one big mother-gettin bigger!

Tony Crocker":3dhv878i said:
icelanticskier":3dhv878i said:
...the clearing/thinning of the summit snowfields/backside. the backside is great, but would be a lot better with more vert and area with thinning of vegetation. the burnt expansion is great too,...
Given average snowfall of 176 inches vs. 250-300+ in NVT, I'm guessing extensive clearing/thinning is going to be necessary to get this terrain skiable any more often than say, the Slides at Whiteface. Waiting for a natural "40-inch rule" won't do it here. Nonetheless Sugarloaf is near the top of the list of areas that interest me if I return to the Northeast sometime.

I thought Sugarloaf got more snow than that. When I was giving it a hard look, I thought I remembered 200-220" with a lot of snow in April.
 
Geoff":2wysprko said:
I thought Sugarloaf got more snow than that. When I was giving it a hard look, I thought I remembered 200-220" with a lot of snow in April.
The 176 inch annual average is over 44 years. I have monthly data for only 14 years, and the April average is just under 20 inches, and that includes the 107 in April 2007. Half of the 14 Aprils had less than 10 inches. Dec-Mar monthly averages are all between 36 and 39 inches. Volatility is high for the Northeast. The 389 inch max in 1995-96 is very high relative to the long term average.

FYI the 14 year average with the more complete data is 186 inches, so the older data may be missing a little, but not a lot.

From what I read here and elsewhere Sugarloaf is at its best in spring. The base is finally adequate, the sun gets high enough to soften the snow, but with altitude/latitude/exposure it doesn't melt down so fast as most Northeast areas. Those snow numbers tell me you need to be very lucky to get big powder days.
 
TONY, YER FORGETTING ABOUT WIND DEPOSITION. doesn't take a lot of snow to build deep bases where the wind blows it. then there's the cold to preserve it. mt washington only gets +- 230", but places ski well into june with snow 60+ feet deep in the lee.

the wind

rog
 
icelanticskier":1hkqu62m said:
TONY, YER FORGETTING ABOUT WIND DEPOSITION. doesn't take a lot of snow to build deep bases where the wind blows it. then there's the cold to preserve it. mt washington only gets +- 230", but places ski well into june with snow 60+ feet deep in the lee.

the wind

rog

I would guess that Mt. Washington gets more than 230" per year and that those measurements that are taken that give that number are done poorly. The wind could account for artificially lower numbers at the stake. I remember a thread about this before.
 
Yes, we had another thread on Mt. Washington. The reported average is ~300, and when we recall the measurement issues JSpin described in minute detail with respect to the Mansfield Stake, it's highly likely that 300 is understated. And while many eastern mountains are windy, Mt. Washington is in a class by itself.
 
Tony Crocker":27xmsa6w said:
...and when we recall the measurement issues JSpin described in minute detail with respect to the Mansfield Stake,....
That may well be the understatement of this board's entire history! 8) :lol:
 
snowmaking too. the loaf has really upped it's snowmaking up on the front face snowfields, which when it's blowing hard from the nw can load areas including the backside at times. i'm sure they'll make sure snow makes it back there now with the new clearing back there.

i had no idea that mt washington averages near 300 inches per year. i never really pay attention to totals, but more where the wind is blowing the snow that the summit does receive per event. this is due the fact that an inch or two up there can lead me to skiing boot top deep pow in the lee on many occasion. most folks don't get too excited about an inch or two of new, but up there it's more than enough reason for celebration for those in the know. thankfully there are only a few of us celebrating. :mrgreen:

rog
 
icelanticskier":1zczp69f said:
...the loaf has really upped it's snowmaking...
The percent of terrain open last season vs. prior years strongly supports this view. However, that probably has little relevance to the new gladed terrain.

icelanticskier":1zczp69f said:
up there it's more than enough reason for celebration for those in the know. thankfully there are only a few of us celebrating.
No argument here either. but I think Mt. Washington is a unique case, not so applicable to lift served areas:
1) Likely more snow. There's an extra 2,000 feet of altitude, and with 300 measured it wouldn't surprise me if the real number was 400.
2) Wind deposition has to be extreme. I think I read that the average wind speed year round is something like 35MPH.
 
