Frankontour
New member
I think we should try this in many mountains, Cancat, cause since 10 years, the bumps amount in the ski areas really decreased. I understood how the change was huge, looking to this old brochure pic of Mt Saint-Sauveur. Those 2 trails (middle part of the 70s east/west) are always 100% groomed now, except a narrow section in the very lower part of the right one. I've never seen them with moguls like that of my own eyes, although I went over 30 times in 15 years. (I must say the pic was larger and the other trails beside were also bumped) <BR> <BR><IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/messages/8/2650.jpg" ALT="MSS in the late 70s"> <BR> <BR>I absolutely don't like the groomed terrain and I know I'm not alone, so we should all let the ski areas know that it would be good to let more moguls + wild terrain !!!
"> and western orientation. <BR> <BR>The challenge of moguls lies in 3 factors: steepness, spacing and snow conditions. <BR> <BR>Steepness is the one I do best, from all my time at places like Mammoth and Snowbird. Paradise at Mad River is the only eastern run I saw which had double-black pitch by western standards. <BR> <BR>Stowe was a nice illustration of the effect of spacing. Goat and Starr are never groomed and very narrow with tight bumps, and thus deserve their double-black ratings despite a less than 30 degree pitch. Liftline and National are much wider, and the bump spacing indicates an intermittent grooming schedule. I think these should be rated single black, but on the other hand are excellent for upper intermediates or non-bump specialists such as myself to practice on. Chin Clip and the woods to its skier's left present similar challenge with tighter spacing but less steepness. <BR> <BR>Mad River had as much bump skiing as I have seen anywhere. And most of the runs below mid-station (Lynx, Beaver, Ferret, etc.) are intermediate in pitch but with lots of moguls for aspiring bumpers. <BR> <BR>I do believe that snow conditions are a key ingredient in the disappearance of many mogul trails. I don't know anyone who likes skiing bumps in hard snow (you easterners can correct me on this if you want). On day 3 of my trip when the temps dropped from 65F to 35F I mostly confined myself to groomers at Jay. <BR> <BR>Then day 4 at Stoneham illustrated (as I have seen at Snow Summit) that motivated management can actually grind up the hardpack, add some snowmaking and recreate a packed powder surface, which is what most skiers want. I did take 2 off-piste runs that day: certainly more interesting terrain, but hardpack or crusty surfaces that didn't make me want to come back for more. <BR> <BR>So what choices do the eastern areas have with their mogul runs when the weather is uncooperative? <BR> <BR>1.) Leave them alone (like MRG) and the skiers just have to be patient and wait for warm weather or a dump to ski them again. <BR>2.) Grind them up and resurface with snowmaking (like Stoneham and presumably many others) on the theory that it's better to have trails skiable than unskiable. <BR>3.) A different suggestion voiced above that only snowmaking be done without resurfacing. I'm not sure how well that would work but it's probably worth a try. <BR> <BR>I think common sense by management should want to keep interesting terrain available for everyone. At most of the large western areas I ski, there is plenty of ungroomed (and often ungroomable) terrain, and moguls will be inevitable with skier traffic anytime it doesn't snow for a few days. <BR> <BR>If there are only trails management discretion is more important. From what I saw I think Stowe had it about right.
I don't know exactly how it is in degrees, but I think it's only slightly less steep than the Pins Rouges of VSC. May be 5 degrees less steep for the top pitch of Hangman's. I think the PR is about 55 degrees in the rocky middle part. The top and base are between 45 and 50. So the Paradise of MRG is a real joke compared to the Pins Rouges. I just went once at MRG, but there is only Paradise, Fall-line and Liftline (doing the cliff) that I could give a real double black and I must say the conditions were extremely thin in the bad snow year I went there. <BR> <BR>In the east, the real big ones are easy to find, I think. Jay has the top of Tram which looks quite hairy (unskiable the 2 times I went), there is the Tramline Trail at Cannon, The top of Madonna at Smuggs and except that, I honestly rush to find something else in New England. (may be ski Denton in Pennsylvania ! hahaha). MRG has an incredible terrain, but IN the trails, the challenge is honestly low. I skied Burke too = no challenge at all, but nice glades. In Quebec, we have few crazy trails like the Pins Rouges, like all the top of La Réserve, Mt Alta, Mt Orford on the main side + Giroux side, Mt Adstock, Le Massif DU SUD for steepness and Mt Édouard, according to Marc. But our mountains offer quite limited extreme terrain compared to the west, that's sure at 100000%. <BR> <BR>Generally, our mountains offer some less good conditions, but less variable too, than in New England, cause it rarely unfreeze. It may be why there is few ski areas that offer a lot of moguls, compared to some ski areas like Loon, Cannon, etc. (I'm sure the little Mt. Alta offer 5x more moguls skiing than Cannon). There is also the fact that if the conditions are not good and there is some accidents, the people could possibly pursue the ski areas, in USA (not in Canada), so they think grooming all is less dangereous for them. <BR> <BR> <BR>Anyone have some examples of true challenge in the east ?? (inside the official trail network)
