Peak Rankings List of Best US Ski Areas video

jimk

jimk

Active member
Not sure if this 38 minute video/list from November 2024 has been discussed here already this fall, but I thought it was a pretty intelligent and entertaining assessment.
They rank 25 US ski destinations from worst to best. The big one I might quibble with is Palisades-Tahoe being placed down in the middle of the pack behind such areas as Keystone, Winter Park, and Beaver Creek. I guess they knock P-T for less than ideal snow conditions, but IMHO it certainly has MUCH more interesting terrain than those three.

Worst to Best USA ranking: North*, Crystal, PowMow, Kirkwood, Heavenly, Schweitzer, PCMR, SolBrite, DV, Whitefish, Steamboat, Sun Valley, P-T, Mammoth, WP, Keystone, Copper, Breck, Big Sky, BC, Telluride, Snowmass, Vail, JH, AltaBird.

There are five on the list I've never visited, North*, Crystal, Schweitzer, Whitefish, and Sun Valley. It's always interesting to hear about places I've not been to yet and how they might compare to those I have. They left a couple of really good ones off the list, Taos and Crested Butte, due to not having more than 2000 skiable acres.
 
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I missed in an earlier thread that jimk had never been to Sun Valley. I think Crystal is top 10 in North America in terrain quality though it's strictly a regional area.

As noted before, I'm extremely resistant to spending 38 minutes watching a video whose information and rationale could be consumed in print in 5 minutes. What are the criteria quoted as informing the rankings? Does it include non-ski factors like SKI Magazine was notorious for, resulting in a string of #1's for Deer Valley?
jimk said:
They left a couple of really good ones off the list, Taos and Crested Butte, due to not having more than 2000 skiable acres.
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This is an example of a poor way to construct a list. I'm one of those who thinks scale of a ski area is important, but that means that a 1,500 acre ski area might get half the credit for scale that a 3,000 acre ski area gets, not that it should get zero points for size or be excluded completely. And that means high scores for other criteria (expert terrain for CB, Taos) might be enough to push an area on to the list.

jimk said:
It's always interesting to hear about places I've not been to yet and how they might compare to those I have.
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Here's a comparison for you. Targhee has 2,600 acres, Brighton 1,050 and Solitude 1,200. All 3 are elite for snow conditions, though I'd argue Targhee is a bit better than Solbright. As I don't see that much difference in terrain quality or base infrastructure, why is Solbright on the list and Targhee not?

Overall I'd trust ZRankings over Peak Rankings. I have some bias because Chris Steiner gave me control over the snow reliability part of ZRankings.

In another reference, someone noted that many PeakRankings videos are based upon a single visit. Steiner and I have some differences of opinion about certain ski areas, but I'm quite sure he has multiple visits to the places he rates in the top 30-50.
 
jimk said:
Not sure if this 38 minute video/list from November 2024 has been discussed here already this fall, but I thought it was a pretty intelligent and entertaining assessment.
They rank 25 US ski destinations from worst to best. The big one I might quibble with is Palisades-Tahoe being placed down in the middle of the pack behind such areas as Keystone, Winter Park, and Beaver Creek. I guess they knock P-T for less than ideal snow conditions, but IMHO it certainly has MUCH more interesting terrain than those three.

Worst to Best USA ranking: North*, Crystal, PowMow, Kirkwood, Heavenly, Schweitzer, PCMR, SolBrite, DV, Whitefish, Steamboat, Sun Valley, P-T, Mammoth, WP, Keystone, Copper, Breck, Big Sky, BC, Telluride, Snowmass, Vail, JH, AltaBird.

There are five on the list I've never visited, North*, Crystal, Schweitzer, Whitefish, and Sun Valley. It's always interesting to hear about places I've not been to yet and how they might compare to those I have. They left a couple of really good ones off the list, Taos and Crested Butte, due to not having more than 2000 skiable acres.
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No Mt Bachelor? Thats seems curious to me.
 
Like Tony, I wasn't going to watch a long video, but managed to go to the contents and click right away on the section I was looking for, 16th being where I thought I should find Whitefish. And I got it on the first guess! Just speaking to the fog issue, it's been pretty bad here lately as temps just hover around the mid 20's to low 30's. This looking up the busiest section of the mountain (the Ant Hill) on my second run of the day. Bring your yellow lenses and your Skigee. Yes, rime on the goggles to go along with the fog. By 11 AM, Christmas crowds meant it was like playing pinball wearing glasses covered in flannel.
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I am unsure how they made the video since it does not align with their rankings. Here are PeakRankings stats and criteria

Criteria Link

Rankings Link

Again, a lot of one visits. He visited Banff/Louise/Panorama during an exceptional snow year, and they all got great snow scores. That's not always true.

