I'm heading up to Cannon from Plymouth, Ma and wondering if anyone else is as well. I plan on leaving at 4:30 and will park in the Tram base lodge. Send me an email if you need another to make the 2fer. onice1994@comcast.net. Cheers, John.
Tomorrow 2fer at Cannon
- Thread starter zamboni
- Start date
Please post your thoughts on conditions....especially the grooming.
I skied Cannon on Sunday and was greatly disappointed by the lack of grooming. We made the first tram of the day and expected to find great corduroy on Tramway and Ravine (at the very least) as we have on many trips to Cannon. The conditions sheet posted at the Valley Station stated 'major routes' have been groomed. Well, if those two snow-makers off the top aren't major routes I don't know what is. Other than perhaps the lower 'greens', the only evidence of grooming I saw was one of the Banshee slopes. Upper Cannon was a rutted mess early in the day too. I know that snowmaking has finished for the year but I hope there isn't a diesel shortage for the cats. Our Innkeeper for the weekend spoke to us about the push for privitization of Cannon's winter ops. I haven't gone to the dark-side yet, but I can't imagine any of the big areas in NH leaving so much ungroomed for holiday weekend crowds. Believe me, I love Cannon for what it ISN'T....but take care of the snow we've all been waiting for.
I skied Cannon on Sunday and was greatly disappointed by the lack of grooming. We made the first tram of the day and expected to find great corduroy on Tramway and Ravine (at the very least) as we have on many trips to Cannon. The conditions sheet posted at the Valley Station stated 'major routes' have been groomed. Well, if those two snow-makers off the top aren't major routes I don't know what is. Other than perhaps the lower 'greens', the only evidence of grooming I saw was one of the Banshee slopes. Upper Cannon was a rutted mess early in the day too. I know that snowmaking has finished for the year but I hope there isn't a diesel shortage for the cats. Our Innkeeper for the weekend spoke to us about the push for privitization of Cannon's winter ops. I haven't gone to the dark-side yet, but I can't imagine any of the big areas in NH leaving so much ungroomed for holiday weekend crowds. Believe me, I love Cannon for what it ISN'T....but take care of the snow we've all been waiting for.
Doug, if you're looking for grooming and "great corduroy", in the future, why don't you go to Loon or Waterville or Bretton Woods?
Your innkeeper is also cordually invited to relocate to Lincoln, Plymouth, or Twin Mountain.
Quit bitchin' about my state park and my home town, and go somewhere else if you all don't like it.
Your innkeeper is also cordually invited to relocate to Lincoln, Plymouth, or Twin Mountain.
Quit bitchin' about my state park and my home town, and go somewhere else if you all don't like it.
Cannonball
New member
I rarely contribute to this forum, but will admit to lurking quite a bit. The reports here are always right on target, and the posters obviously share my preferces for mountains and conditions. So since nobody else has followed up on this one I thought I'd throw my two cents in. As requested - Thoughts on Cannon conditions:
- Friday. Brutally cold, with winds blowing directly up the trails. Conditions were fantastic. Great day for the tram and Zoomer. Snow was variable due to the wind, but without much effort one could stick to the shelterd areas that accumulated to boot, knee, thigh+ deep. The rapid changeover from windpack to fluff in some areas kept you on your toes, but it was well worth it. Only the most exposed trails (Profile, Bypass) were blown down to the bone. Highlights were Skylight, Upper Cannon, Avalanche, and everything off of Zoomer. Echo Woods opened right in front of us and deep stashes were everywhere. Waist high drifts on the cutover to Gary's were a blast. Great day to be on the snowboard. Lot's of skiers tearing it up, but a few were also chalenged by the variabe snow.
- Saturday. Plenty of grooming, which really helped redistribute the windblown snow. Cordoroy was some of the softest I've ever seen. On Tramway and Upper Cannon it was a challenge choosing between screeming down the cordoroy, or face shots along the sides. Still plenty of freshies all over. Skiers left on Vistaway was Deep. Tramline opened up late in the day and stayed open all weekend. I choose not to hit it up as I was still skeptical about the base in there. But several friends did hit and said it was in great shape. I spent the afternoon with a beginner on Brookside and Tuckbrook. What great soft snow to learn on!
