Project 101: USA Road Trip

[Tony Crocker]

My impression is that three or four star lodging convenient to lifts in Europe is far less expensive that in Colorado or Big Sky. We will be in Big Sky a couple of nights early March and there is nothing on hotels.com or booking.com under $700/night. Fortunately we found an Airbnb for about half that. $400 a night will get you a very nice place in the Alps for a couple including half board dinners.

 

[Harvey]

WorldSkiTraveller: Collector of Ski Areas

6 weeks, 79 ski areas in 18 states.

nyskiblog.com

 

[Tony Crocker]

James, what happened to the Stowe and Front Four questions? It's a concrete example that WorldSkiTraveller's methodology is so superficial that he misses the essence of a prominent area like Stowe.

I'm not critical of collecting a bunch of small places, even though I personally draw a line in that department (see exception I will post shortly). I'm critical of visiting larger places for 2-3 hours and checking them off the list when you really did not experience them properly. I'll bet Arnie Wilson and Jimmy Petterson didn't do it that way.

 

[Sbooker]

My impression is that three or four star lodging convenient to lifts in Europe is far less expensive that in Colorado or Big Sky. We will be in Big Sky a couple of nights early March and there is nothing on hotels.com or booking.com under $700/night. Fortunately we found an Airbnb for about half that. $400 a night will get you a very nice place in the Alps for a couple including half board dinners.

The last time I stayed in Big Sky and Colorado (Aspen) was late February 2020. Things have obviously changed. At those prices I won't ski either place again unless I'm passing through and stay in Bozeman/Glenwood Springs.
I'll be disappointed if I pay more than $100usd per night for accommodation when I'm in Europe in a few weeks.

 

[Sbooker]

I'm critical of visiting larger places for 2-3 hours and checking them off the list when you really did not experience them properly

Very strange indeed in my opinion. I must admit though that I once did half a day at Alpine Meadows and half a day at Squaw because we were limited for days in the area and I really wanted to see both. It was before they were connected obviously.

I guess that fellow's goal is to check off areas so I suppose he's achieving that.

 

[EMSC]

Because skiing is only one part of the experience. Driving, walking around, eating, speaking with locals, and observing are just as important to me. It becomes something like a biography of a place. When you move expeditiously like this, you see so many things

Humorous thought process. It's kinda hard to walk around, eat, speak with the locals, etc... when you are only at a place for 90minutes max. I'm pretty sure I've heard repeatedly how you DON'T learn about a place/locality by skimming through in an hour or two. Especially if you explicitly avoid all signature aspects of the area. You know, spend 2hrs in Paris and you certainly know it deeply and never need to return, lol.

His style is certainly his own, but he is definitely not a skier. Just someone with a list who happens to be able to ski.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

His style is certainly his own, but he is definitely not a skier.

I'm pleased that several FTOers have engaged with this story over the past six weeks, even if mainly to air their outrage or question Worldskitraveller's bona fides as a skier. As I noted upthread, I'm fascinated as much by the pearl-clutching here as by his "extreme breadcrumb" approach to the sport. It's as if we were on a foodie forum and I posted an interview with someone in New Orleans who ate nothing but Popeye's for a year and all of you kept getting triggered by it ("how dare he live within walking distance of so many world-class restaurants and eat nothing but fast food?!?").

someone with a list who happens to be able to ski.

In a variation of this comment, I see Worldskitraveller's undertaking as a logistical stunt that happens to have skiing as its framework. I was especially entertained by the daily game plans -- I included the one he used for the Poconos -- which look like a train schedule and include exact time estimates for both driving and skiing ("a humorous thought process," as EMSC calls it). I mentioned in the piece being awed by his ability to keep up that exhausting pace, especially the constant lodging changes. Unless I were being paid for it, I'd throw in the towel after two, three weeks tops.

At the same time, my visits to the Alps have an adjacent format in that I usually make one-day stops at obscure ski areas instead of staying a week at a big, famous resort. It's very pleasant to be headquartered at one ski area + hotel (I've done it at the Portes du Soleil, Val d'Isere, Ischgl, and the Arlberg) and enjoy breakfast + dinner at the same restaurant downstairs/half-board. I have to weigh those upsides against my variety-junkie instincts and the latter usually wins out.