He visited Zermatt during a super bad snow year and wrote about how Zermatt has no challenge or off-piste: "Zermatt is the best mediocre ski resort in the world." Link This could not be further from the truth - a top 5 Euro resort for me, but wait till mid-February/March most years. The following areas have exceptional off-piste (Hohtalli, Rothorn, Hirli, upper Cervinia, -- even the Scharzwegletcher). He was stuck on icy groomers at Zermatt - no wonder he's complaining!

However, it's interesting to read some of their reviews. I cannot always sit through 30-60-minute videos.
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Thanks for the links. I could spend a lot of time dissecting those categories and rankings. Overall at least they concentrate on on-mountain categories, probably do as good a job as ZRankings on that.

ChrisC notes correctly that some of the grading stands out like a sore thumb, notably the outlier positive snow and resilience for ratings Banff/Lake Louise. In fairness I've skied Lake Louise in 7 different seasons and the snow is generally much better than one would expect based upon its snowfall. OTOH I modified my plans the last 2 ski seasons NOT to go there based upon likely low tide conditions. Craig Morris in Fernie would never say the words "Lake Louise" without including the word "Ptex "in the same sentence.:icon-lol:

How should one rate snow conditions? PeakRankings Resiliency category is not well constructed IMHO.
  1. Opens their terrain consistently throughout the season
  2. Recovers their snow surface after poor weather (e.g., freeze-thaw cycles)
  3. Keeps lifts running consistently (e.g., avoids holds due to wind, ice, or mechanical issues)
  4. Grooms their groomed terrain regularly (e.g., nightly vs. less frequently)
  5. Keeps other essential infrastructure up-and-running
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As the authors clearly value expert technical skiing, it seems lost on them that technical terrain cannot recover its snow surface or even stay open after a rain/freeze for example by any other means than a big dump of natural snow.

For ZRankings I slightly modified Steiner's Snow Score which accounted for quantity, consistency and density of snowfall. To that I added a Snow Preservation Score based upon altitude, latitude, exposure and rain incidence. I think the ideal for Snow is to have 3 categories targeting coverage, powder and preservation. The latter two are reasonably constructed by formula as I did for ZRankings. For coverage the bottom line is what's open, the stat I always emphasize at this time of year. This is not well modeled by algorithm due mainly to varied topography (Alta vs. Snowbird is Exhibit A), and thus is best determined by historical data. I have about 20 years of that, but only for 50-60 ski areas. An unlike snowfall stats, almost no ski area archives its snow reports over a long time frame, so expanding that info beyond the areas that happened to interest me 20 years ago is unlikely.
 
PeakRankings also toured South America this summer. He went to Las Lenas after a drought period, so he was confined to pistes. And he did not realize the scope of Las Lenas so I am not sure how that review will go. I tried to reach out to see if we would cross paths in Bariloche, but missed by a week.

He also wrote an article about how Telluride permanently closed Gold Hill chutes 3 and 4. Me: They have permanently been closed and never open but are labeled on the map. Some years, they will open upper Gold Hill 2 to lower Gold Hill 3. He said, "No, Chris, it's a new policy, and I uncovered it." Me: OK, whatever.

So, I am unsure how well he takes criticism or alternative viewpoints.
 
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ChrisC said:
And he did not realize the scope of Las Lenas so I am not sure how that review will go.
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I don't understand how someone who visits hundreds of ski areas can't understand what they know vs. what they don't know. On my first Las Lenas week in 2005, Marte off piste was open one day. So only after I returned a decade later did I get a more complete experience. And even then the backcountry that Staley loves was/is beyond my pay grade, along with some of Marte's more extreme lines like Frankie's. Hopefully we will see ChrisC's TR before too long to cover some of that ground.

Usually even in a one day visit I make the effort to survey all sectors of an area to get a fair idea what it has to offer. But at Courchevel and Courmayeur that did not happen the first time so I had revisits in 2024. At one of the new 2024 areas, Aletsch Arena, I had as limited an experience as those first visits to Courchevel and Courmayeur.
 
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Tony Crocker said:
Usually even in a one day visit I make the effort to survey all sectors of an area to get a fair idea what it has to offer
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There are a few areas in the Alps where I wanted to check off specific terrain (or have so much to offer) that I have visited more than once:
  • Chamonix - 5x (2005, 2006, 2018 - 2x, 2024)
  • Val d'Isere - 3x (2006, 2018, 2024)
  • Zermatt - 3x (2004 summer, 2018 - 2x)
  • Verbier - 3x (2005, 2006, 2019)
  • Courmayeur & heli - 3x (2005, 2018, 2023)
  • Andermatt - 2x (2019, 2020)
  • Les 2 Alpes - 2x (2006, 2023)
  • Serre Chevalier - 2x (2006, 2023)

The revisits are indicative of how much I like the place. My favorite European areas are as follows:
  1. Val d'Isere/Tignes and St. Anton/Zurs/Lech
  2. Verbier
  3. Chamonix and Zermatt
  4. Andermatt and Engelberg (They are so close, connected by train, I link them together)
  5. Courmayeur and 3 Vallees: Val Thorens/Meriberl/Courchevel
 
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