question for anyone in mad river glen management

joegm

joegm

New member
4 days off this week...trying to figure out where to go...maybe someone from mad river glen can answer why they have chosen to groom, after saying on their web site that the snow is plentiful and the conditions are fine, every single blue run they have that would be a decent line for blue bumps?....why are they grooming quacky? unbeliveable :evil: :roll: .... they are supposed to be outside the box... different...unique,,,, yet they are fallin into the same old ski industry mentality of only moguls on steep blacks....un freakin real and very disappointing considering this was just not the case back in december,,, it's too bad that the people who make these decisions cannot see that it is not a badge of honor in any way to be able to ski it if you can ( just make it down ) ... the badge is when you can ski it well...and you can;t ski blacks well until you can ski blues well....and you can't ski blues well if there are no blues to ski...and as their web site clearly shows, there are none!!!! i expect more from mad river glen
 
If you want a direct answer from MRG Management, I would suggest an email here: ski@madriverglen.com

I am astonished that MRG is being compared to other resorts in this thread. They have knocked their intermediate bumps down two times this season. Both times prior to large amounts of incoming snow that will rebuild the bumps with fluffy packed powder instead of scraped down hard pack. This is sensational planning to ensure those beautiful intermediate bumps stay in nice condition. The only fault I see with this strategy is that Canyon and Waterfall are left untouched. Probably so as to leave a few intermediate level bump runs prior to the new snow that will reset the bumps. I seem to remember you suggesting other mountains, Loon if I remember correctly, should knock down and reset bumps?
 
first off, to compare loon and mrg is just ridiculous... yes i have advocated loon tearing down their moguls and resetting them... loon has to do that ... the amount of snow they get and the low level skiers they get makes it an absolute necessity if any decent lines are ever going to be had there....as far as i know, MRG has never seeded mogul lines....grooming them out and letting them bump back up naturally is not the same as seeding them....but that is not the point even... i have been watching their site very carefully ( mrg) over the last 6 weeks... they are grooming out the blues... if as you say, they groomed out the blues becasue of the upcoming snow or for whatever reason, why didn't they also groom out all the blacks as well? because that would be stupid obviously.... i have no problem with them grooming out the blues for a good reason like the surfaces have deteriorated to the point where it sucks... but if that is the case , then the surfaces would have sucked on the blacks as well... they are on record as saying the skiing is off the charts.... steve, you are spinning them an excuse instead of looking for a substantive answer to the very legit question.... and i did email them... 6 days ago... no response....
 
Joe,

A sincere question: Can you explain your passion for the bumps?

My thing is fresh, unskied snow. I'll abandon black and even blues, if the fresh snow is on the greens.

Hey I like bumps. But I've never seen anyone who is as fanatical about it as you are...would like to hear what you have to say on the topic.
 
sure , its two fold and it's simple

1) i want to be the best skier i can...i figured out about 6 years ago that in order to ski anything outside of groomed packed powder carpet, ie: trees, powder, steeps, ice and just about anything else we can get here in the northeast, if you can ski moguls well and correctly, you can ski all those other things with relative ease and therefore, imo, get much more pleasure out of skiing those things.... on the relative rare occasions that we get to ski them....many will argue this point about it being a rare occasion to ski those things....but this is where i agree more with crocker than with most on this site,,, east coast skiing is minor league baseball far more often than not.....the point is , when the occasions of powder dumps happen, i want to be able to maximize and seize the day if you will...good proper and correct mogul skiers have no problem slaying any of the above types of conditions... good bumpers who ski with good modern bumps technique as taught by people like john smart and chuck martin ( 2 of the very few guys who actually know what they are talking about when teaching bumps ) are the most versitile skiers on the hill... mogul skiers simply destroy any and all other type of specialized, if you will, skiers on the hill under all the types of conditions that a hill can present. this is because if you break down the mogul turn, for a purely technical stand point, and i mean simply one turn from the point of apex of one mogul to the next , the skills that are needed to complete that turn properly, are chunks and pieces of all other types of turns that one uses ,, be it on steeps or trees or powder or even downhill racing type turns....i want to be the best skier on the hill i can be for the simple fact that i cannot afford to get injured... i have to work and pay bills and provide for my family....i ski 50 days a year... i cant afford not to be the best skier i can .... skiing bumps makes me the best skier i can be.
2) keeping in mind my position of east coast skiing generally blows for the most part for the average person who cannot simply drop everything and go when the snow is fresh as you say, the average skier will catch what you like ( and what i like for that matter ) the fresh snowood tree skiing , probably about 10% of the time they go skiing,,, that leaves a big amount of time to ski , "the other stuff"..... and in the east coast the other stuff, as i see it is comprised of three things... 1) groomed out flat terrain,,, 2) park and jib skiing 3) mogul skiing
there is not really much that needs to be said about option 1..... option 2 is not an option for me as like i said before , my 37 year old body has to function and pay the bills, ,,,, that leaves bumps....

