint in November, December, mid-March onwards, and April.



That place needed some love as well.

And I never understood why neighbor Mt. Tom closed down, since it was a decent 'hill' with lots of night skiing, close to Springfield/Amherst/etc.



I never heard that nickname, and cannot unhear it now.

Sorry! I'm not sure it's an official nickname but what I have called Butternut over the years.

 

[jasoncapecod]

I went to Bell today...around 15"...i will post some pics later
Spent most of the day in the woods due to zipper crust on the 15”.
Trails quickly became a cut up mess. So off to the woods fro much better conditions. High temp was 15 deg

 

[berkshireskier]

Marz: One of the best days I've ever had skiing in the Northeast (condition-wise) was about 30 years ago at Jiminy Peak. I went up for a day (it's about a 50-minute drive for me) and, although I don't think it was predicted by the weather forecasters, there were heavy snow squalls all during the day (I think it was cold front coming through) and it was already a winter in which we had had lots of natural snow, so the underlying conditions were very good. And there was almost no one skiing that day - truly like the proverbial country club skiing. We probably got 5 to 7 inches of new, very light powder during the course of the day and it was, like, New England powder skiing. It was snowing so hard that your tracks would be filled back in after only a couple of lift rides. And Jiminy did have the high speed 6 lift from the bottom to the top, so you could get in a huge number of runs. I still remember that I was skiing the Elan MBX skies (does anyone remember those?) in a 205 length (this was before the days of the parabolic skis) and they were fantastic in the sort of snow conditions. Along with Salomon at the time, Elan pioneered the monocoque (sic) design that supposedly made the skis more responsive and easier to turn, that most other ski manufacturers then copied, before turning to the shaped skis.

 

[berkshireskier]

When I got interested in the Berkshires in general, I got the book Lost Ski Areas of the Berkshires, by Jeremy Davis, 2018. When the Fairbanks bought Brodie the longterm idea was to build a $60 million 4-season resort, including a water park. They started by having a joint lift ticket and built a tubing park on Brodie land. As I remember from other sources, once it became clear what it would take to move forward, a challenge was issued to the local community. The idea was that a certain number of season passes needed to be purchased. The goal was not reached. The pivot was to sell the land and focus on further development of Jiminy Peak instead.

The local family who built Brodie went on to create a golf course on the other side of the mountain. Apparently Donnybrook Country Club absorbed many of the Brodie employees.

The Brodie trails are still visible from nearby Mt. Greylock State Park.

View attachment 49088

Brodie had been owned by the Kelly family. St. Patrick's Day was always a big party at Brodie. Yea, they turned the land into a 9-hole (I think) golf course and it has been recently sold to someone who is going to create a "glamping" site there. I never quite understood why Jiminy bought Brodie.

 

[ChrisC]

I never quite understood why Jiminy bought Brodie.

It seems their acquisition of Cranmore and later Bromley has gone OK.

The idea was that a certain number of season passes needed to be purchased. The goal was not reached. The pivot was to sell the land and focus on further development of Jiminy Peak instead.

The two ski areas are relatively close to one another. Shouldn't they always looked at the two ski areas collectively? But this was before the advent of Mega Passes, and I don't recall too many (if any) multi-area passes.

It's practically the same acquisition of Sugarbush buying Glen Ellen, later Sugarbush North, and now "Mount Ellen." Similarly, both areas are only about 10 minutes apart.

Anyway, I was always surprised that Brodie (a decent-sized mountain with a 1,200 ft vertical drop) would just get shut down. Things must have been really bad and sketchy.

 

[MarzNC]

The two ski areas are relatively close to one another. Shouldn't they always looked at the two ski areas collectively? But this was before the advent of Mega Passes, and I don't recall too many (if any) multi-area passes.

Being relatively close doesn't necessarily mean a joint pass makes any sense. Alta and Snowbird didn't have a joint pass for a long time.

In North Carolina, Beech Mountain and Sugar Mountain are perhaps 30 minutes apart on dry roads. They both have long-time ownership of over 50 years and very different operational styles and vibes. They both do well for different segments of the market. In northern Virginia, Bryce and Massanutten serve different segments of the DC/NoVA market and have for over 60 years based on very different business models. Both opened up new trails in recent years.

My sense from reading about Brodie is that it was very popular with locals and day trippers who didn't need slopeside lodging. Jiminy Peak built lodging and became a destination for families from NYC who wanted to make the drive up for multiple weekends. In the end, it was lack of investment in snowmaking and upgrading lifts that hurt Brodie by the 1990s. While more than one family member was actively involved in management, the Kelly family made the decision to sell. At the same time, the Fairbank family installed quad chairlifts in 1992 and 1998. Then a detachable 6-pack in 2000. That was unheard of in New England at that time.

 

[MarzNC]

It seems their acquisition of Cranmore and later Bromley has gone OK.

The Fairbank Group only operates Bromley. There is a long-time owner who bought it in 1986. Bromley dates from the 1930s.

There are real estate projects ongoing at Cranmore. The Fairbank father and son have shown that it's possible to build a successful business model that incorporates real estate development. They understand their market niche and take a long-term approach.