The Where Have the Moguls Gone Debate, 2009 Version

[joegm]

KMS trains on a seeded bump run. It is closed to the public because the hackers would destroy it in minutes.
Killington can't seed Chute. They need those intermediate acres for their mass market business. If they sacrificed that kind of terrain to make JoeGM happy, they'd go out of business. I personally would be happy with it but I'll bet Nyberg and Temple would call it stupid and rediculous.
Killington has been screwing with the mountain in an attempt to bring their customers back. I personally doubt that adding seeded bump runs will have any impact. Killington is already loaded with ungroomed terrain relative to their competition to the south. There is little point in catering to a market that already drives farther north to get the better skiing surface on the ungroomed terrain. I'm trying to imagine any MRG season pass holder suddenly deciding that they want to change to Killington.

ahh Geoff, you are just so full of it on this it is stunning... a public bump course ON A BLUE SQUARE would not be destroyed in minutes...that is just a really dumb statement and it shows you are biased against the idea ( for whatever reason ) a week to 10 days ? yes that would get hacked up pretty good... and then, guess what geoff, you reshape it and or set it again... JUST LIKE THEY DO EVERY FRIGGIN DAY IN THE PARK AND PIPE...Just like KMS does on their BLACK DIAMOND COURSE every time they use it....no one is asking K to reset , buff out the course every day.. it's once every 10 days Geoff....they can't use 1/3 of one single trail (out of 150 to 200) like chute with out it affecting their mass marketing business?... what are you talking about?.. how can you make that statement with a straight face?.. they would not be sacrificing it to make joegm happy ... they would be making many many many skiers who can't afford to hurt themselves in the park and pipe but are looking for a little variety in their skiing other than boring ass groomers, or garbage like ovation and all the other super steep blacks that are in fact garbage at least 50% of the time because of the fact that we are in new england... these skiers are not going to go into nyberg's office and pound on the desk ...but there is no doubt they would be happy with the option if it was there....u have a fundamental misunderstanding between " ungroomed terrain " and " mogul terrain" ...THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING... but you don't get that cause you could care less about GOOD bumps...and you obviously don't want to get it....what is it you can't see about what marc C wrote?....the hackers , as you call them, are hackers because it's ovation and fiddle far too often for the only option...those trails are great when they are right... they are right well less than 50 % of the time... why do U hate moguls so much and more importantly, why are you so against providing good terrain to learn them on, even when the terrain being asked for would take up less than 1% of the skiable terrain on the hill?

 

[joegm]

I the utility of them for sharpening ski technique.

I agree with this statement. However, the thing that brought my skiing to a new level of both confidence and ability was learning telemark 7 years ago. I know of a ski coach in JH who required all of his racers to learn and run gates on telemark to sharpen balance and edge control. I tried it and loved it immediately after 35 years of alpine. Now I do both, depending on conditions.
=D>

if there are any skiers that are more legit than good bumpers on the the hill, they are the telemarkers....and don't even ask me about telies who ski bumps...talk about the cream of the crop =D> =D> =D>

 

[jamesdeluxe]

I posted this for joegm a few weeks ago, but he didn't bite:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8177

 

[Tony Crocker]

don't even ask me about telies who ski bumps...talk about the cream of the crop

I saw quite a few of those the day I was at Mad River. I still don't understand why joegm doesn't spend more time there.

 

[icelanticskier]

ahh Geoff, you are just so full of it on this it is stunning... a public bump course ON A BLUE SQUARE would not be destroyed in minutes...that is just a really dumb statement and it shows you are biased against the idea ( for whatever reason ) a week to 10 days ? yes that would get hacked up pretty good... and then, guess what geoff, you reshape it and or set it again... JUST LIKE THEY DO EVERY FRIGGIN DAY IN THE PARK AND PIPE...Just like KMS does on their BLACK DIAMOND COURSE every time they use it....no one is asking K to reset , buff out the course every day.. it's once every 10 days Geoff....they can't use 1/3 of one single trail (out of 150 to 200) like chute with out it affecting their mass marketing business?... what are you talking about?.. how can you make that statement with a straight face?.. they would not be sacrificing it to make joegm happy ... they would be making many many many skiers who can't afford to hurt themselves in the park and pipe but are looking for a little variety in their skiing other than boring ass groomers, or garbage like ovation and all the other super steep blacks that are in fact garbage at least 50% of the time because of the fact that we are in new england... these skiers are not going to go into nyberg's office and pound on the desk ...but there is no doubt they would be happy with the option if it was there....u have a fundamental misunderstanding between " ungroomed terrain " and " mogul terrain" ...THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING... but you don't get that cause you could care less about GOOD bumps...and you obviously don't want to get it....what is it you can't see about what marc C wrote?....the hackers , as you call them, are hackers because it's ovation and fiddle far too often for the only option...those trails are great when they are right... they are right well less than 50 % of the time... why do U hate moguls so much and more importantly, why are you so against providing good terrain to learn them on, even when the terrain being asked for would take up less than 1% of the skiable terrain on the hill?

rog

 

[joegm]

don't even ask me about telies who ski bumps...talk about the cream of the crop

I saw quite a few of those the day I was at Mad River. I still don't understand why joegm doesn't spend more time there.