and there is one more reason actually.... it 's just plain fun :D ( if you can do it well :wink: _
 
Word around these parts is that the tops & troughs of the moguls at MRG were skiing pretty icy by the end of the day on Sunday. IMHO there is absolutely nothing wrong with knocking things down before a 12"+ snowstorm, especially when there may be another large storm following soon after. If you're a bump junky but like your runs somewhat moderate in pitch, then why not just hit Catamount Bowl or Lower Antelope? Besides, when MRG "grooms", they nearly always leave a nice wide beauty strip of ungroomed stuff on each side that is more than ample in width if you can hold a zipperline.
 
In my formative years of skiing in the late 1970's I read a few ski books. The first general North America resort guide I read was by some easterners last names of Miles and Jaffe. They were experts, Stowe was favored home territory, and it was clear that moguls were the main yardstick by which they measured expert skiers and ski terrain.

Times have changed. With the new equipment more of us can enjoy the powder, and those of us who enjoyed it sometimes can do so more consistently now.

joegm's logic makes some sense. If you want challenge and to improve your skiing, and you don't have access to 35+ degree steeps or the flexibility of hitting the woods when conditions are right, moguls are probably the best way to do it.

But I still think he's a bit obsessive. He was asking about the condition of Stowe's moguls on the same day powderfreak was posting sick pics of waist deep pow in Mt. Mansfield's trees.

And I would think joegm might want to consider spending his vacation $ to applying his hard-earned skills to mid-winter steeps and powder at AltaBird, Jackson, Whistler, etc. rather than to go west in the summer and ski the same bumps he's been skiing in winter and spring.

I know I was there on a T-shirt spring day, but I've never seen more mogul skiing on trails that I consider intermediate pitch than at Mad River Glen.
 
Joe, Drop everything and come to Stowe tomorrow. We'll take you to some places where you can put that good bump technique to good use in the deep pow, and if you're lucky we'll send you down chin clip a few times.

I'm serious.

porter

edit: hell I'll even give you a ride from boston
 
joegm said:
if you can ski moguls well and correctly, you can ski all those other things with relative ease and therefore........

mogul skiers simply destroy any and all other type of specialized, if you will, skiers on the hill under all the types of conditions that a hill can present.

Being from a racing and coaching background, I do agree with the versatality you get from skiing bumps.... and all other types of terrain for that matter. The key is adaptability, and the best way to get it is by continuously search for occasions to put you out of balance, to get out of your comfort zone, to volontarily ski side hills or to make a turn on a transition. If you play the terrain right, you'll get out of that comfort zone and systematicaly adapt to a new level.

I used to set up slalom courses down bump runs for the kids in order to get that adaptation. This way, you don't need to coach, the results will come by themselves.

Bottom line, now days when I get bored racing down groomed trails at Bromont, QC, i hit the snow park where I can get some adrenaline pumping, carve turns as I go off the lip and try to nail the landing.

Way to go for reaching the limit!!

But, carefull not to over do it with ''mogul skiers simply destroy any and all other type of specialized...'' this line. I find that destroy is a bit strong a word. Probably yes for most skiers out there but as far as specialized, well I would assume that most ski coaches would bring their racers in various conditions such as bumps and other stuff wich in my opinion serves as the best possible background for versatility.

Bottom line, I think we share the same passion. Every day out there, we try to reach our full potential and more without risking our lives...