- Sunday (the day of interest for Doug). I was on teles rather than the board. I'm still getting my free-heels under me so I couldn't tear into it like I wanted to. I couldn't disagree more with Doug regarding the conditions (although I wasn't looking for groomed so maybe it's apples and oranges). They had picked up 3-4" overnight which was a nice addition to the Wednesday dumping. I did find Ravine to by groomed and in amazing shape. The snow was still super-soft. Skylight kicked my tele a$$ with it's big bumps, but the snow was sweet. The boarders I was with bombed it and went back for 3-4 more laps while I licked my wounds with some bombers on Ravine. After rebuilding some confidence I hit up Skylight again and found the bumps to be big but soft and forgiving. Vistaway still had major freshies on skiers left. (Although it was the most crowded I have ever seen this trail). I found Upper Cannon to be in super shape. I didn't hit it until mid day, but it certainly seemed like it had been groomed early on (It certainly was bump free). By mid-day the cold front moved in and it started puking. Decent freshies were accumulating throughout the afternoon, and I saw nothing but smiles all over the mountain. If there was any downside to Sunday it was the crowds. Lines were long for Cannon, but still short by any other mountain's standards.
- Monday. A few more inches fell over night and by early Monday it wasn't hard to find 6-7" of untouched. It was insanely cold again, which worked out great beacause the hill was completely empty. I don't think I ever waited for a single chair. I was back on the board, and happy about it. Skylight, Vista, Paulies, Gary's, Hardscabble, were all vurtually untouched and all were spectacular. Rocket had been well groomed, and was so soft that virtully no turns were neccessary (although that created some scary windchill on the face).
Doug, I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience. You and I may not be looking for the same thing so it's interesting to hear that some people had a bad day when others thought it was great. I did head down to Peabody a few times on Sunday to connect with people. I found the grooming there to be in good shape and the trails to be holding up well despite the skier traffic. You may want to consider that side of the mountain next time out.
- Friday. Brutally cold, with winds blowing directly up the trails. Conditions were fantastic. Great day for the tram and Zoomer. Snow was variable due to the wind, but without much effort one could stick to the shelterd areas that accumulated to boot, knee, thigh+ deep. The rapid changeover from windpack to fluff in some areas kept you on your toes, but it was well worth it. Only the most exposed trails (Profile, Bypass) were blown down to the bone. Highlights were Skylight, Upper Cannon, Avalanche, and everything off of Zoomer. Echo Woods opened right in front of us and deep stashes were everywhere. Waist high drifts on the cutover to Gary's were a blast. Great day to be on the snowboard. Lot's of skiers tearing it up, but a few were also chalenged by the variabe snow.
- Saturday. Plenty of grooming, which really helped redistribute the windblown snow. Cordoroy was some of the softest I've ever seen. On Tramway and Upper Cannon it was a challenge choosing between screeming down the cordoroy, or face shots along the sides. Still plenty of freshies all over. Skiers left on Vistaway was Deep. Tramline opened up late in the day and stayed open all weekend. I choose not to hit it up as I was still skeptical about the base in there. But several friends did hit and said it was in great shape. I spent the afternoon with a beginner on Brookside and Tuckbrook. What great soft snow to learn on!
- Sunday (the day of interest for Doug). I was on teles rather than the board. I'm still getting my free-heels under me so I couldn't tear into it like I wanted to. I couldn't disagree more with Doug regarding the conditions (although I wasn't looking for groomed so maybe it's apples and oranges). They had picked up 3-4" overnight which was a nice addition to the Wednesday dumping. I did find Ravine to by groomed and in amazing shape. The snow was still super-soft. Skylight kicked my tele a$$ with it's big bumps, but the snow was sweet. The boarders I was with bombed it and went back for 3-4 more laps while I licked my wounds with some bombers on Ravine. After rebuilding some confidence I hit up Skylight again and found the bumps to be big but soft and forgiving. Vistaway still had major freshies on skiers left. (Although it was the most crowded I have ever seen this trail). I found Upper Cannon to be in super shape. I didn't hit it until mid day, but it certainly seemed like it had been groomed early on (It certainly was bump free). By mid-day the cold front moved in and it started puking. Decent freshies were accumulating throughout the afternoon, and I saw nothing but smiles all over the mountain. If there was any downside to Sunday it was the crowds. Lines were long for Cannon, but still short by any other mountain's standards.
