SLC, 2/24-26

[NeedhamSkier]

So I’m taking Tony’s pretty consistent advice for East Coast skiers, which is “if you’re looking for powder days, don’t book in advance, just get on a plane when it’s going to snow” So yesterday I rolled the dice, cashed in some miles and am heading to SLC on Saturday, for 3 days skiing, flying back late on Tuesday.

Saturday into Sunday is looking pretty good by all accounts, plus another shot on Tuesday maybe. OpenSnow is saying “This might not be the huge dumping pattern we were all hoping for, but there is still a solid chance that the Wasatch will see 2-4 feet of new snow between now and next Wednesday.” :-D But are you other locals buying that?

I’m traveling solo, so my objectives are in-bounds powder with least possible competition (yeah, yeah - easy to find, right?) With those priorities in mind, the initial game-plan is
- Cottonwoods on Sunday – either Brighton or maybe Alta (I love Alta, but know the competition there on Sunday will be intense)
- Powder Mountain or maybe Snowbasin on Monday for leftovers. Question – any thoughts on how much snow those areas might get out of this storm? Also, I thought I remembered that Powder Mountain used to have some kind of “local guide” service, but see no sign of it now. Did I imagine it? And if you ride the cat there, does it take you to mainly in-bounds terrain, where I could still ski solo with not too many worries?
- Back to the Cottonwoods on Tuesday, as I fly out that afternoon – resort choice TBD, dependent on whether it snows again or not.

Any thoughts on the ideas above?

 

[Admin]

Saturday into Sunday is looking pretty good by all accounts, plus another shot on Tuesday maybe. OpenSnow is saying “This might not be the huge dumping pattern we were all hoping for, but there is still a solid chance that the Wasatch will see 2-4 feet of new snow between now and next Wednesday.” :-D But are you other locals buying that?

I'd say so, although I'd trend more toward the lower end of that range than the upper, especially because last night's forecasted first wave was a total and utter bust.

I’m traveling solo, so my objectives are in-bounds powder with least possible competition (yeah, yeah - easy to find, right?) With those priorities in mind, the initial game-plan is
- Cottonwoods on Sunday – either Brighton or maybe Alta (I love Alta, but know the competition there on Sunday will be intense)
- Powder Mountain or maybe Snowbasin on Monday for leftovers.
Question – any thoughts on how much snow those areas might get out of this storm?

This first wave was forecast to come in on a southerly flow, which typically favors Sundance, the Wasatch Back and Snowbasin/Powder Mountain. As indicated, however, it dove further south than anticipated and is pretty much missing northern Utah altogether. The weekend system and the one on Tuesday are both forecast to come in on a cold northwesterly flow, which strongly favors the Cottonwoods over any others.

Also, I thought I remembered that Powder Mountain used to have some kind of “local guide” service, but see no sign of it now. Did I imagine it?

I'm unaware of it.

And if you ride the cat there, does it take you to mainly in-bounds terrain, where I could still ski solo with not too many worries?

Yes, although in-bounds in the sense that it's only served by the cat or skinning up the cat road. Between the wait time and the ride up you should find plenty of time to make a new friend or two. :wink: Just don't traverse too far north from the cat drop-off or you may well find yourself in uncontrolled, out of bounds terrain -- I've found that the boundary out there isn't always reliably marked.

Back to the Cottonwoods on Tuesday, as I fly out that afternoon – resort choice TBD, dependent on whether it snows again or not.

Note that contrary to popular perception, it takes the same or less time to reach the airport from Snowbasin as it does from the Cottonwoods, assuming that I-15 through Davis County isn't a cluster.

 

[flyover]

Over the years, I’ve had pretty good luck scoring all-day untracked during and/or immediately after storms at Solitude or Snowbasin (especially on weekdays) and then heading to Powder Mountain for leftovers on subsequent days. IMO, you’ll find far fewer quality leftover lines at Snowbasin a day or two after a storm than at Powder Mountain.

One caveat: this method only makes sense if snowfall between the various resorts is acceptably equivalent to your standards, so know your storm totals before you head out the door in the morning. Personally, because I place a greater value on lower competition for fresh lines than some locals might, I know I’m more likely to be happy skiing 10-12” that may have fallen at Snowbasin than 16-20” that may have fallen at Alta. On the other hand, I‘ll end up wishing I was jostling with the horde at Alta if they’re plundering 12” while I’m trying vainly not to hit bottom in 6” somewhere else.

As to maximizing fresh tracks at Powder Mountain, here’s what I wrote in response to a similar post in 2009:

“Aspect, as (almost) always in Utah is important to consider and PM has a little of everything. I think the area can be confusing for the first-time skier. In order to choose the shadiest aspects, IMO its worth: (1) looking at the place on google earth before you go, (2) talking to the guides/hospitality folks who seem to mill about the ticket window area in the morning so as to get a good understanding of powder country, lightening ridge, and outer reaches of cobabe, and (3) carefully watching the sun and maybe even taking a peek at a compass as you ski around the area in the morning so that you can strategically plan the rest of your day.”