Jeepster
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jeepster makes a valid point and i can appreciate what he is saying

on the other hand ,normally i agree with crocker just about 100% of the time, but as he said about me a while ago, he'll say it when he thinks im full of it...as i about him this time
obsessive? why is it obsessive to only desire to ski moguls but it is not obsessive to only desire to ski powder? or to desire to ski trees or the backcountry....why is it apparently looked as with less respect....???? :shock: :roll: :? that's a ridiculous assertion / observation that just perpetuates the industry's overall lack of respect and true understanding for what mogul skiing is and what good mogul skiing conditions are. the industry is very well versed on what makes for good racing conditions, good tree conditions, good park conditions, good groomed flat conditions... they are clueless about mogul conditions
it seems like 99% of the posters here aspire to ski powder as much as possible...i like skiing powder too... i just like skiing moguls more...and there is no valid reason why mogul skiers should not be able to ski at least one good mogul line pretty much every time they ski at any given hill...to quote glen plake from the greatest ski movie ever made .. " would you rather ski 2 feet of fresh powder on a big ol boring heli bowl ( long pause ) or would you rather ski 2 feet of fresh powder on a bump run "
my buddies and i are no more obsessive than any of jeepsters race kids trying to become the best racers they can be
check out mogulskiing.net if you want obsessive
check out the cats that made this from the 90's at killington if you want obsessive...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiuAkeJ56VY
 
joegm":1nmhf5rg said:
would you rather ski 2 feet of fresh powder on a big ol boring heli bowl ( long pause ) or would you rather ski 2 feet of fresh powder on a bump run "
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I kind of glazed over what the actual argument is.... but thought it was funny they put a knee surgery in that video.

Good quote though (even if from plake)... I'm actually a boarder, but as fun as big wide open powder turns are, I'd rather do powder filled bumps if I had to pick one over the other. Nothing like that feeling of recklessly flying over bumps - arms flying out like when you jump off the swing as a kid - 1/2 out of control - knowing there's something soft to catch you. They always feel like riding the trees but with less risk of knee injuries. After you skiers scratch all the soft stuff off and rut em' up though... that's another story. :roll:
 
joegm said:
it seems like 99% of the posters here aspire to ski powder as much as possible...i like skiing powder too... i just like skiing moguls more...and there is no valid reason why mogul skiers should not be able to ski at least one good mogul line pretty much every time they ski at any given hill...to quote glen plake from the greatest ski movie ever made .. " would you rather ski 2 feet of fresh powder on a big ol boring heli bowl ( long pause ) or would you rather ski 2 feet of fresh powder on a bump run "