WorldSkiTraveller's methodology is so superficial that he misses the essence of a prominent area like Stowe.

Worldskitraveller makes no claims about wanting to acquire a deep understanding of a ski area's essence. In fact, he clearly states the opposite: the advantages of getting a quick overview of a place and then moving on. Of course, I don't "agree" with it as something I would undertake or condone for someone whose main objective is "quality skiing," however we define it.

Still, I suspect that many of us have done something similar while travelling overseas. I'm approaching the 40-year anniversary of my month-long Interrail trip in which I went from city to city by train, rarely spending more than a day in each. Similar to our peripatetic Swiss protagonist, by the end I was inundated with glimpses of so many cities (along with the landscapes between them) and knew that I'd only scratched the surface of each one; however, it didn't devalue the experience.

 

[Harvey]

The problem is that everyone here is judging him by their own criteria.

If he invented a sport that was nothing like skiing you guys would be ok with it. Because what he does resembles skiing, you guys are applying your own values to what he's doing. He's having fun in his own way. (James is he having fun?)

someone whose main objective is "quality skiing,

Right. He has a different objective than most of us.

Thanks for the piece James, a lot went into it. Would love some comments from FTOers under the piece.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

The problem is that everyone here is judging him by their own criteria. (...) Because what he does resembles skiing, you guys are applying your own values to what he's doing.

I agree. Each ski forum has its own personality and specific form of give and take. For better and worse, ^^ that is a longstanding attribute of FTO, going back two decades. And yes, he's definitely enjoying himself. I was impressed by his energy level and good mood. At that point, I would've been irritable, exhausted, and ready to fly home!

 

[jimk]

I'm still considering the different aspects of this topic/individual, but collecting thoughts. His mindset is so different, at first I thought he must be a professor of geography or anthropology on a hunt for research/book material But I think he's HR/Business, so I can't figure out his angle/interest in this pursuit?

 

[EMSC]

One thing I did note in the responses from worldskitraveler was essentially a laundry list of 'top' places he remembered from his trip. It felt more like he couldn't remember all that many distinct things so he had a hard time underpinning just a couple of places because they all blurred together. Perhaps it was good days on the trip vs top individual places?

Again, he could have far, far worse habits and inclinations in life and he is helping out, in a tiny way, lots of the smallest most financially strapped places. So in the end, he is a one of one and I haven't looked at his webpages since the first post or two as I realized I had no interest in his method of 'skiing'.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

I'm still considering the different aspects of this topic/individual, but collecting thoughts. His mindset is so different, at first I thought he must be a professor of geography or anthropology on a hunt for research/book material

The more accurate smiley is !

I think he's HR/Business, so I can't figure out his angle/interest in this pursuit?

Close enough for government work! You can look him up. He's the director of career services, which IMO doesn't necessarily have a bearing on this road trip.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

One thing I did note in the responses from worldskitraveler was essentially a laundry list of 'top' places he remembered from his trip. It felt more like he couldn't remember all that many distinct things so he had a hard time underpinning just a couple of places because they all blurred together.

Not entirely fair. I asked about the smaller joints that impressed him and he replied. What do you want, a book report?

 

[jimk]

WorldSkiTraveller: Collector of Ski Areas

6 weeks, 79 ski areas in 18 states.

nyskiblog.com

Interesting article. Nice job by @jamesdeluxe . My responses to world traveler's trip:

By the end of the article it seemed clear to me that World Traveler's motivation is "collecting" ski areas. I've visited about 100 ski areas, but generally when I make ski plans I have different priorities than "collecting". My priorities are things like skiing at a place where I can join friends on the slopes, seeking good conditions, or burly terrain, or ski at a new place/region that I've long been interested in exploring. I definitely tend to visit "big" resorts rather than small places, so I differ greatly from him in that regard too. Although, I've had some very fun times at Mom and Pop ski areas and held a season pass at one for 15 years in my young adulthood.

