One more step: Manitoba is getting closer to reality

[soulskier]

Regarding terrain, as I have stated before, this is in a superior league to anything in the lower 48. If you can name another zone with 2,ooo foot sustained 45+ degree slopes with generally safe(r) powder conditions, please do.

Hmmm:
A) the terrain you speak of is outside your boundaries... Am I wrong?
B) 45 degrees and powder out of bounds isn't "safe" or "safe-r". It's risky. Class 5 avys happen in maritime snow packs too, just ask most of the chugach powder guides. All it takes us one victim and your whole attitude towards the backcountry will change drastically. Remember, Alaska is part of the litigious USA.

I love discussing burly terrain with a resident of NYC, good stuff. For the record, I've skied first descents in both the Chugach and Andes, two of the raddest mountain ranges on the planet. I never mentioned that before but think it's applicable to this discussion.

Yes, all the high angle terrain is outside the boundary. It's likely that riders will only be allowed to leave the boundary with a guide, unless they have proven their credentials otherwise.

The thing about Alaska is the unique ability for the snow to stick and become stabilized on really steep terrain. Often time all it takes is one clear cold night. With the exception of Greenland, and maybe some remote spots in Northern BC, this is very uncommon. Look at a place like Chamonix or La Grave with similiar burly terrain. It's rare that it's ever boot top powder or deeper. Or better yet, watch any ski movie in the last 15 years with a budget and tell me what scene wowed you the most.

Yes there are Class 5 avalanches in this zone. In fact, usually around mid February there is a huge avalanche cycle, which cleans things up for the spring.

PS I have had several loved ones dies in avalanches, including two this spring. I have a huge respect for the mountains.

 

[socal]

Regarding terrain, as I have stated before, this is in a superior league to anything in the lower 48. If you can name another zone with 2,ooo foot sustained 45+ degree slopes with generally safe(r) powder conditions, please do.

Hmmm:
A) the terrain you speak of is outside your boundaries... Am I wrong?
B) 45 degrees and powder out of bounds isn't "safe" or "safe-r". It's risky. Class 5 avys happen in maritime snow packs too, just ask most of the chugach powder guides. All it takes us one victim and your whole attitude towards the backcountry will change drastically. Remember, Alaska is part of the litigious USA.

I love discussing burly terrain with a resident of NYC, good stuff. For the record, I've skied first descents in both the Chugach and Andes, two of the raddest mountain ranges on the planet. I never mentioned that before but think it's applicable to this discussion.

Yes, all the high angle terrain is outside the boundary. It's likely that riders will only be allowed to leave the boundary with a guide, unless they have proven their credentials otherwise.

The thing about Alaska is the unique ability for the snow to stick and become stabilized on really steep terrain. Often time all it takes is one clear cold night. With the exception of Greenland, and maybe some remote spots in Northern BC, this is very uncommon. Look at a place like Chamonix or La Grave with similiar burly terrain. It's rare that it's ever boot top powder or deeper. Or better yet, watch any ski movie in the last 15 years with a budget and tell me what scene wowed you the most.

Yes there are Class 5 avalanches in this zone. In fact, usually around mid February there is a huge avalanche cycle, which cleans things up for the spring.

PS I have had several loved ones dies in avalanches, including two this spring. I have a huge respect for the mountains.

I think the point is that marketing the ski area as having 2000 ft 45 degree slopes is misleading since almost none of it is in the ski area. Look at the terrain just out of the gates at Jackson, Whistler, Telluride, Baker, etc, pretty damn good and 1000s of miles closer plus on high avalanche hazard days you've got world class lift served and controlled places to enjoy.

I think the idea is great but I just don't see people dealing with the travel and hassle of getting to Alaska skiing the side country. AK to me is where you go to drop money and cat/heli ski. Sure you'll find some hardcore types but like this thread all started off with, its a locals resort.

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[rfarren]

I love discussing burly terrain with a resident of NYC, good stuff.

You don't need to live in the mountains to clearly see that the world class terrain you're trying to advertise is out of bounds. You don't need to live in the mountains to have skied and understand that 45+ degree slopes are dangerous. You don't need to live in NYC to be arrogant either.

For the record, I've skied first descents in both the Chugach and Andes, two of the raddest mountain ranges on the planet. I never mentioned that before but think it's applicable to this discussion.

Good for you. That's great, I just hope you have the raddest understanding of what litigious society means when things go wrong.

Yes, all the high angle terrain is outside the boundary. It's likely that riders will only be allowed to leave the boundary with a guide, unless they have proven their credentials otherwise.

I don't know how you'll prove credentials, but certainly guided tours is a smart start.

The thing about Alaska is the unique ability for the snow to stick and become stabilized on really steep terrain. Often time all it takes is one clear cold night. With the exception of Greenland, and maybe some remote spots in Northern BC, this is very uncommon.

I'm quite aware of that. I do believe that the back-country there will be special, however, there aren't a ton of people who will utilize it especially when you consider the vast majority of the skiers will be locals. When you account for the cost of getting to AK (the rest of us who live in the lower 48) is it worth going there to ski Manitoba, especially if you're forced to pay for a guide to ski the only worthwhile terrain there? If I'm doing that I might as well just pay for a heli/cat trip.

Yes there are Class 5 avalanches in this zone. In fact, usually around mid February there is a huge avalanche cycle, which cleans things up for the spring.
PS I have had several loved ones dies in avalanches, including two this spring. I have a huge respect for the mountains.

Clearly you do, but your patrons may not, which was my point. Furthermore, when the slope is steeper than 45 degrees avalanches aren't the only things that will ruin your day.