After I posted the above, Marc_C also mentioned the importance of considering the wind history as well. Good advice. (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7551)

Since that post, I’ve skied another 5 or 6 days very satisfying days of left-over freshies at Powder Mountain. PM is truly vast and multi-faceted. Assuming you are comfortable in trees and the weather hasn’t been super warm, if you use your eyes, think critically about the terrain and are willing to explore and traverse, you should be able to find a great deal of untracked days after the last storm. At PM at least, I can’t overemphasize how helpful it is to consult a compass as you ski around. While the area is not oriented to the North, there are a lot more North(ish)-facing aspects than the trail map or a peek at google earth might lead you to believe. Over my 10-12 or so lifetime days at PM (all between mid-February and mid-March), I’ve been consistently surprised by the good snow preservation there. I can’t say the same for my day-after experiences at Snowbasin. You should NOT expect to ski a lot of vertical feet over the course of the day at PM, but IMO it is entirely reasonable to expect to score some significant untracked on almost every run 2-3 days after the last storm.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Very sound advice from flyover above. Don't lock yourself into a fixed plan. Look at the storm totals. Many times LCC will be the only place with enough new snow for true powder flotation so it's best to go there despite the competition. If there's 1+ foot at Snowbasin I'd be strongly tempted by that. And Powder Mt for the second day is very likely to give you the most untracked. The other thing to watch for is that sometimes there's some AltaBird terrain that doesn't get open the first day after a storm.

 

[NeedhamSkier]

Great advice, as always on this board - thanks, guys. So I'm still keeping my options open. Unfortunately, as admin said the first wave was a little less than anticipated and Opensnow has dialed back the forecast for the weekend a little also :-(.

Which is the best source for actual snow accumulations at each resort? Do I take the resort's info at face value or do you think there are some which have a tendency to over-report? (maybe that's more of an Eastern problem) Or is there another more impartial option which you guys use? But if I end up heading over to PowMow, i will definitely have compass in hand.

Also, putting terrain aside, what do you guys think about crowds on a snowy Sunday at Brighton Vs Alta? Am i kidding myself to think that Brighton will be a good bit quieter with less competition? I know Solitude is another option, but I'm not a big fan of Honeycomb and just find it a tougher mountain to figure out.

 

[Admin]

Which is the best source for actual snow accumulations at each resort? Do I take the resort's info at face value or do you think there are some which have a tendency to over-report? (maybe that's more of an Eastern problem)

It is. With one notable exception that I won't identify publicly, the resort reports are accurate. Besides that the MesoWest Snotels don't lie.

Also, putting terrain aside

Why would you do that?

Stop over thinking it. Just go, do what you want to do and have fun.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II using Tapatalk 2

 

[NeedhamSkier]

NeedhamSkier wrote:
Also, putting terrain aside

Why would you do that?

The question was really weighing Alta’s bigger area/bigger crowds with Brighton’s smaller area/lesser crowds, so I’m not completely putting terrain aside, just trying to figure out if the trade-off is worth it.

Stop over thinking it. Just go, do what you want to do and have fun.

Yes, partly my personality but also an affliction of the 10-20 day a year, East coast skier with a family. One trip out West this year, one real chance to get some powder, so I just can't help but try and maximize the odds. Planning trips is my crack (and it’s not the worst addiction) plus the opinions on this board are always good to hear.

But I do remember well from my one year ski-bumming that great feeling that "if today’s no good, well there’s always tomorrow…" It totally changes your attitude - ahh, those were the days. But you’re right – I know I’m going to enjoy it, whatever happens. \/

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Brighton's Millicent terrain should not be discounted on a powder day.

 

[Evren]

Do I take the resort's info at face value or do you think there are some which have a tendency to over-report?

I'd highly suspect Park City MR is the over-reporter. They measure at the ridge with BCC and most of the resort is not just lower but quite a distance from Jupiter Peak.
Snowbasin has the exact opposite happen. They measure 1/3rd up the mountain which is mighty decent of them but the upper areas (above Jean-Paul, especially) get much more snow. Not just due to elevation but by virtue of being just this side of the ridge from the predominant flow direction, I suspect.
When you look at radar, there is often a North-South narrow string of echo in the Northern Wasatch, covering that ridge. I suspect sometimes it is a phantom but today, that is how it snowed.
Snowbasin reported 5 inches. Another 2(?) fell during the day. But the Mt Allen Tram terrain had at least a foot. In up to knees and enough for faceshots, whatever that amount is.

 

[Evren]

Was taking a nightcap of wasatchsnowforecast.com and this seemed like good advice:

"If you are looking for the best place to ski this weekend, you might consider Snowbasin or PowMow on Saturday and the Cottonwoods on Sunday. Tomorrow’s front will move through the north first, so ‘Basin and PowMow will get more snow early in the day, and the winds should die down quicker there. The Cottonwoods will benefit from good orographics and hopefully some lake effect on Saturday night and should be money on Sunday. Just my two cents . . ."

