Potpourri w/ a twist of whistla

Oh... and honestly, I actually hugely prefer the 1h15 of Shefford (with its uncomfortable t-bars)to the 1h15 of Tremblant.
 
Saudan Couloir was renamed Couloir Extreme. <BR> <BR>About Paradise, did you have to jump a mini-cliff/icefall when you came out of the woods at the start? If you turn before the long trail in the woods, you took Fall Line. <BR> <BR>Personally, I like Paradise, but I don't know if it the steepest. Cut down all the trees and what would it look like? It would definately be less challenging. <BR>I seem to recall that Upper FIS at Sugarbush was fairly steep. <BR>White-Nitro at Sugarloaf. <BR>The Slides at Whiteface. <BR>The S trails at Ste.Anne. <BR>Double Dipper(?) at Killington. <BR>Goat and Starr at Stowe. <BR> <BR>With the exception of the last two, all these trails are steep, wide and mostly groomed. <BR> <BR>How would Paradise (just steepness, folk) would compare? According to the areas stats (Powder article) - Paradise is the steepest.
 
If you compare the "S" trails with the other ones, the other ones lose a lot of interest for mine. The "S" have a very long pitch, but thinking to that, can we really name that "steep" ? <BR> <BR>Don't you worry, I took Fall Line too. Fall Line is actually the trail looking more like Contour that I took. But Contour is 150% higher, 200% tougher and 50000000000% more interesting in my opinion. I just went once at MRG, but I skied all the black runs except : Gazelle, Gazelle Glades (lack of time), Ferret, Lynx, Lower Glade & Creamery (all closed). I rushed a little bit to find the entrance of Paradise, but I finally found it, on the beginning of Fall line. <BR> <BR>Question about the start... is it always a mini-cliff or icefall. It was completely icy on the start when I went, like many spots on the mountain, but I didn't think it was normal. This is the only spot of the trail explaining why I still rate it "double black +" <BR> <BR>In my opinion, Paradise is steep, but not scary at all. You would need a very bad fall to die in that trail, compared to some official trails in the less known ski areas in Qc.
 
Goodman's measurements and ratings (perhaps McLean used them as a guide or vice-versa) completely make sense to me. The difference between Paradise and the other trails on his list is that Paradise stays 30+ for the whole length of the run and the others quickly drop into the 20's. When you're used to sustained 30+ western runs (albeit wider with better snow), this difference was very obvious to me at last March. <BR> <BR>I'll have to disagree on Left Gully. IMHO it's less than 45 (except in an initial lip at the top, like Hangman's). I'd guess 40 on the upper part, then trending to 35. Very similar to Chair 22 Avalanche Chutes at Mammoth. Definitely not as steep or dangerous as Big Couloir, which I once saw quoted as average 42 for the entire 1,000 vertical.
 
But Paradise in never really steep. <BR>So why count it like the steepest or so ? <BR>For Left Gully, of course, the ±55 degrees are just the cornice at top. <BR> <BR>An idea about the degree of the very very top cornice of Hangman's ?
 
The slope directly below my ski tips at the bottom of the second picture probably is 55 degrees. But I (or 99% of the skiers up there) would never jump in directly that way except in very deep powder. There's a traverse track to skier's right leading to the area Adam is skiing in the the first picture, which is probably in the 40 range. <BR> <BR>The length of these runs really is an important factor due to consequences of falling. There's also a difference between making 5 turns and a couple of hundred with that exposure. <BR> <BR>With regard to Paradise I recall reading that originally it was a completely natural glade, narrower and with more obstacles than now. And every description mentions the frozen waterfall. The waterfall was shorter than I expected and the room to maneuver below it more than I expected. <BR> <BR>What are the key differences between the eastern and western runs? The eastern runs are much more confined by obstacles, ice patches, etc. with numerous places where a turn must be made in a specific spot. The western runs are steeper, but Hangman's is a good example of there being only one such critical spot. <BR> <BR>I suspect it's easier for the expert eastern skier to translate the skills from the 30-35 steepness range up to 40-45 than for us westerners to deal with the thin, variable or especially icy surfaces. Thus I took a pass on the tougher off-piste stuff at Jay when it had hard snow.
 