- Monday. A few more inches fell over night and by early Monday it wasn't hard to find 6-7" of untouched. It was insanely cold again, which worked out great beacause the hill was completely empty. I don't think I ever waited for a single chair. I was back on the board, and happy about it. Skylight, Vista, Paulies, Gary's, Hardscabble, were all vurtually untouched and all were spectacular. Rocket had been well groomed, and was so soft that virtully no turns were neccessary (although that created some scary windchill on the face).
Doug, I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience. You and I may not be looking for the same thing so it's interesting to hear that some people had a bad day when others thought it was great. I did head down to Peabody a few times on Sunday to connect with people. I found the grooming there to be in good shape and the trails to be holding up well despite the skier traffic. You may want to consider that side of the mountain next time out.
Geez.......MY state park, MY home town. Sorry to come down SO hard on YOUR :wink: state park.
Who said anything about any home town? Who said the innkeeper came down on either side of the privitization debate?
You don't appear to understand I'm more pro-Cannon than you seem to believe.
If you've never experienced great corduroy on the trails I mentioned...well..what can I say? I fully intend to ski Cannon in the future and find conditions worthy of praise. Sunday was not one of those days.
Who said anything about any home town? Who said the innkeeper came down on either side of the privitization debate?
You don't appear to understand I'm more pro-Cannon than you seem to believe.
If you've never experienced great corduroy on the trails I mentioned...well..what can I say? I fully intend to ski Cannon in the future and find conditions worthy of praise. Sunday was not one of those days.
joegm
New member
doug you put up a post that makes no sense whatsoever.
1) you talk about ruts... how could there have been ruts?.. there is no way it got warm and refroze over the weekend, so everything i read in your post becomes suspect becasue of this assertion.. it makes no sense at all. are you actually trying to say that broken powder lines are ruts???
2) you talk about "great corduroy" ( some would argue this is a total oxymoron, but if it's what you like, fine )... you get to ski this surface , in the east, literally, 99% of the time....how can you actually post a complaint that they did not groom fresh snow on the one out of 100 days it happens on a significant level? what are you talking about ?
give me a break :roll:
1) you talk about ruts... how could there have been ruts?.. there is no way it got warm and refroze over the weekend, so everything i read in your post becomes suspect becasue of this assertion.. it makes no sense at all. are you actually trying to say that broken powder lines are ruts???
2) you talk about "great corduroy" ( some would argue this is a total oxymoron, but if it's what you like, fine )... you get to ski this surface , in the east, literally, 99% of the time....how can you actually post a complaint that they did not groom fresh snow on the one out of 100 days it happens on a significant level? what are you talking about ?
give me a break :roll:
riverc0il
New member
yo dougy, don't ski the weekend after a three foot dump (especially during a season of below average snow and crazed powder hounds dieing for some fresh) if you are looking for groomers. as lftgly mentioned, plenty of other options in the area if you want trails groomed out flat as a pancake.
if they left it ungroomed, they DID take care of the snow, and they should be thanked. you don't like it when a ski area doesn't groom powder? then don't ski after a snow storm, simple as that.Doug":36t0ihq6 said:
Depending on conditions during and after a storm, intelligent ski area management will know when and where to start grooming. I've always been quite happy with the way Mammoth handles this. From Cannonball's detailed report it seems that Cannon did a pretty good job this time.
I presume from Doug's comments he means "corduroy" to be the packed powder as opposed to frozen granular variety. But my impression is that there are numerous eastern areas like Okemo, Bretton Woods, Sunday River which specialize in that.
I presume from Doug's comments he means "corduroy" to be the packed powder as opposed to frozen granular variety. But my impression is that there are numerous eastern areas like Okemo, Bretton Woods, Sunday River which specialize in that.
My apologies, Doug, I don't mean to bash a new forum user, but you pushed a couple of hot buttons for a local when you brought up the old groomers vs. moguls debate, and the privitization issue is like throwing salt on an old wound.
A few local innkeepers, shopkeepers, and relators are stirring up the anti-State-Park rhetoric in town. Your remarks implied you got an earful from one of them. Their interest is getting rich, at whatever cost to the environment and our small town. They would prefer to see the hillsides covered with condos and trophy homes in every direction, the parking lots filled with Mass plates, and Franconia turned into another Lincoln, (as Littleton is on it's way to becoming another Tilton).