Ultimately, I think you're being disingenuous when you keep pushing this burly terrain as part of Manitoba. I don't doubt it exist out of bounds, I don't doubt it's uniqueness nor its burly-ness, but it isn't in bounds and you keep advertising it as if it were.

 

[soulskier]

We have never stated that the burly terrain is in bounds. We have always stated that within a 2 hour hike, there is access to 10,000 acres of big mountain terrain.

For the record, slopes over 45 degrees are generally safer than those in the 35-44 range, as they continually sluff and don't tend to build up big slabs.

If you want to have a sensible discussion on our operating model and how we will keep our guests from dying, fire away.

 

[soulskier]

We are honored to be featured in the month's Powder Magazine. Instead of reading my senseless chatter, I invite you to read Global Editor Matt Hansen's article, "The Skier's Answer, Can A Tiny Ski Area in Alaska Redefine Resort Development"

 

[Geoff]

Thought you guys might enjoy this clay model of Manitoba Mountain to add to the discussion.

I want to see the mashed potato Manitoba

 

[Tony Crocker]

If you want to have a sensible discussion on our operating model and how we will keep our guests from dying, fire away.

Actually we do. I think rfarren's point there is important. Especially since

you keep pushing this burly terrain as part of Manitoba. I don't doubt it exist out of bounds, I don't doubt it's uniqueness nor its burly-ness, (or its ease of accessibility TC) but it isn't in bounds and you keep advertising it as if it were.

Again, I really liked the topography of the area once I saw a good picture of it. I would absolutely visit Manitoba myself if I were in the area, even if as likely I would also be spending time with Chugach Powder Guides. But I think the advertising and liability issues could get related. I know the lawyer representing your first casualty will try to relate them. As rfarren noted, this is still the US, not France or New Zealand.

 

[soulskier]

If you want to have a sensible discussion on our operating model and how we will keep our guests from dying, fire away.

Actually we do. I think rfarren's point there is important. Especially since

you keep pushing this burly terrain as part of Manitoba. I don't doubt it exist out of bounds, I don't doubt it's uniqueness nor its burly-ness, (or its ease of accessibility TC) but it isn't in bounds and you keep advertising it as if it were.

Again, I really liked the topography of the area once I saw a good picture of it. I would absolutely visit Manitoba myself if I were in the area, even if as likely I would also be spending time with Chugach Powder Guides. But I think the advertising and liability issues could get related. I know the lawyer representing your first casualty will try to relate them. As rfarren noted, this is still the US, not France or New Zealand.

Alright then, I'm glad we have that cleared up.

I'm happy to announce that we have recruited a team of industry snow safety specialists to assist us in developing our B/C operating model.

It's also worth mentioning the Silverton has not had an avalanche death in 10 seasons of operations. And the San Juans have a way sketchier snowpack than in Alaska.

 

[socal]

It's also worth mentioning the Silverton has not had an avalanche death in 10 seasons of operations. And the San Juans have a way sketchier snowpack than in Alaska.

Don't they do avalanche control on all of their terrain they let people ski on? Is that your plan too?

 

[Admin]

Don't they do avalanche control on all of their terrain they let people ski on? Is that your plan too?

Not to mention that it's guided skiing only during the core of the season.

 

[soulskier]

Here's an interesting article about Valdez, Alaska.

Can Skiing Save Valdez, Alaska?

http://www.skinet.com/skiing/photo-gall ... dez-alaska

 

[rfarren]

Ultimately this article basically shows a serious issue when it comes to Alaska. It is really far away from the rest of us and very sparsely populated. As much as it pains me to say this: skiing is a fringe sport, few do it, and many of those people aren't fanatical enough to travel that far for it. Therefore I don't know if skiing is capable of saving any economy. I know at least in NYC I'm the exception to rule and what worries me is that I'm less likely to go to Alaska than Europe for skiing. I know they are apples and oranges, and I know that the snow and terrain are ultimately better in Alaska, but if I'm going to travel that far (and convince my wife to do so) I have a feeling I'm going to Europe. Maybe I could convince a bunch of buddies to make that trip to Manitoba Mountain (although Utah would stand in it's way due to its proximity and ease). On the other hand a Heli trip to Alaska is an exotic once in a lifetime type trip which I would most definitely drop anything to do (that would also mean I've got the money to do that trip too!)

 

[soulskier]

Our project manager Dave Scanlan discusses Manitoba Mountain and the global vision of MRA with NASJA West President Jerry Hoffman.

http://soundcloud.com/mtnra/mra-project ... ve-scanlan

 

[jamesdeluxe]

NASJA West President Jerry Hoffman

Tony's rapprochement with MRA can kick into high gear now that they have the attention of NASJA. :lol:

 

[Tony Crocker]

I have been aware of Jerry Hoffman's involvement with MRA for some time.

 

[soulskier]

This one's for Tony. Here's Manitoba this weekend, looking good for October.

 

[soulskier]

Manitoba Mountain inspired the artwork on the MRA limited edition skis.

 

[Admin]

Here's a story you're not likely to see on the MRA website:
http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/p ... untry-fans

 

[soulskier]

Here's a story you're not likely to see on the MRA website:
http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/p ... untry-fans

Here's a good one, lots of good comments for both pro and con

http://www.adn.com/2011/12/17/2223154/g ... close.html

Group pushes for ski area on Kenai Peninsula

Anchorage Daily News, December 18

 

[Tony Crocker]

Interesting article with commentary from the locals. It is certainly ironic that MRA faces opposition from Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyplace environmental zealots. Other comments expressed some of the economic concerns (inadequate local population base, thus failure of other ski areas in Alaska other than Alyeska). One mentioned Hatcher Pass, which used to have catskiing and is closer to Anchorage.