yo joegm! i'm with ya on the mogul ski thang and yer fetish for em. skiing moguls well is just another aspect of skiing that is becoming somewhat of a lost art as is pole planting properly and short swings to go with em. it's so sad to see so many areas mowing down everything in sight so that the masses can pivot skid there way down at high speeds on their mantras or gotamas with there poles just dangling all over the place. "learn to turn before you burn" i say. moguls force folks to turn as do tight trees or brooks with tight trees. forced turns are good and challenging turns. i wish more southern areas especially weren't so groomer happy. i gotta say though that mrg has some of the best bumps that i've ever skied, the most rythmic and user friendly also. stowe, unbelievable! sugarloaf, bubblecuffer-sick!
love glens quote by the way. most folks would leave the bumps out of that equation cuz they can't or don't want to hack it and that's ok, more for us and chances are they'll be better formed bumps if they stay out of em. don't know what yer bump skiing on but, if you've never tried icelantics, do so. my nomads 140-105-130 kill it in the bumps, firmer the better. somethin about those skis from colorado, i won't ski anything else anymore even if their free.
keep em tight
rog
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harvey
i appreciate you putting that up and the acknowledgment..
there are a lot more important things in life to be angry about for sure, but the hipocracy of this issue is just astounding. people just don;t get it...even people on this site..they think they get it, but they really don't because they are not passionate mogul skiers...and that's ok...there is nothing wrong with not being a passionate mogul skier...there is nothing wrong with being a passionate tree skier, a backcountry skier, a jib skier, or a racer...there is no reason why we all can't have terrain to ski on....passionate powder skiers are probably , theoretically, the one who should be , the hardest to ulitimately please....there is pretty much nothing a resort can do outside of not grooming out and freshly receieved snow, to help them out...they are 100% at the mercy of the mother nature...
there is plenty, however, a resort can do on a REGULAR BASIS, to satisfy, racers ( they close trails, groom and set up pegs think nastar courses ) tree skiers ( they cut lines ) , jibbers ( they build parks and maintain them daily ) ......moguls well, i guess that's different story...
the post you put up just shows how stupid and ignorant people are
a few examples: the idiot who makes the case that it is a liability issue. what the hell is he talking about? please someone explain this to me...a mogul run with a jump is a liability, but an icy 18 foot half pipe, that IS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC is not...that is freakin ridiculous....the waterfall trail at stowe under the gondy, an open public run, is not a liability, but a comp mogul run is?...a tightly spaced tree line where one edge catch could result in a helmetless head smash off a tree is not a liability but a comp mogul run is? please, that argument is disgusting and beneath contempt.
#2- the moron who posted something about, why should they have a comp run , if there is no world cup contest in town?....yeah ok , and why should they have a park if there is no jib contest in town, or why should they have a half pipe if there is not a world cup half pipe contest in town? yeah that makes sense, build the halfpipe 3 days before the halfpipe contest, and then , tear it down when the contest is over...if that logic on the bump run is true, then everyplace should be tearing down their halfpipes after the contest is done...ridiculous...
#3 desire to appeal to tourists?....1 /2 of one side of one trail...probably no more than 1% for an average resort, of their skiable terrain...that's really gonna affect things? really!!!!
the whole thing is just ridiculous.. at least that posts shows it's not just me...i know it's not just me...the crew on mogulskiing.net is "crazier" :wink: ... i think they have for the most part, figured that trying to convince or educate people, for the most part, is a waste of time..
in regards to the original post point... i have no problem with mrg tearing down lines if they become junk....mrg is the one place i have no problem with not , on a regular basis , having a maintained , seeded, man made, whatever you want to call it, mogul run... only because they have , most of the time, good lines that form natually on some blues... but when situations present that don;t allow that ( ie that last 2 weeks of weather ) THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX A BIT....that's basically my issue with the ski industry ,,,,not thinking outside the formulated script that they ( resorts in general ) are sooooooooo used to...and yes , i think mrg does, to some degree follow a script... it's their own script and it's little different than the regular ski resort script, ( that's what makes mrg so good )... but it's still a script....when the situation warrants, THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX...THAT'S WHAT MAKES YOU REALLY DIFFERENT THAN THE REST OF THE CROWD... :roll:
 
1) i want to be the best skier i can.. if you can ski moguls well and correctly, you can ski all those other things with relative ease and therefore, imo, get much more pleasure out of skiing those things.... on the relative rare occasions that we get to ski them
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I would love to see the East Coast skiers to take a tour with Joe.

They could not keep up. You have to be actually athletic to bang the bumps.

The woods do not really require the athleticism since the penalties are not severe. You stop before you hit a tree. Unless Darwin kicks in. The penalties are almost zero - you stop and wait for your buddy and say you all had an awesome day at the end. Total BS sometimes.
 
ChrisC is a guy who i have known for a while " gets it" but because he doesn't post a lot , i kind of forgot about... :wink:
 
ChrisC":6kbonjm9 said:
They could not keep up. You have to be actually athletic to bang the bumps.
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No doubt low angle powder glades are far less demanding than bumps and I have less stamina now than I did several years ago when I used to bang hard scraped bumps open to close at Cannon. Just last week, Cannon handed me a leg burn in just two runs (they were two pretty sick runs, though). I probably could not keep up with Joe in the bumps. But I doubt he could keep up with me in the trees ;) Does it matter? No, not at all.
 
Ah I miss skiing bumps, still do on the board, kinda like riding a bull, tough when you fall, but beating a skier down a bump run makes me really happy.
By far most demanding athlically on lift served areas.
Who has the best bumps on the east these days. Stowe ,k illington, MRG, maybe north face at Mount Snow? I got really lucky when I moved to CO at 18 and meet kids that skied Winter Park, mary Jayne all the time, amazing world class. Good snow, and more importantly good snow preservation along with good skiers make good bump runs.
 

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