As to "my" state park, your profile says you're from Mass. I'm sorry, but New Hampshire is not under any obligation to operate our state park system for the benefit of foreigners from south of the border. You are welcome to visit, but you aren't a NH taxpayer, you aren't a NH voter, and you don't have any right to complain about my state's park management.
A few local innkeepers, shopkeepers, and relators are stirring up the anti-State-Park rhetoric in town. Your remarks implied you got an earful from one of them. Their interest is getting rich, at whatever cost to the environment and our small town. They would prefer to see the hillsides covered with condos and trophy homes in every direction, the parking lots filled with Mass plates, and Franconia turned into another Lincoln, (as Littleton is on it's way to becoming another Tilton).
As to "my" state park, your profile says you're from Mass. I'm sorry, but New Hampshire is not under any obligation to operate our state park system for the benefit of foreigners from south of the border. You are welcome to visit, but you aren't a NH taxpayer, you aren't a NH voter, and you don't have any right to complain about my state's park management.
Cannonball and Tony,
Thank you for your lucid responses to my original post.
To the other NH taxpayers and NH state legislature, I deeply appreciate the 'right' bestowed upon this foreigner to be able to purchase a lift ticket and tread upon your sacred state park lands. I now understand interstate criticism between MA and NH is a one-way street.
Cheers
Thank you for your lucid responses to my original post.
To the other NH taxpayers and NH state legislature, I deeply appreciate the 'right' bestowed upon this foreigner to be able to purchase a lift ticket and tread upon your sacred state park lands. I now understand interstate criticism between MA and NH is a one-way street.
Cheers
Doug,
Sorry, but these guys nailed it. If you don't like loose snow
1. Don't go to cannon right after a storm, instead go to Loon, Waterville, or Bretton Woods
2. Respect that not everyone likes mountains that overgroom (or groom well depending on how you see it).
Ok, so this
is ugly sounding, but since you really seem to miss the whole point of Cannon it is understandable that you upset a local.
<-- first post
hi all
Sorry, but these guys nailed it. If you don't like loose snow
1. Don't go to cannon right after a storm, instead go to Loon, Waterville, or Bretton Woods
2. Respect that not everyone likes mountains that overgroom (or groom well depending on how you see it).
Ok, so this
is ugly sounding, but since you really seem to miss the whole point of Cannon it is understandable that you upset a local.
<-- first post
hi all
Cannonball
New member
Lftgly,
I'm not suprised that you were riled by Doug's snow comments. And I completely agree with your take on the privitization issue (although I think the Govenor has soundly ended that discussion).
But regarding your "my state park" and "you aren't a NH taxpayer" comments, I think you need to be clear about a few things. NH is the only State in the nation that funds its parks exclusively with the revenues earned at the facilities. And if you you check out the finiancial reports (http://www.nhparks.state.nh.us/ParksPag ... Graphs.pdf) you'll see that FNSP, Echo Lake, and the Tram generate a decent net income(although Cannon itself and the overall system lose money). Those income figures represent a lot of MA dollars (not NH tax dollars). None of us like 'outsiders' denegrating our beloved backyards, but we're all in this one together.
Peace,
CB
I'm not suprised that you were riled by Doug's snow comments. And I completely agree with your take on the privitization issue (although I think the Govenor has soundly ended that discussion).
But regarding your "my state park" and "you aren't a NH taxpayer" comments, I think you need to be clear about a few things. NH is the only State in the nation that funds its parks exclusively with the revenues earned at the facilities. And if you you check out the finiancial reports (http://www.nhparks.state.nh.us/ParksPag ... Graphs.pdf) you'll see that FNSP, Echo Lake, and the Tram generate a decent net income(although Cannon itself and the overall system lose money). Those income figures represent a lot of MA dollars (not NH tax dollars). None of us like 'outsiders' denegrating our beloved backyards, but we're all in this one together.
Peace,
CB
riverc0il
New member
welcome mr. butts!bobbutts":2nnj4g2j said:<-- first post
cannonball makes a good point, cannon relies on out of state dollars to operate and would not be successful if only NH residents patronized the mountain. clearly any one paying money for a day ticket has a valid opinion.
but i think lftgly's points should be taken in the context they were made, that the doug's criticism seemed out of touch and hostile, especially considering it was a "powder weekend" after a big dump. the whole lame privatization issues that has touched of a lot of nerves (mine included) only adds insult to injury when ever cannon operations are being discussed.