As a senior who has skied for 58 consecutive seasons I've experienced variety, now I prefer quality and the mega passes work well for that as they cover some of the best and snowiest resorts in North America and Europe.

I consider approx 30 choices (offered by a mega pass) as a big improvement for about the same money over the old US season pass model of one pass for one ski area, and then paying for a few days per season at areas not on my season pass.

The flexibility that World Traveler talks about in Europe where you can buy a day pass for $75-100 bucks and go anywhere you want that day is ok. For many years I did something similar with liftopia or other discounts to ski misc areas on an adhoc basis, but as an avid skier with disposable income to travel, I like the mega pass model better.

Sort of joking, but this guy is making a mockery of our lifetime ski area visit metric, which many of us proudly declare. He is adding mtns to his collection that he's only doing a few runs at. Whereas many of us on FTOL desire to experience many ski areas, but also see their highlights, signature runs and lifts, optimal conditions, etc., so that we can compare and contrast with all the others we've been to or heard about.

I loved World Traveler's comment about the sociability of American skiers compared to reserved Euros. I'm guilty!
Also, I had guys drinking beer next to me on Little Cloud chair today 25 Feb 2026 at Snowbird at about 11:15 am. I don't care for morning booze, but I'm usually glad to have a beer at lunch or apres ski. In fairness, those young guys visiting from out of state today had probably been up since 5 or 6am and were approaching their lunch hour

I agree with the nice community aspects of US base lodges and perhaps the lack thereof in other countries. However, Europe seems to make up for this with very nice on-mtn lodges/restaurants, and refuges.

safety bars - kind of a stale topic with me. I use them and just announce when coming down. All seems fine with this approach where ever I go.

retirees ski a few hours - this fits with the US season pass vs Euro day ticket approach. I have no qualms about short days because I'm using a season pass not a day ticket - where you'd want to maximize by skiing bell to bell. The short days are very good for extending the ski life of a geezer ;-)

He is definitely a collector at 800+ resorts, but can he intelligently discuss the pros and cons of the majority of them???

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Thanks for the thoughtful comments and it's interesting that his trip makes us revisit a number of topics we've addressed in the past.

Sort of joking, but this guy is making a mockery of our lifetime ski area visit metric, which many of us proudly declare. He is adding mtns to his collection that he's only doing a few runs at.

Yes, but it's a bit of a joke in the first place:

• Without a set of ironclad rules about what counts as an individual ski area and what doesn't, it's subject to "metric inflation," especially at huge interconnected resorts where some people include the various villages or terrain sectors, e.g. at the 3 Vallees, you have Courchevel, Orelle, Méribel, Val Thorens, Les Menuires (where, to be fair, each one is way bigger than most ski areas in the U.S.). An American example in the opposite direction is Park City. To me, The Canyons and PC should count as separate. Theoretically, what if Park City took over Deer Valley? Would the whole thing count as one ski area?
• Unless there's a substantial cash prize involved for "winning," the competitive/comparative aspect (and having to discuss ground rules as mentioned above) is pretty ridiculous. I truly don't care if Worldskitraveller lists 800+ whereas I "only" have 200+ or that Tseeb and Sbooker have drunk three times as many craft beers as me, or that I'll likely never go catskiing, heliskiing, scuba diving, etc. Instead of looking at a numbered list to help me remember the places I've skied, I've plotted all my visits on a Google Map with links to whatever report or article I wrote about them.

I had guys drinking beer next to me on Little Cloud chair today 25 Feb 2026 at Snowbird at about 11:15 am.

In 25 seasons, the only place I've witnessed that (quite a few times!) was in Utah's Cottonwoods. I'm reasonably sure that Worldskitraveller was referring to lift-drinking in the Midwest, which has its own specific ski culture.

 

[Tony Crocker]

quick overview

Make that a false overview in the case of Stowe,

Stowe is more of a piste paradise; it lacks the very challenging runs – and that's precisely what makes the area so appealing.

or Taos.

In the end, we're not sure how good Taos really is; the runs are rather undemanding, and there's not enough snow for off-piste skiing.