I've looked the pic of Hangman's few minutes and according to the pic, I don't think I would rush too much doing Hangman's cornice, unless there is "blue ice". It's sure that the global pitch is enough high, so you can slide a while, if you fall down, but I don't think this is steeper than the middle/lower part of Pins Rouges which may be about 2x higher than the cornice of Hangman's. (I mean 2x higher than from your skis to the skier in red (Adam I guess). <BR> <BR>A sure thing, it's the same feeling of steeeeeeeeepness with enough vertical that I just saw at 3 different places by myself : Pins Rouges of VSC, Super (top wall... at Orford) and one place that I shouldn't talk of, in the backcountry of Mt Shefford. (I wonder if I'm the only one to have skied that in the 40 years history of Mt Shefford). As you said, there is a difference of doing this steepness for 5 turns or 50, but when you arrive at 15-20 turns, it begins to be about the same than 50. <BR> <BR>About Paradise, I was surprised to see the icefall, just at the beginning after the traverse on the Long trail. As I was used to enter into la "Passe de l'Ours" at Orford, this wasn't a problem for me to pass there, but I was a little bit surprised (la Passe de l'ours has a similar icefall, but it passes between rocks with 3-4 feet wide only and I think it's longer than the icefall on Paradise. You can also jump over a 15-20 feet high cliff, but it's really hairy and I never did it cause it's flat at bottom and the powder generally doesn't stay a lot of time there). PDO is less steep than Paradise, but it's 2x longer and it is tougher, in my opinion. <BR> <BR>Effectively, here, the ice is quite more common than in the west and we would never see 3' of powder in the extremely steep places. The PR almost doesn't hold the snow at all and it doesn't help that VSC is on a completely south side. But as long as there is a little bit of sun, in the early spring skiing season, there is nice turns to do there ! Except the supersteep thin spot, on march 28, the conditions were absolutely perfect on the PR. <BR> <BR>About the east/west skiers, as I talked above, there is somewhere a limit of "feeling safe" in one trail, when it becomes too steep. I just felt this feeling in 3 trails, are less than 328' high (100m), (but all over 150-200' high). So doing some trails like that of over 500' high would be pretty scary for most of people in the east, I guess. About the westerners, I admit it's not always easy to ski some steep trails when it's icy... especially when you're not used to that, like some westerners.
 
I would call the 'S' trails steep. What I was trying to say, is if Paradise was a wide open, how would it look like. White-Nitro and Slides are probably steeper (I generally don't try to compare them). <BR>In regards to Paradise, I believe that it had more trees and tighter the first few times I took it. First time I skied at MRG would be 1994. Many trees at MRG (and elsewhere) where severly affected by the 98' Ice Storm plus Hurricane Floyd. <BR>As for the Waterfall, it all depends on the amount of snow. I remember on the last big snow year (2001?), it was bearly noticeable. Hard to estimate, but on a bad snow year it most be something like 5-6ft.
 
You talk of lenght or height ? for 5-6 feet ? <BR> <BR>For me, it was more 5-6' high than long, if I remember correctly <BR> <BR>I believe you, for more trees before the ice-storm. Just a question, the Paradise is on the trail map of the resort just since 1995-96... was it existing before ?? as you seem to say you took it in 1994 ? <BR> <BR>For the Passe de l'Ours, this is a good pic to see how it's like. It's from the jan. 2000 swampfest. From where the 2 skiers are, they have 2 choices. Between the rocks or doing the cliff. They're exactly at the same level than the cliff, it's a matter of distance why they look below. This pass can be 2 things : Blue ice or 100% rock. There is absolutely no other way to reach the trail, unless missing 25% (or 50%) of the trail, passing by Contour to reach it. The good thing is that many people don't take the trail cause they don't want to pass there... so after that pass, it's always good ! <BR> <BR><IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/messages/8/2682.jpg" ALT="PDO pass">
 
5-6ft in height. <BR>Yes, Paradise was not on the trailmap the first time I went to MRG. I eventually found it. For what I know, It was a homemade line (ie. Cut it yourself type of trail), which eventually because an official trail. My guess, it has been there for a while. The first time I heard about it is from the Powder mag I mentioned (1989).
 
Ok, I see for the trail. It's a little bit the same thing with many extreme glades in the north east. Just at Orford, I've skied Porc-Épic, Passe de l'Ours and Écureuil before their opening... and if Chevreuil and Zig-Zag become some trails, it will be the same. Those are absolutely illegally cut trails in the woods of Mt Orford and for the 3 first, they just widened a little bit. Many people say that the mountain was secretly encouraging the die-hards to clear some paths in the woods to make some new trails without the resort cut some trees... what they're not allowed to do by the government. I know there was also something in the Lacroix or Dubreuil zone, far before the ice storm and the opening of those trails.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top