the answer , as i ve told you before is 2 fold.... the drive from my place is only worse than one other place .. the outpost called sugarloaf and 2 ) when it is bad at MRG, it is REALLY bad....that's not to say that when it is good there , it is just about as good as it gets, because it is.... but too often , it can be really bad there... often times , when decisions are being made, you have to make a calculated , odds driven choice...and that being said, i think i do actually spend a good amount of days there , all things considered... i know you are one of the people who " get it " on this topic tony... Geoff does not... if he just did not get it, that would be one thing.. but the guy goes out and not only makes arguments against it, but makes arguments that make no sense at all....with this specific topic , he just throws nonsensical BS stuff out there and can't back any of it up....and then, too boot, calls the guys who are running the mogulskiing.net site, " uninformed " .....the guys on that site are some of the sharpest, most insightful, mogul guys in the country....and King of K Geoff calls them " uninformed " ????...what a Joke.... :? I m not afraid to call him out on it... He knows a good bit about Killington ....he is clueless about this topic... maybe Geoff could post a little video of him skiing some bumps at Mighty K this year just to show us all how " informed " he really is compared to the ignoramuses over at mogulskiing.net....I won't hold my breath :snowball fight:

 

[Admin]

Joe, I'm at a loss to understand why you take to personal attacks to make your point. Geoff is speaking from a practical perspective. Whether you agree or not, whether he's right or wrong, he's entitled to his opinion just as you're entitled to yours. Personally, I appreciate the talent that bumps foster, but that doesn't take away from the fact that I hate the damned things and avoid them like the plague and that doesn't make me any less of a skier. You're diminishing your argument by resorting to personal attacks.

 

[Bluebird Day]

if there are any skiers that are more legit than good bumpers on the the hill, they are the telemarkers....and don't even ask me about telies who ski bumps...talk about the cream of the crop

I'll take the compliments as they come on this board \/ ... Anyone who wants to learn to make a tele-turn in one day shoud see Dickie Hll at MRG. Then after a fews years, go see Jimmy Ludlow at Alta to learn to ski the really steep and deep stuff. These guys know how to teach. Also, it's no longer a drop the knee to ground style with skinny skis and soft boots. It's all about skiing with your core in a more upright stance. Much easier on the knees and quads. =D>

 

[Marc_C]

Also, it's no longer a drop the knee to ground style with skinny skis and soft boots. It's all about skiing with your core in a more upright stance.

Stiff plastic boots, wide shaped skis, a bit more parallel in the turn.....if you figure out how to lock down those heels you might have something there! :lol:

 

[Bluebird Day]

Stiff plastic boots, wide shaped skis, a bit more parallel in the turn.....if you figure out how to lock down those heels you might have something there!

I tend to ski Alpine as much as tele these days. My tele skiing is really limited to deeper snow condition where you really get the full experience of the lower body position and steep angulated turn that tele gives you. It's a very cool way to ski, and for all you young single guys out there (unlike me), it is the best way to attract chicks in the apre ski scene. Especially out West. Even if you don't tele, buy some old tele boots with duck tape over the snow damn and wear them to the bar. \/

 

[icelanticskier]

Also, it's no longer a drop the knee to ground style with skinny skis and soft boots. It's all about skiing with your core in a more upright stance.

Stiff plastic boots, wide shaped skis, a bit more parallel in the turn.....if you figure out how to lock down those heels you might have something there! :lol:

truer words have never been spoken. i couldn't agree more.

you want good tele? i'll give it too you. way more new school than NATO will teach. this is me after 5 years of no tele turns. rusty i know, but you get the point. technique tames any moguls as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6korU8FgnM

how bout on my xc skis?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1h6OiJ6EbI

rog

 

[rfarren]

That xc ski video is incredible! How did you do that with xc-skis? There aren't any edges! Amazing Rog. I think I should go up to NH and get me a lesson.

 

[icelanticskier]

That xc ski video is incredible! How did you do that with xc-skis? There aren't any edges! Amazing Rog. I think I should go up to NH and get me a lesson.

they actually do have a partial metal edge on them, tip and tail with no metal for mid section where waxless pattern is. dimensions=70-60-65.

the best tele skiers i've ever seen and still do see are skiers in maine. vermont/utah? just not the same, at least from what i've witnessed. somethin in the water in maine. i learned to free heel ski in maine when i lived at sunday river many moons ago.

c'mon up to nh anytime! mid week preferably 8)

rog

 

[Harvey]

if there are any skiers that are more legit than good bumpers on the the hill, they are the telemarkers....and don't even ask me about telies who ski bumps...talk about the cream of the crop =D> =D> =D>

Josh Murphy of Unparalleled Productions has got to be the most incredible bump skier I've ever seen. His movie Free Time, unlike his other movies, is sort of an instructional video. The bump section alone in that movie is worth the ten bucks for the video. It may not be pure bumping, but it is completely exhilarating to watch. On some of these runs he gets air off a bump, clears a few moguls and then drops right back in, completely in cadence.

The trailer (link below) from his website only has him bumping for a few seconds around 1:02 and it's a tiny taste of what he can do. I think he may have been a champion in his younger days. Joe, or anyone interested...if you haven't seen it check it out.

http://upproductions.com/films/45-freet ... eel-skiing