 

[NeedhamSkier]

Okay, so Brighton and Solitude are both reporting 0" new snow on their websites... :-s I figure one website may not be updated, but it seems strange that they are both reporting that at 8pm after a full day of snow. Meanwhile PowMow is reporting 2", but it looks like that was as of 5am this morning, which is possible. Took a look at the Mesowest Snotels, but my local knowledge and meterological skills were a little lacking to figure that out.

Anyways, I think my plan is still to head to Brighton tomorrow (but if it really is 0" of new snow, this is easily going to qualify as the bonehead move of all time...) But something tells me that is not the case.

 

[Evren]

These are the totals from today:

SNOWBASIN-MID. BOWL - 7402 FT 5 PM SAT --- 20.0
ALTA UDOT - 8799 FT 4 PM SAT --- 8.5
BRIGHTON CREST - 9500 FT 3 PM SAT --- 7.0

Here is the link:
http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/total_forecast/getprod.php?wfo=slc&pil=PNS&sid=SLC&version=0

The resorts update their numbers in the early morning for the last 24 hours. You can see them all at once here:
http://www.skiutah.com/winter/snow_report/utah-ski-areas/snow-report

 

[NeedhamSkier]

Very useful link - thank you. Looks like Snowbasin is the clear winner today, but from Admin's reports it sounds like the Cottonwoods were pretty good and are catching up tonight

 

[Admin]

Very useful link - thank you. Looks like Snowbasin is the clear winner today, but from Admin's reports it sounds like the Cottonwoods were pretty good and are catching up tonight

Likely. The Lake effect is setting up nicely in this direction and I'm comfortably ensconced at Snowbird for the night. Getting up here in the morning, however, could be a total junk show

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II using Tapatalk 2

 

[Evren]

Well, I'd go with Snowbasin for tomorrow. Most of that snow came after noon, when many of the local powderhounds had left. And it was still snowing at 4:30 when I stopped, exhausted and very very happy. Just skiing obvious lines off of Jean-Paul, everything freshened up with each run -- adding up to big body pillows by 3pm. And much of the advanced areas up top never opened or, closed in the afternoon.

I think there will be plenty of snow everywhere tomorrow morning. And snow being plenty, you know my preference. There will also be many people (there were, this morning). But Snowbasin on a "crowded" day is much more manageable, all around. I also made it home on time. More importantly, I know I'll make it back there when I want to, tomorrow morning.

I've only skied Brighton once. It's not bad at all, just not where I'd want to be on vacation.

Check the reports, make up your own mind.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I'd highly suspect Park City MR is the over-reporter. They measure at the ridge with BCC and most of the resort is not just lower but quite a distance from Jupiter Peak.
Snowbasin has the exact opposite happen. They measure 1/3rd up the mountain which is mighty decent of them but the upper areas (above Jean-Paul, especially) get much more snow. Not just due to elevation but by virtue of being just this side of the ridge from the predominant flow direction, I suspect.

I agree with this assessment. I think the Jupiter snow data is legitimate; just keep in mind that it applies to about 10% of Park City's terrain. Summit House snowfall is about 3/4 of Jupiter's. Snowfall then declines rapidly moving towards the base area, which gets about half of what Summit House does.

 

[Admin]

Well, I'd go with Snowbasin for tomorrow.

<snip>

Check the reports, make up your own mind.

Given the way that the lake effect shut off last night, which I certainly didn't expect, I completely agree. Combine 20"with this morning's road closure in LCC and Snowbasin is the obvious choice. Were I not typing this right now from the Cliff I'd be driving North, too.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II using Tapatalk 2

 

[NeedhamSkier]

Yes, Snowbasin had made sense for all those reasons, so that was my choice. Took advantage of the ability to make a decision morning of. Report to follow.

 

[TRam]

[quoEvren wrote:
I'd highly suspect Park City MR is the over-reporter. They measure at the ridge with BCC and most of the resort is not just lower but quite a distance from Jupiter Peak.
Snowbasin has the exact opposite happen. They measure 1/3rd up the mountain which is mighty decent of them but the upper areas (above Jean-Paul, especially) get much more snow. Not just due to elevation but by virtue of being just this side of the ridge from the predominant flow direction, I suspect.

I agree with this assessment. I think the Jupiter snow data is legitimate; just keep in mind that it applies to about 10% of Park City's terrain. Summit House snowfall is about 3/4 of Jupiter's. Snowfall then declines rapidly moving towards the base area, which gets about half of what Summit House does.
te][/quote]

I will say as I've taken the measurements at summit house and witnessed up at Jupiter that the locations of the snow plots are very accurate and legit. In fact they are both flanked by trees and I personally think the mountian can receive more snow then they advertise some days. This latest storm produced a lot of wind which blew snow off prone areas and compacted it in others good skiing but nothing like I saw reported in lcc and snow basin powmow. FYI caynons reported 8" and pcmr 7" today