I am disappointed that James did not inquire on this subject, and I believe the way to go about that diplomatically would be to place these questions in an Alps context. Feel free to follow up, assuming you got his contact info.

Presumably he has skied Zermatt. Ask him about the expansive Hohtalli/Stockhorn off-piste. Would he ski there before February expecting any of that to be open? Crested Butte and Taos are a direct analogy.

In sprawling areas of the Alps, the idea of skiing one run on each lift could be even more limiting than in North America . Doesn't he think someone would have a very limited view of say, Val d'Isere/Tignes, doing it that way?

Ask if he does any research in advance before making these trips, like James, ChrisC and I do before skiing the Alps. Why wouldn't he want to learn basic info in terms of reputation for intermediate/advanced/expert terrain, snow reliability, etc.?

 

[Tony Crocker]

Sort of joking, but this guy is making a mockery of our lifetime ski area visit metric, which many of us proudly declare.

Excellent point by jimk, and likely an underlying source of our negative reactions. It would be like having Patrick ski every June-October month at Big Snow New Jersey. Would his streak mean anything in that scenario?

 

[Tony Crocker]

The Canyons and PC should count as separate.

I agree. They are lift not ski connected, like Arosa - Lenzerheide or Les Arcs - La Plagne. In my and many cases it's a moot point because we skied both of them before they were connected.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Presumably he has skied Zermatt. Ask him about the expansive Hohtalli/Stockhorn off-piste. Would he ski there before February expecting any of that to be open? Crested Butte and Taos are a direct analogy. (...) I am disappojnted that James did not inquire on this subject, and I believe the way to go about that diplomatically would be to place these questions in an Alps context.

My view:

I see Worldskitraveller's undertaking as a logistical stunt that happens to have skiing as its framework.

Instead of skiing, it could be visiting every In-N-Out Burger in the U.S. or every bowling alley that has a church in its bar (it exists, google it!). To me, it's fascinating due to the intense planning-and-execution aspect and that he skis (as little as one hour), takes photos, and gives a brief summary of lift-served places that I will never EVER visit (many of them in the midwest) but am curious about. For example, I had no idea about Chestnut, Illinois being right alongside the Mississippi River.

Ask if he does any research in advance before making these trips, like James, ChrisC and I do before skiing the Alps.

I did:

How do you research which ski areas to visit or do you simply try to visit as many as possible?
I look at the ski areas listed for a particular region on skiresort.com, make note of the largest ones, then I check their locations on a map. After that, I start identifying the towns and cities from which I can easily access these areas.

Once again:

Worldskitraveller makes no claims about wanting to acquire a deep understanding of a ski area's essence. In fact, he clearly states the opposite: the advantages of getting a quick overview of a place and then moving on.

It's similar to my 1986 Interrail trip mentioned earlier, the breadcrumb In-N-Out approach as opposed to a deep dive.

And this:

The problem is that everyone here is judging him by their own criteria. (...) Because what he does resembles skiing, you guys are applying your own values to what he's doing.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Sorry, James, I think it would be extremely illuminating to find out when, where and how he skis on his own turf in the Alps. I concede the point that he had an extremely rigid plan on the U.S trip and would not deviate come hell or high water, and further inquires about this specific trip might not reveal more than we already know.

So start off with the basics.
1) Where did he grow up and learn to ski?
2) Where does he live now, and what are his "home" areas that he can ski via daytrip? What are his favorites among those?
3) What are his favorite major resorts in the Alps, and does he take weekend or longer overnight trips regularly to any of those?
4) Alpinfans website shows him skiing lot in late December to January and in March. Does he avoid February due to job responsibilities or avoiding the school holidays? Or maybe he is skiing but we aren't seeing it on Alpinfans because it's not at first time areas.
5) Was he really skiing only ~25 days a season 2003-2014 or is that another misinterpretation because it's only counting new areas?
6) When did the "ski area collecting" project start?
7) Multiple areas in the Alps comes about naturally with so many lift interconnections. When did he start the method of skiing multiple areas in one day while having to drive between them?