As for the last couple yearly totals, the Loaf has caught every temperature jump/rain over the last two Januarys that motha nature could create, where the Green Mtns seemed to have stayed cooler = mostly all snow. What I think anything beyond King Pine they complete will offer us who have to drive 40mi+ through the beginning of cleanup hours some hope of untracked during D-Days.

$.01,
SteveD
 
BigSpencer":2ofs1n4p said:
As for the last couple yearly totals, the Loaf has caught every temperature jump/rain over the last two Januarys that motha nature could create, where the Green Mtns seemed to have stayed cooler = mostly all snow. What I think anything beyond King Pine they complete will offer us who have to drive 40mi+ through the beginning of cleanup hours some hope of untracked during D-Days.

$.01,
SteveD

in some cases yes, but the big dump in feb where 60-65 inches fell over 5 days (i was there), vermont got a bit less and it turned to glue there as temps rose and the loaf stayed cold enough to keep it dry. and then there's the late season preservation. the loaf had 50 trails open in late april where the most at any area in vermont was maybe 25% of that.

it all balances out.

rog
 
icelanticskier":1om1vz7p said:
BigSpencer":1om1vz7p said:
As for the last couple yearly totals, the Loaf has caught every temperature jump/rain over the last two Januarys that motha nature could create, where the Green Mtns seemed to have stayed cooler = mostly all snow. What I think anything beyond King Pine they complete will offer us who have to drive 40mi+ through the beginning of cleanup hours some hope of untracked during D-Days.

$.01,
SteveD

in some cases yes, but the big dump in feb where 60-65 inches fell over 5 days (i was there), vermont got a bit less and it turned to glue there as temps rose and the loaf stayed cold enough to keep it dry. and then there's the late season preservation. the loaf had 50 trails open in late april where the most at any area in vermont was maybe 25% of that.

it all balances out.

rog

That's kind of revisionist history. Killington got 5+ feet. I'm at 2000 feet and I had 5 feet in my yard. The mountain had more. The wind got at it so it was extremely wind packed but it never turned into glue. If Killington saw that much wind, I can only imagine what the main face of Sugarloaf was like.
 
actually, the loaf didn't see as much wind out of that one (no wind holds either) and friends in northern vermont said the snow got very wet later in that storm. looks like killington stayed colder too.

rog
 
icelanticskier":3btew4fv said:
actually, the loaf didn't see as much wind out of that one (no wind holds either) and friends in northern vermont said the snow got very wet later in that storm. looks like killington stayed colder too.

rog

...and Hunter got 7 feet from the storm.
 
Geoff":gx6jrdd8 said:
icelanticskier":gx6jrdd8 said:
actually, the loaf didn't see as much wind out of that one (no wind holds either) and friends in northern vermont said the snow got very wet later in that storm. looks like killington stayed colder too.

rog

...and Hunter got 7 feet from the storm.

:shock: epic...........

rog
 
Marc_C":2lac11i0 said:
Tony Crocker":2lac11i0 said:
...and when we recall the measurement issues JSpin described in minute detail with respect to the Mansfield Stake,....
That may well be the understatement of this board's entire history! 8) :lol:
And yet to apparently continue to not just read his posts, but comment on how long and tiring they are to get through. Interesting...
 
Mike Bernstein":1bcnhtlx said:
Marc_C":1bcnhtlx said:
Tony Crocker":1bcnhtlx said:
...and when we recall the measurement issues JSpin described in minute detail with respect to the Mansfield Stake,....
That may well be the understatement of this board's entire history! 8) :lol:
And yet to apparently continue to not just read his posts, but comment on how long and tiring they are to get through. Interesting...
Are you referring to me or Tony?
I actually don't read any of J's weather posts or TRs - I just look at the pictures.
 
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